High school Junior from NYC aiming for Princeton [3.8 GPA, 1500 SAT]

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Demographics
*(US citizen)

  • NYC*
    private school
    Female

Intended Major(s)
Interested in pre-med

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.8ish maybe 3.9 (I know weighted)
  • Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 4.08/4
  • Class Rank: school doesn’t do this
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1500
    Taking SAT again in a week to superscore so this may go up. Currently, 780 and 720.

Coursework

Currently in AP calc BC + 2 advanced classes (these are weighted as AP but no AP is given)

Freshman year: Honors algebra II (only honors class available) + Latin II (most advanced option for freshman year)
Sophomore: honors English, honors history, honors precalc, honors chem + other classes which honors was not available
Junior: AP Calc BC, advanced US history, Advanced Latin, honors English (highest available), honors physics (highest available),

Awards/Honors
3rd place in EMS cadet compétition
Not sure if this counts: secured 2 grants of $5,000 for non-profits related to mental health
National Honors Society
2 school awards (one science and one overall academic)

Extracurriculars
Editor of a yearbook department
Math Club VP
Medical society member
EMT
EMS Cadet
Babysitting
Youth advisory board
Non-profit ambassador (have been top ambassador x2 and spotlight ambassador for a newsletter x1)
I have a blog that I founded and write for
3 pre-college courses (1 entrepreneurship, 1 medical, 1 psychology)

Essays/LORs/Other
Unsure of these currently since I am a junior

Schools

  1. Princeton is my dream school but I know it is a stretch
  2. Stanford
  3. Wake forest (I have a sibling attending here)
  4. UVA
  5. UPenn
  6. Columbia

Mostly interested in Princeton but would love any thoughts on the other schools. Thank you to anyone who replies!

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Congratulations on your achievements!

Do you have any likely schools? I see 5 reaches and 1 that might be a match (which doesn’t mean acceptance)

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What is your budget for a full eight years of university? Have you or your parents run the NPCs for the various universities that you are considering? If so, can you handle at least the first four years with no debt at all?

Premed classes will be very tough at any “top 100” and probably any “top 200” university in the US. Premed classes will be full of very strong students. At Princeton the level of “tough” will be only slightly greater compared to your in-state public universities. The level of “very strong” among your fellow students will be impressive and might be a surprise.

Medical school is expensive. You have multiple very good public universities in New York that will prepare you very well for medical school. I think that you should include at least a couple of them on your list.

Your stats look to be not all that far off from a typical applicant to Princeton, or Stanford, or Columbia. You know as well as I do what the acceptance rates are for these three schools. UVA and U.Penn out of state are definitely not safeties, and I do not understand why either of these would prepare you any better for medical school compared to one of the SUNY’s. I do not know Wake Forest at all so others can comment better than I do.

You are a very strong student. Your GPA is not much different from my older daughter’s, and she is a bit more than half way through a very good DVM program. She is doing well and most likely will be “Doctor TwoGirls” in two years (except that her patients will be large furry animals). Similarly I think that you might well be “Dr Emma” in ten or twelve years. Princeton might help you get there, but one of the SUNY’s might help you get there just as well.

The majority of students who start off as premed students end up doing something else. I think that any of the schools on your list, or any of the SUNY’s, would be good choices to help you find some versions of “something else” that you would be happy with.

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I agree you have a lot of accomplishments and should be in the mix for Princeton and other top schools on your list. But, the reality that most people who have the right mix of grades, scores and ECs still don’t get in to schools with a 5 percent acceptance rate. So keep doing what you’re doing but you definitely need to add some targets and likely/safeties to your list. I’ve heard many counselors suggest that everyone apply to at least 2 likelies and at least 3 targets, plus any reaches. Your list right now is almost all reach. Good luck!

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Some other options would be

  1. Richmond university
  2. Case Western
  3. Minnesota Twin Cities University
  4. George Washington University

I’m open to other schools if you have any suggestions of safeties. My school has not done a lot of college prep yet (it starts later this year) so I only really understand what I have found through searching online. Thank you for your reply!

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I think you should add 2 suny schools. I would also add Pitt. Have you discussed a budget?

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I think this also will answer someone else’s reply but my parents have a fund set up that will pay for the majority of college. I will also apply for some merit scholarships next year (I’ve started looking at these but haven’t applied for any yet)

I plan to apply for ones around $500-1000 each and see if those can add up to help.

For the med school aspect of things, I would have to pay for it myself so I would likely work in college or try to get a scholarship then. Otherwise, I would take out loans.

Also, I will add those to my list. Thank you for the recommendation!

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You are better off applying to schools that give merit rather than applying to a bunch of outside scholarships.

What does it mean that they will pay for the “majority” of college?

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If your interest in Princeton arises partly from an affinity for its relative undergraduate focus, you also may like NESCACs, or similar schools, such as Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Hamilton and Colgate. If you continue your pace, you might find some high matches from within this group. In any case, you may benefit from mentioning these suggestions to your college counselor at a suitable time.

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A quick lesson on those $1K merit awards:

1- they typically do not renew. So you get a few for freshman year- fantastic. And then they are gone. You are no longer eligible for the next three years, and typically, your costs will go up each year.

2- Many of them are - in fact- need based, even though the sponsoring organization describes them as merit awards. I sat on the board of an organization which offered several of these- reality- I never saw a kid with a family income above 60K or so win one. It just never happened. ALL of our applicants were “meritorious” but some of the kids had truly transcended some financial and familial hardships- and those kids were usually first in line.

3- Some of them are a lot of work. An application, two essays, then potentially a “meet and greet” with the board of your local realtors association, the historical society, whoever is sponsoring. And then- maybe- you find out you’ve won $750. Terrific. You could ALSO have earned $750 with your babysitting gigs, etc.during the time you spent to win a merit award.

So eyes wide open. You sound terrific, but make sure you have one or two less competitive/less expensive options in the mix “just in case”. Macauley Honors? Binghamton? Both would prepare you well for med school as well as any other option if you change your mind.

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If you spend less than what is in the fund, can you save the rest and use it for medical school?

I know a couple of doctors who have told me that the other students in their program came from “all over the place” (this was specifically referring to undergraduate programs). We have seen the same thing in other graduate programs, including at some very highly ranked schools.

Having some money left over for medical school will be a big win if you get that far.

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If you need money, it comes from either:

  1. Schools giving to you - merit or need aid.

  2. Lower tuition to begin with

With a 3.8 at a private HS, you may be fine or may have no chance.

I’d suggest you speak to your counselors - they’ll know where students like you have attended in the past.

If you want to go to med school, the where will matter less - but yes, you do need the 8 year budget.

You can go to some schools for near tuition free with those stats based on automerit. There’s many schools, even similar in size to those you seek, that will give you money

Here’s one example (of a small program within a large school that would cost you maybe $20K a year - all in. Princeton is near four times that. Will they have a higher percentage get into med school? Yep - but is it because they are Princeton? I don’t necessarily think so. I think it’s because they had top kids to begin with - and those kids would likely be successful no matter where they are.

Best of luck to you.

But first step is get with your counselors - and develop a realistic plan based on your accomplishments, academically and otherwise (including budget).

McCollough Scholars – Pre-Medical Studies at the University of Alabama (ua.edu)

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Beyond your interest in following a premed path, have you considered the major that you may want to pursue?

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Your NYC private school college advisor should be able to give you a far, far better read on your college chances than any guesses you get here that are based on a tiny fraction of the information that you advisor has.

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“secured 2 grants of $5,000 for non-profits related to mental health” = could be a hurdle if related to your own mental health issues.

(I assume that the 780 was earned on the math portion of the SAT–is this correct ?)

Clearly, you are an excellent student; however, nothing else in your resume distinguishes you from most of the other applicants to Princeton, Stanford, and Columbia.

Solid applicant for WFU, Virginia, and Penn.

Should be admitted to Case Western Reserve, U Richmond, U Minnesota, and GWU.

Agree that you should apply to schools which offer merit scholarships if intending to go to medical school.

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Surprisingly, the 780 was reading and writing so hoping to bring up the math.

Confused by your first point about the grants. I know there is a large stigma around mental illness but the grants were for non-profits, not myself. Sorry if I am unclear.

What would be a distinguishing point for an applicant who goes to Princeton?

Thank you for taking time to respond!

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If you told me that money was no object, that your family could afford 400K for private college plus 500K for med school, then fine. But you’ve said that your parents cannot cover the full cost of private college, and that you’re on your own for med school. Uh-oh. Big problem.

You are a perfectly lovely applicant for any school, and like 95% of the perfectly lovely applicants, you will probably be rejected by the highly selective schools, including ALL of the Ivies. They’re looking for kids who bring high academic achievement plus something - racial balance (although we’ll see how much this has translated into the essays, rather than the checked box), recruited athletes, extraordinary achievement in some area that the college wants, or big, big donations, like a building. So definitely apply to all the reaches you would like, but plan on making both academic and financial safeties.

Alternatively, you could apply to schools which would give you so much merit money that it would be cheaper to go there than to a SUNY. This would be 3rd tier LACs, where you will not meet your intellectual peers. Or possibly certain public colleges seeking high stats applicants, like Alabama. If you were national merit, you could get a full ride at one of these schools, and put your entire college fund toward med school.

You must apply to SUNYs, and probably choose to go there. Do well there, and you’ll get into med school. And you’ll have 250K more left to put towards med school. You cannot pay for med school with a part time student job, not even with a full time job. You can take out loans for med school, which will totally RUIN you financially, for many years to come. If you don’t make it through, and someday earn money, you will be in debt for the rest of your life.

Of the schools you listed, you will probably get into Wake Forest. It is not worth it to pay 250K more for it than for a SUNY, and hence put yourself in the position to have to borrow 250K more for med school. Honestly, there is no school for a premed worth an extra 250K over the very fine SUNYs. Come out of Stony Brook with high grades and the other things you need to do for med school apps, and you will be competitive with anyone, including Ivy grads. Decide to do something else? You’ll have lots of choices, and you won’t be in debt.

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Exactly. The students who are strong enough (both academically, and in terms of determination and drive) to get into Princeton and then get into medical schools are also strong enough to go to a SUNY, do very well, and get into very good medical schools (very likely the same medical schools). There are very strong students at Princeton (or Stanford or MIT or …) and there are very strong students at any SUNY. There are just a higher percentage of the strongest and most determined students starting at Princeton (or Stanford or MIT) which is why a higher percentage of them later get into medical schools.

Exactly. The cost of medical school is a potentially huge problem.

I understand that high school students who intend to be premed usually change their mind and do something else. However, I do not like to see a high school student who wants to be premed put a big hurdle in the way of their path to medical school before they even set foot on an undergraduate campus. Also, some students who start off premed and change their mind end up in a field where a master’s is useful anyway, and if they have saved college funds with the intention of using it for medical school, they can always pivot and spend the same saved college funds for a master’s if this turns out to be the right path for them.

Regarding my comment about “determination”. Medical school is a long path and a lot of work. It is also expensive. To get accepted requires quite a bit of experience in a medical environment (which might be volunteer work – something you need to do while an undergraduate student but that might not pay). Being academically very strong is important. However, being very determined is also very important. I do not think that I fully understood this until my daughter started studying in a DVM program (which admittedly is not quite the same, but does have some similarities). Leaving out some details, I think that her determination and drive have been just as important as her academic ability in terms of surviving and doing well in the program.

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OP- time to drop the “dream school” concept, especially if you hope to have med school in your future.

Young doctors learn this lesson all along the way. You get assigned for your surgical rotation to a physician known as one of the best teachers at the hospital- but it’s a long subway ride and then a bus from your apartment. You have to decide when you’re choosing a specialty to pick the one with the best life/work balance, or the one with the highest compensation. You have to choose when ranking your residencies if you want great weather and a low cost of living (important because residents don’t make much), or terrible weather but a hospital and program with a reputation for exceptional mentoring.

The sooner you let the “dream” go, the closer you will be to reaching your goals. EVERYTHING in life involves a trade-off. Hedge your bets- fall in love (quickly) with a couple of colleges which are sure to love you back, which are affordable, and can get you where you are going. And then you can fulfill your long term dreams, even if you don’t start at your “dream” college, get into your “dream” med school, land a residency in your “dream” specialty in the “dream” location, etc.

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My point is that, once you enter the subject area of mental health, further explanation should be given so that there is no confusion regarding your involvement.

Easier to raise one’s math score on the SAT than English.

You distinguish yourself by how you present your accomplishments, interests, and objectives in your application. In short, bullet points are not enough.