High school junior looking to identify good OOS options

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Good day, all.

I’m a junior currently attending a decisively noncompetitive public high school in Arizona. I’m looking to major in electrical engineering, and I believe my numbers are relatively solid, but beyond that, it gets murky.

Here’s what I have going for me:
-4.0 UW, 4.8 W.
-Top 2%.
-AP classes:
-Took: AP World (5).
-Taking: APUSH, AP Lang, AP Calc AB.
-Will take: AP Gov, AP Lit, AP Calc BC, AP Chem.
-Expecting an SAT score anywhere from mid-1300s to mid-1400s, but expecting to raise it to at least a 1500.
-PSAT was admittedly quite awful; only a 1330.
-Hooked-ish? My mom and I immigrated from Iraq in 2015. Definitely low-income; first-generation under some definitions (my mom does have a bachelor’s from Iraq).

That out of the way, the picture gets less rosy when it comes to softs:

-DECA member for 3 years; got first place in my event at state and qualified for internationals this year, which is where I really hope to perform well.
-Key Club member for 3 years and I’ve been our chapter president for this year; outside of administrative tasks, however, I’m afraid I can’t point to a quantifiable achievement.
-On that note, I do maintain a volunteer commitment to a local food bank and a homeless community home; my work schedule has not made this very consistent, however.
-I’ve had a part-time job since late October of last year and work ~20 hours a week.
-Competitive chess for 3 years; committed member, but no accolades.
-Principal’s List twice; again, noncompetitive public high school.
-I will be taking some physics classes at a local community college over the summer and potentially into the second semester of my senior year if I can afford it. My school, frustratingly, does not offer any, and I’m looking to make up for the lack of an AP Physics credit.

Schools that I’m looking at:

-TAMU (OOS, so practically no chance).
-UC Davis (they accepted ~70% of OOS students last year, which seems promising, but I suspect engineering is a different animal).
-Purdue (no chance).
-Penn State (if I get that SAT where I want it, maybe).
-Ohio State (ditto).
-Little chance for financial aid at any of these, I’m aware, which might almost make them a non-option if I want to avoid debt.

To be completely frank, my state flagship (ASU) does have a relatively well-regarded honors college (and a good engineering program to boot) that I wouldn’t have many qualms attending (save for potentially limiying my grad school options). However, the fact of the matter is my mom made incredible sacrifices to get us where we are today, and I feel like I would be doing my family an incredible disservice by not going to a more well-known institution for undergrad. They’ve pushed me to apply to schools of a far higher caliber (UMich, Northwestern, etc.), but I’m keenly aware I’ve ruined my chances at these.

What should I do? Are there good options left for me or should my ideals take a rain check?

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I agree with your kind words about ASU. It has a good reputation where I live.

The primary concern I have regarding your out of state options is whether you can afford any of them. The various Universities of California are famous for many things, one of which is that they give almost no financial aid for out of state students. I think that you have a decent chance of being admitted to UC Davis, but very little chance of being able to afford it.

I do not think that you count at first generation.

If you can afford ASU with no debt, then taking on debt to go out of state seems like a bad idea.

I do not think that attending ASU will limit your options for graduate school. I attended a highly ranked graduate school for my master’s (Stanford) and quite a few of the other students in the same program had gotten their bachelor’s at a university that was ranked quite close to ASU, in some cases a bit lower than ASU. One key is that they had done very well as undergraduate students – excelling at whatever university they attended for their bachelor’s. Internships or research experience can help. Also, quite a few of them (including me) had some relevant work experience.

Perhaps the first thing is to continue to do excellently at high school. The next thing is to find out what your budget is. Then run the NPC (you will need your parent’s help) at a few schools. To me it makes more sense to apply to reaches that would be affordable if you get in, rather than schools for which you will be admitted but will not be able to afford to attend. Of course having ASU as an affordable backup puts you in a good position.

Also, congratulations on your excellent work up to now!

One more thing that I forgot to mention: WUE. Arizona is a WUE state. You might want to see if any of the engineering options in WUE are interesting to you.

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As noted by @DadTwoGirls UC Davis will offer no need based financial aid except any Federal aid you qualify and little to no merit aid. Expect to pay close to full fees at $67K/ year to attend. UC Davis has a high acceptance rate for OOS applicants but low yield rate due to the high costs. You might want to check at the WUE schools where you can get discounted tuition at the participating colleges.

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I agree with the others about not applying to highly-ranked OOS publics, as the vast majority of those are not going to get you to a price that your family will be able to afford. As @DadTwoGirls mentioned, you really need to figure out the budget (and I agree with the rest of his post, too).

Having a 20-hr/week job is a big extracurricular. Combined with your other info on your list, and I think that there are a number of options for you. Is there a part of the country that you would like to live in after college? What size university do you think you would prefer? Would you like to be in an urban, suburban, or rural environment? How do you feel about sports enthusiasm or Greek life? Are there any particular extracurriculars you would like to pursue?

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I missed this earlier. @AustenNut is correct. This is an important EC. This shows commitment and responsibility. Top universities know that some students need to work to help their families. This plus an unweighted 4.0 GPA is a pretty strong combination.

I would not give up on the top ranked universities that provide need based financial aid. However, of course “top 20” schools are reaches for everyone, and you need to make sure that you want to do it (they can be academically quite demanding).

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Run the net price calculator on each college’s web site to get an idea of financial aid.

What to expect:

  1. Most out-of-state public universities will offer little or no financial aid. (In some states, they do not even offer good financial aid to their in-state students.) Some may offer merit scholarships that could make them affordable to some out-of-state students.
  2. Many of the high prestige private universities (and some public universities) require both parents’ financial information even if you only live with one of them (check the school’s “how to apply for financial aid” pages to see if the CSS Noncustodial Profile or other form for noncustodial parent is required). Since you only mention your mother, if your father is alive, his financial information will be needed as well.
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You are a strong writer. I’m not sure what you think you’ve done to “ruin your chances” - PSAT isn’t a big deal except for National Merit and IMO that’s not something that is a big problem when it is “missing” especially in today’s post-Covid situation re: standardized tests. I do think high reach schools like Ivies may actually be a good situation for your finances but you’d need safety schools as well. I think other posters can help you find matches as well.

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I realize I asked you a bunch of questions, but I went on ahead and created a list of possibilities, sorted by my highly fallible sense of what your chances might be. These are all ABET accredited programs. I included two WUE schools that your family might think are more prestigious, and most of the rest are privates, except for UVA which meets full need for OOS students. So there are urban, suburban and rural options and from the east coast to the west, and from the north to the south, with larger schools, medium schools, and smaller schools. The percentages of the need met is from the College Board; what a university has done in the past may not be what they do in the future (in terms of the percentage of need met).

Extremely Likely (90+%)

  • Arizona State
  • U. of Wyoming, $6,930 tuition for WUE

Likely (60-90%)

  • Clarkson (NY), meets 90% of need
  • Valparaiso (IN), meets 92% of need

Possible (30-55%)

  • Union College (NY), meets 100% of need
  • Lafayette College ( PA), meets 100% of need
  • Trinity College (CT), meets 100% of need, but its ABET accreditation is only for general engineering, not electrical engineering
  • Syracuse (NY), meets 95% of need
  • George Washington (D.C.), meets 92% of need
  • Cal Poly Pomona, $8,613 tuition for WUE

Less Likely (10-30%)

  • Tufts (MA), meets 100% of need
  • U. of Notre Dame (IN), meets 100% of need
  • U. of Virginia, meets 100% of need for in-state AND out-of-state students
  • Bucknell ( PA), meets 94% of need
  • Lehigh ( PA), meets 98% of need
  • U. of Rochester (NY), meets 97% of need
  • Case Western Reserve (OH), meets 97% of need
  • U. of Miami (FL), meets 97% of need

Less Than 10%

  • U. of Southern California, meets 100% of need
  • Cornell (NY), meets 100% of need
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Given you are low income, your cheapest option may be prestige schools that meet full demonstrated need. With a very interesting immigration story for your essay, you would stand out. All are low admit %, but most prestige universities will waive application fee for lower income, so apply to all that offer engineering and see what happens. Best wishes.

PS - don’t write off University of Arizona just yet either, with your 4.0 unweighted GPA that will already get you free tuition I believe, and they are pouring a lot of money into their honors college.

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Arizona State is automatic admit to the campus and EE major for frosh applicants with 3.0 HS GPA and no subject deficiencies. The main question for the OP is whether it is affordable after scholarships and financial aid (if needed).

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You also should add Washington University in St Louis to your list. They are also a very highly regarded reach school that is committed to 100% demonstrated need funding to students.

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Thanks to all who replied! You’ve given me a lot to think about. WUE is admittedly an option I have not considered, and I will be looking further into it.

To answer some of @AustenNut’s questions, I have no preference for location. Smaller classes would be ideal, but they are definitely not a must. My main concerns come down to networking potential and opportunities for research, which is where I think larger public universities excel, though I certainly don’t mean to discount any private colleges or LACs.

On that note, does anyone have any opinions about Elon University? Their base tuition is quite high, but I hear their Odyssey Program is generous with need-based aid. I’m looking at their 3+2 dual-degree engineering program, which would allow me to transfer to (among others) Georgia Tech or Penn State to complete my B.S., but I suspect the transfer is not guaranteed. It’s also an additional year of study in any case, which undoubtedly affects the cost.

My family has repeatedly told me not to worry about the money when it comes to selecting colleges, but $100k+ in debt right after my bachelor’s is a pretty dizzying prospect.

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Also, you do not know financial aid at the “2” school up front. As out-of-state publics, expect high prices and little or no financial aid (PSU is not every good for financial aid even for Pennsylvania residents).

Pages on 3+2 programs:

That is a very high level of debt for a bachelor’s degree and would require parent loans or parent-cosigned loans. Find out what budget would be doable without requiring parent loans or parent-cosigned loans.

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Yes. This would be a very big problem.

One issue: I know of a few cases of students who got part way though their bachelor’s degree, borrowed a lot of money to do this, and then discovered that they could not borrow enough money to finish. They ended up with a lot of debt and no degree. This is very bad. You need to be confident that you will be able to afford to finish your degree before you take on any debt.

Another issue: Recent university graduates frequently make barely enough money to live on. If they also need to pay off debt this would be tough. Not having any debt can be a big plus when you get your first job. Having no debt can provide options that you otherwise might not have.

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There is very good advice above here. But let me give you some non-standard advice. Pick the top 5 plus every other need blind school you can find – something like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford etc. Apply for an application fee waiver to all of them. And then apply to all the ones that give you an application fee waiver. Write about all the hardship you have faced, and how you pushed through despite all your difficulties. All you need is one AO who has a soft corner for you. Then you are all set. The top schools often cover full need. Money will likely not be an issue. Chances are perhaps no worse than what the published acceptance rate is given your story, and your GPA. You just need to credibly signal that you can handle the load. A dual enrollment course at a local university may not hurt.

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  1. I would absolutely look into Questbridge scholarships in your particular situation.

  2. Do not sleep on ASU as a safety option - my son’s going to major in engineering in college and absolutely loved the school when we visited. If it wasn’t for the school pulling the full-tuition scholarship for national merit finalists, there’s a pretty good chance he would’ve gone there.

  3. I think you would have a very good chance of getting into most of the big out-of-state public schools on your list, but most of them are cost-prohibitive for out-of-state students, even high-achieving ones. However, if any ones that interest you offer competitive full-tuition scholarships, I would absolutely take the time to apply for them. You have a strong resume and a compelling story.

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It has been mentioned already, but I would suggest taking a good look at Lafayette in PA specifically. Lafayette is one of the small numbers of LACs that offer engineering as a separate major. I believe below a certain income level that Lafayette not only meets 100% of need but does so without loans. Another plus is that you will get the small class sizes throughout your four years. However, it is on the other side of the country, so travel costs are a consideration.

You do have a great choice in state at ASU, which has a strong engineering program and is hard to beat the value.

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Lehigh is better known than Lafayette for engg, roughly in the same geographical area. Not sure about the FA situation though …

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To knowledgeable commenters - is the OPs citizenship status a concern? It hasn’t been mentioned by the OP.

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He immigrated. So why is the immigration status a problem? He is likely a citizen at this point.