My son needs to make a choice for his final junior year elective. His schedule at this point is:
Honors Eng III (School went away from AP Lang starting this yr for the junior Eng requirement)
Pre Calculus
Honors Chemistry
APUSH
Spanish III
AP Euro (Offered every other yr for last decade. It is now or never.)
???? AP Bio, AP Environmental Science, 2 half year history electives
Question: In light of my son’s hope to attend William & Mary or the best LAC that fits, is it imperative that he take an AP class for the 7th class in his schedule?
He took AP World last year and will take AP Lit, AP Calculus AB, AP Spanish IV, an AP science and possibly a 5th AP, maybe AP Lang since he cannot take it this year. We need to help him make this decision over the weekend. He is an incredibly strong history student with an amazing passion for the subject. Going into his junior year he has a 4.0 unweighted GPA, 4.45 weighted, well into the top ten in his class. I think he is doing everything right to have a shot at his dreams and I don’t want to make a mistake here in his junior year schedule sabotaging his efforts. He is just not a science/math kid. He has a strong work ethic and puts in the work to make the grades, but his passion is history not science. However, to chase his dreams he will tow the line and do what it takes. Worried AP Bio may be too much because the AP history courses are taught by a demanding teacher, they are going to be a lot of work, often described by kids as the hardest classes they have taken, can be very stressful, parents of previous students who have gone on to top colleges say their kids were in tears over these history course, but I know my so can do it, though it will be a challenge… then in math and science he works hard to get his A. Maybe AP Environmental Science and AP Bio senior year is the way to go. I just don’t know. I know his schedule as is is going to be tough, but worried on paper it may not comparatively be challenging enough when a school like William & Mary looks at it.
I appreciate your thoughts and advice. Ultimately I know that it will all work out whichever route we take, maybe not for W&M, but I am confident the kid will find his place. I just want to do what I can to give him his best shot, so want to be able to give sound advice. Thanks.
Are the history electives rigorous ones populated by A students, or courses filled with C and D students just barely trying to graduate? Or something in between?
Does he really need 7 academic classes? The history electives would mean taking 3 social studies classes but if that is his passion it could be OK. I do think it is fine to leave AP science until senior year.
Since it’s the guidance counselor who rates your son’s academic profile in his/her college evaluation (degree of rigor is one of the explicit criteria) vs. the rigor available at the school and in comparison to others in his class, that is the place to go when determining if his schedule is rigorous enough. He should set up an appt. and tell the GC that his interest in history vs. his concern that if he doesn’t take the AP science, it might make it look like he’s slacking compared to others. The GC can then share how ‘rigor’ is defined at his particular school and what the trade-offs would be for him, if any.
If your son doesn’t like science, he’s fine with one science class this year and an AP science next year… Don’t make him take two science classes and a math class this year if math and science are not his thing. It’s better to take on more history classes.
I would end to agree with posters above that a non-science kid taking another science doesn’t seem like the best choice. However he is already taking 2 full credits of AP history. And has all of the main academic areas covered. Is there something else he might be interested in? What comes to mind are Psychology, Macro- or micro Economics, an Art class?
I have two incoming juniors (one poss Val in their class, so these are also high-achieving kids) and their schedules look very similar to your son’s, except instead of AP Euro, they are both taking AP Statistics (and one AP Lang). They are more math/sci kids, so taking 2 maths/1-2 sciences. One has AP Chem, which requires a whole extra period at our school, so that’s it for her. The other is taking AP Physics in that last slot.
I really believe that colleges want to see students explore different areas. “Great, you love history and do well in it, but what else have you tried”?
I think many colleges also like to see a kid with a deep interest in a subject, versus exploring different areas. He should do what he is most interested in and enjoy high school. In place of one or two of the history classes, he could also consider a class at a university (often online). If he loves history, maybe he could volunteer for a historical organization. I really don’t think admissions is as dependent on these conventional measures like AP’s as we often think. PM’ing you.
@ucbalumnus I think it is something in between. He actually took similar classes last year as an elective. New teacher, new topics this year. Same teacher as the AP classes.
@happy1 Exactly… 7 is a lot and I worry too much. Personally I do think it is too much. However, he is willing to play the game and compete for college admissions to get to where he wants to go. This is my oldest child and so this is our first go round with this. I guess the bottom line is, if only 2 APs junior year sinks the ship he will do what he has to do to keep it afloat. And I certainly hope that it is a ridiculous thought that only 2 APs sinks the ship, but honestly I just do not have the experience or knowledge to know.
@twoinanddone Good point. That is certainly the why he and I would like it to be.
@N’s Mom we have good dialogue going with the guidance counselor. That’s a good question to ask. The point the counselor made was in regard to admissions it could be that if a decision comes down between him and another kid the number of APs could be a factor. The guidance counselor does know that not many kids in the school could take these two AP history courses and survive it.
@SlackerMomMD and the kid just doubled in math last year and worked his tail off. Doubling in the sciences would only be out of necessity and it sounds like the resounding advice here is take the history, he will be fine with the 2 APs. I probably should add that he is augmenting his high school courses by taking a 4 hour college summer class at William & Mary and will likely take the second class that is part of the program next summer. Granted heavily pursuing history, but hopefully doing well in two college classes at W&M will make a statement to some admissions officers.
Thanks for all of the replies. I sincerely appreciate your opinions and advice. Thanks for taking the time!
S took Econ along with APUSH last year and loved it. The interplay between the two subjects made both of them easier to understand and more enjoyable. I’d go with that rather than another science for a non STEMmy kid.
Talk to your guidance counselor but I don’t think that adding on two history electives as a 7th academic course would do anything for his application, especially with 2 AP history classes. I would eliminate those.from the schedule and focus on the other classes. It is important for your son to have a social life and be involved outside of academics as well. It is all about finding the right mix IMO.
Other random comments –
-With AP English no college will penalize him for not taking a class that is not offered.
-There are tons of great LACs out there so he should be in great shape for a lot of schools.
I’m in agreement with this. While it varies by school and is dependent upon the teacher, the workload for either AP history course can be intense; the 2 combined (I get the now or never part) will be brutal, especially when each has a research paper due the same week.
I’m not sure a 7th course is needed, but if one is, I’d opt away from core academics and perhaps do an art class, or at least something that is not going to be over-the-top stressful.
Agree with all that a non-STEM kid does not want to be doubling up in science, particularly an AP which gets a low percentage of 5’s; who needs that stress?!
Can he take AP stats or AP geophraphy? Otherwise, go with the semester history courses or something like economics. How about study hall or an elective? Taking AP spanish, Ap lang, AP Chem and AP calc is more than enough senior year. Yikes. But I guess it does depend on the school and how hard the classes are in your district. Your son sounds like an excellent student. Ask the G to write that AP Lang not available to juniors in the letter of rec. It’s a shame because AP Lit and Lang not best taken simultaneously.
I would encourage him to take a fun class, such as art or music. Your school may differ, but my daughter took only 2 APs her junior year, had that “most rigorous” boxed checked by her adviser, and still got into some good schools, including Wellesley, where she is now a student.
Note that AP English literature and language tend to be mostly redundant for the purpose of credit and/or placement in college (though some colleges may give higher placement for a 5 in one versus the other).
For the science, is it really necessary to take AP biology or environmental science, especially as a double-up, if that is not his main interest? Colleges often look for all of biology, chemistry, and physics (not necessarily AP), so (assuming that he has taken biology previously), taking chemistry this year and physics next year would complete that set.
If he is interested in them, the elective history courses seem like reasonable choices. So can other academic electives like economics, psychology, statistics, art, art history, etc… Note that some of these are useful to know when studying history.
I would suggest: economics, statistics, the history electives, or starting a second foreign language which might be useful for history. I don’t see why a non-STEM kid should feel compelled to double up on STEM courses any more than a STEM kid should be expected to learn two foreign languages or double up in arts or history. At some point in your life you can’t do it all and you need to follow your interests. He should present himself to colleges as he is and not as he thinks they want him to be. Maybe look for some EC in his area of interest–National History Day?
The only caveat is that he may find AP STEM credits useful for satisfying distribution requirements. If that opens up the chance to take more history and less STEM in college, it might be worth considering.
On the other hand, science distribution requirements may be fulfillable with courses that may be more interesting to a non-major than a course full of pre-meds, if the school offers worthwhile non-majors’ courses.
Is your son at all interested in going to grad school in History? If so, it might be good to take another foreign language, as grad programs in history tend to value foreign language knowledge. Of course, it’s too early to know for sure if grad school is in the future, but I don’t think an extra foreign language would hurt if he decided to pursue something else.
Replying from Williamsburg on my cellphone so I will be brief and address all questions later when I can get to a computer. First, wow what a response from CC members!!! Thank you so much!!! My son’s dream is a PhD in history, this is his passion and despite all the reasons not to go down that road history is too much of a part of who he is to dissuade it. Unfortunately, the foreign lang offerings at his small school once were Spanish, French and Latin, but now only Spanish with anything else offered online. Hesitant about online foreign lang classes, but I do see the merit for additional foreign lang was hoping he could go that route in college. Will reconsider what is available to him that route but his school actually does not recommend students to pursue the online options.
The overwhelming majority and maybe all of you are saying no to the AP Bio and I hear you. You are supporting my desire for the kid to be more organic and believe me that is what I want.
As to available classes for the elective spot it is pretty much what I listed. AP psych, Econ, and others are not offered but some (would have to check) could be taken online.
The advantages that I see in taking the history electives are in further helping him prepare for SAT history subject tests and in being as prepared as possible for U.S. History Bee nationals which is a passion for him (national jv semifinalist last yr). On the other hand he could knock out his Arts requirement or possibly take Econ or psych or foreign lang online.
Thanks all! If I failed to address anything will do so when I am not pecking on this iphone.
