<p>So, I’m pretty sure I’ll get an audition at least (or I hope). I have a 3.8 gpa and got a 24 on my act, though i’m retaking it. I was just wondering if taking a more than 3 years of math is going to get me anywhere haha. I’ve taken 3.5 years of math and I’m in pre-calc right now. I was considering dropping it for either a Theatre Tech course or an Audition-Prep independent study. Any suggestions/does my math repertoire reaaally matter? Thanks!!</p>
<p>This is a really hard question.
If it were me, I would call and try to talk to someone about it.
Laura Hoffman, in the school of music, could help answer your question.
Here’s her info on the school of music website: [UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance - [var:‘identity’]](<a href=“http://www.music.umich.edu/faculty_staff/bio.php?u=lauras]UM”>http://www.music.umich.edu/faculty_staff/bio.php?u=lauras)</p>
<p>Just give her a call. She will be so helpful. I promise.</p>
<p>Emsrlyons, my son’s guidance counselor “let” him drop Math after junior year, and he had no problem getting accepted academically everywhere he applied, including UMich. (He had much stronger ACTs however (33), so you may definitely want to work on that, although your GPA is strong.) He, too, had been in Honors Math throughout high school, so we were comfortable believing he met most schools’ requirements, especially since he was applying for a BA or BFA program.</p>
<p>Would you say the same would also apply to science classes? My high school only requires two science credits, and I’ve had three (biology, chemistry, and anatomy). I’d rather not take another one this upcoming year.</p>
<p>For Emsrlyons:
While I agree with ShelleySings that you should check directly with the college, you will be applying to more than one college and so what you decide to do should not simply be geared to what UMichigan says. </p>
<p>In my opinion, more academically selective schools (UMich being one of them) care about WHAT you took in high school (not just the GPA) and prefer to see that you took the most challenging and rigorous courses that you could handle based on what your particular HS offers. While many here state their GPA, it is not enough information without knowing the courses and levels of those courses taken vis a vis what your high school offers. While a 3.8 sounds very good (but is that unweighted or weighted? makes a difference! If unweighted…that is a strong GPA…), it matters the level of coursework you chose to take. A 3.8 taking the easiest track classes or the min. high school requirements is looked at VERY DIFFERENTLY than a 3.8 taking the most demanding classes your school offers (such as Honors, AP, IB), and going beyond the min. graduation requirements as well. So, without seeing your transcript and your school profile, I would not venture to advise you specifically. </p>
<p>That said, if you were to drop math, you will have only taken up through Algebra II and not Pre-Calculus, let alone Calculus. Going up just to Algebra II is not that strong for a Michigan (or other selective college). I imagine they prefer to see higher, as well as have many applicants who have taken math beyond Algebra II. I would encourage you to go up through at least Pre-Calculus for colleges like Michigan. </p>
<p>Also, your ACT score is low for Michigan. I would encourage you to prep for the ACT and not merely retake it with no prep. The odds of being admitted to Michigan are much lower for someone with a score of 24. </p>
<p>While Perichack’s son did well in admissions without math as a senior, I don’t feel it is a good comparison. One is that he also had an ACT of 33. The main reason, however, is that we can’t compare the rigor of his HS courseload with that of the OP’s. If Perichack’s son took Honors and AP classes in HS, for example, and the OP did not, that would be a difference. Further, while Perichack says her son did not take math as a senior, I will venture to guess (she can clarify this) that he took math up through Pre-Calculus (or Trig) and not just through Algebra II as the OP would be doing if not taking math as a senior. That is a big difference. So, it is not a matter of simply taking math senior year or not but the strength of what you have taken in math to date (the courses and the level of them) and the rest of your chosen HS curriculum, as well.</p>
<p>i am going o give completely motherly advice, well motherly and as a University faculty in a completely unrelated area to MT. Getting into college is not your final goal here, you want to get into college prepared to be successful in all your classes there and graduate with a degree you are happy with. You will have to take some math in college and taking a year off of math will make it much more difficult when you must take the general education requirement. Not all of your high school career she be geared toward getting in- but should also focus on being as well prepared as possible. Like I told my kid - take the math class.</p>
<p>keepingcalm - I totally agree that HS choices shouldn’t just be about getting into college as a final goal. That said, not all MT programs at college require that you take a math class. Checking out the courses required of all the colleges you are looking at should be a huge part of which schools you like – this has been brought up in other areas. Do you have voice every semester? Dance? How many (and what) gen eds are required? How much flexibility do you have in choosing electives (if any)? And, as you do that research, you may discover that your present background in math is sufficient for the schools you at examining. Or, maybe it’s not. But, I agree as a mother that I would encourage the extra year in math over your other 2 suggested courses.</p>
<p>MusThCC is right that not every college requires math. Neither of my two kids’ colleges (Brown, NYU/Tisch) required math. Neither took any math in college! However, both tried to take the most rigorous high school courseload which is what a selective college would want to see (UMich is selective). It doesn’t matter what you will study in college. My girls took Calculus in 11th grade, in fact. Taking just up through Algebra II is weak for a selective school like UMichigan where many applicants will have taken PreCal/Trig and many also will have taken Calculus. I have met with the admissions liason in the Music School and she also verified that they look for a challenging and demanding high school courseload.</p>
<p>Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding guys, I’m not just taking really easy classes this year! I’m in Spanish IV honors accelerated, honors english, and a ton of social studies courses. My only “easy” classes are cinema studies and choir. I’ve also taken AP classes in the past. And as for math, I’ve taken 3.5 years (algebra I, algebra II, geometry, and trig (one semester is all we need for trig) and all of my colleges I’m applying to require 3 years. My alternative courses I’d switch into are either theatre tech (which is a really rigorous course on backstage theatre) or an independent study in audition preparation where I’d work on my college apps/resumes and prepare my monologues, songs and such for a semester. </p>
<p>I also have a pretty wide range of activities that I participate in and out of school like drama (officer member), musical, speech team, NHS, voice lessons, foreign language club, and am a cast member in the Illinois All-State musical.</p>
<p>I don’t know if I’m wrong to, but I’m focusing more on the audition and resume portion. Of course, school is still very important and I’m working very hard to improve my ACT score (though I know it is the min. requirement for UMich so that’s why I say hopefully it’ll at least get me an audition). My sister is a music performance major at Northwestern with about a 3.8 gpa and a 27 on her act! Obviously she did something right at the audition so this is where I get some of my hopefulness from!</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the advice everyone it helps!!</p>
<p>And also, does the UMich MT program require math? Most MT and music programs are very flexible with electives because of the rigor of the courses.</p>
<p>To give you some perspective, I was just looking at the HS course requirements to get into Indiana University which is not as selective as UMich! They are now requiring a min. of Alg. I, Alg. II, Geometry and one semester of either PreCal, Trig, or Calculus. While you have that, UMich is more selective and would prefer more. While you say your colleges REQUIRE three years of math, please be aware that colleges are providing the MINIMUM requirements for admission. When you are aiming at an academically selective school like UMich, your odds increase if you go beyond the min. requirement. Many applicants will have four years of math and will have gone at least through one full year of PreCal or Trig (many going beyond that). If a school requires 2 or 3 years of Foreign Language, the stronger applicants will have four or five years, for example. If you come from a HS that offers many APs, and have taken very few, that will not be as demanding of a curriculum that a selective school like UMich prefers to see. Can you still get in? Sure. The odds are lower, however, for those with test scores, class rank, rigor of HS curriculum, GPA, etc. that fall to the bottom range of accepted students to that particular selective university. So, the thinking should not be what is the min. required to be admitted but rather, what will make me a strong applicant in the pool of other very strong applicants to such a selective university.</p>
<p>By the way, the mid ACT score range for UMich is 26-32.</p>
<p>PLEASE NOTE FROM UMICHIGAN’S WEBSITE:</p>
<p>
***I added the bold for emphasis per this discussion.</p>
<p>Again, the min. requirement is three years of math and you meet it. But when a college says it “strongly recommends” certain HS courses, it behooves the applicant to do what is possible to put themselves more favorably in contention by following those recommendations.</p>
<p>As usual, Soozievt makes excellent points. Yes, we were comfortable not having my son take Math as a senior, but he had gone through junior year on the Honors track, and so, functionally, had completed the curriculum required for acceptance into even the toughest academic programs (unless he was looking to be a Math or Science major, which, of course, he wasn’t!). As well, the rest of his schedule was replete with AP and Honors classes, and his standardized test scores were where they needed to be.</p>
<p>It is imperative to look at all such decisions in the context of the entirety of your application. My son added a Music Theory class when he dropped Math, something we knew would both look good and be good for him.</p>
<p>I think you also need to have a handle on how a grade in any particular class might impact the rest of your application. I may be wrong, but a low grade in Math could drag you down, while you’d look better with a higher grade in another subject. In our case, replacing Calculus with Music Theory turned an eighty-something into a 100, and since everything else fell into place, it was a no-brainer. As always, however, individual mileage will vary!</p>
<p>That’s exactly my issue. While I know that having precalc on my transcript will look good, I’m just worried about what it might do to my gpa. I know I can get a B but at the same time, I have the option of taking a course where I can get an A while working on my college applications and audition pieces. I just don’t know which option will be more recognized by UM or my other top schools!</p>
<p>emsrlyons…Colleges don’t look at GPA out of context. WHAT you take is ALSO very important to a selective college. They would rather see a more demanding curriculum or courses where you got a B than easier courses where you got an A. Ideally, of course, they’d love to see demanding courses where you got an A :D. I believe Perischack’s son took AP Music Theory. He was going for MT programs. I don’t think Theater Tech looks the same, and surely not the same as Math. Also, her son took up through PreCal I believe and you will have only a half year of PreCal. It is not comparable the two situations here. As far as a period in the day for audition prep…to be very frank, my own kid and everyone else I know, had to do audition prep outside of classtime at school. You also need to look at the big picture of your application package for a school like UMich because your test scores are in the lower range of admissions there, lowering your odds and so to help mitigate that, take the most demanding courses that you can (and do well).</p>
<p>Doe anyone have any information on AU’s mt program? My daughter is not sure about going for a conservatory level mt program or one in which she can take other classes, such as Emerson (which is her top choice). After spending six weeks at an intensive pre-college mt program she is not sure she would be happy just taking acting classes,etc. for 4 years. She is a strong academic student having taken a rigorous courseload but not advanced in math. She liked Skidmore but it has no mt and she needs music not just straight theatre. Any other suggestions ?</p>
<p>Okay well I contacted the department of admissions for the music, theater and dance school and the woman told me that they’re only looking for 12 credits of compilitive completion for math, social science, lab and english. She also told me that not taking precalc would not affect my admission at all. I think I’m going to go with the audition prep course because my community doesn’t offer them outside of school and my out of school life is veery busy either way. She was very helpful and basically told me to concentrate on nailing my audition! Thanks so much for recommending the number to me Shelley! It really did help!</p>
<p>Good for you, emsrlyons, for going right to the source! As well-intended as we all are, we can’t answer for the schools!!</p>
<p>One word of advice, however. Your GPA is fine, and should be good enough to be able to get a UMich audition, but your ACT is weak, which may jeopardize things for you. I know you are planning to take the test again, and I heartily recommend you get yourself into a good review course or find a tutor pronto. All the audition prep courses in the world won’t help you boost your ACT score…</p>
<p>Also, Michigan leans heavily on the essay portion of the application, as well as other factors (recommendations, resume, etc.). Make sure you nail these components to assure yourself of academic acceptance.</p>
<p>I agree that you should always go to the source. Let’s remember that you are not only applying to ONE college however. The rule of thumb is to take the most challenging curriculum that you can handle and not the min. requirements. This will ALWAYS help. It is possible to be admitted without that but you want to increase your odds. If the person told you how many credits they are looking for, that is indeed the “requirement” as all colleges state the min. requirements for admission. But you want to increase your odds. I have met individually (with my D who was an applicant at the time) with the admissions person at the Music School at UMich and she said that they are looking for strength of your curriculum. This is true of academically selective schools such as Michigan. When it is a competitive process, those who have more in the plus column increase their odds. Those who have less in that column have a chance to get in, surely, but the odds become slimmer. So, when you add in a low ACT score, that is one less thing in the strong pile that some other applicants will have (along with a more demanding HS curriculum). You can still get in, but the odds start to decrease. </p>
<p>I agree with perischack that no matter how hard you work on the audition prep, unless you do practice ACT scores on a regular basis and work to increase your score, the odds are going to be slim. As well, the essays and recs and resume all matter. It is not simply a matter of a GPA. The stronger each component is of your overall package, the better the odds at very competitive schools.</p>
<p>I appreciate everyone’s help but I’m glad I contacted the direct source. The admissions woman directly told me that I would not be penalized for not taking pre-calc. For an audition at UMich you must meet the minimum requirements, which I do and then some. The audition, she told me, is the key to your acceptance, not your academics. I’m well aware that I should try to increase my ACT, but 24 is actually the minimum requirement for UM. I’m going to take the SAT, too, so hopefully I’ll score well on that. I also spoke to a current UMich MT student who tells me that there are a few people in her current MT course who actually got 24s on their ACTs as well as 3.4 gpas (lower than mine)! UMich doesn’t actually accept their applicants of the Music, Theatre, and Dance School, just deems them academically worthy for an audition which I feel I should be able to meet.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info, perischack! I’m really confident about my essays and letters of recommendation and I have a really good resume. As for academics, I do have 3.5 years of math which IS above the minimum requirement and have taken quite a few honors and AP courses. More than that, I have plenty of extra-curriculars, activities, work and volunteer work so I’m overall feeling pretty good about getting an audition. </p>
<p>And regardless of the apparent “odds” that are being thrown at me, I feel like it never hurts to try. Just because I’m not a model student with a 33 ACT, that doesn’t mean that I don’t try hard in school or that musical theatre isn’t my passion.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for the contributions, but I’ve realized from this that I really can’t let the opinions of online forum-goers bring me down. I’ve made my decisions based on what I feel is right for me; if a school can’t give me a simple audition just because I’m not a standardized test-taking genius, then that’s their loss.</p>
<p>Em…rest assured that you indeed have a chance at U of Michigan and I encourage you to apply. When creating a college list, it is important to build a balanced list of “odds” and to assess your odds at each school. Even if your odds are lowered at a school, there is still a chance. We have been discussing things one could do it increase their chance. That does NOT mean you cannot get in without those things but simply it is a matter of odds. </p>
<p>You are right that you just have to meet the minimum requirements to be INVITED to audition. And you are correct again that the audition is the most significant piece. But it is not the ONLY piece of the admissions equation at Michigan (or at many schools for that matter). Being invited to audition is not equivalent at UMich to academic ACCEPTANCE (unlike how bifurcated schools such as Indiana or Elon work where the academic acceptance is separate from the BFA acceptance). The invite involves an academic screening. But an actual ACCEPTANCE involves careful scrutiny of ALL the pieces of one’s application package. If one has a super duper audition and is in consideration, they surely go over every aspect of the academic part of the file and at that juncture, when there are more who have the artistic level of skill than they can admit, it will HELP if one’s academic portfolio is as strong as can be…in other words, it is NOT a matter of making the min. test score or the min. high school courses required. These are considered the minimum. You must examine the profile of admitted students to any university…the mid SAT and ACT range, GPA range, level of rigor of HS curriculum, class rank or distribution and so on. UMich is a selective school and doesn’t admit by number where anyone over the min. is in the “admit” pile…at all. Don’t go by the minimum requirements but go by the academic profile published for that university. Surely there are those who are admitted that fall into the lower 25%tile of admitted students to that school. Those who do fall into that category are admitted at a lower RATE, however, of admissions than those who either fall squarely into that university’s mid range academic profile or above it. This means you DO have a chance. But it also means that to increase your odds of acceptance, anything you can do in terms of rigor of courses, or test scores and so on, the better. That was the message being given to you and NOT that you can’t get in without doing those things. The school gave you the MINIMUM you would have to reach to simply be invited to audition. That doesn’t mean that anyone with the min. will be accepted. Some are accepted (like ones you heard about) but LESS are admitted in that range than those who are in the range of accepted students in that college’s freshmen profile. </p>
<p>Since you asked what you should do, some are suggesting things you could do to increase your odds but nobody is at all suggesting that you should not apply or that you can’t get in!! Go for it. And remember, at UMich, the invite to audition is not an academic acceptance. Your entire file will be scrutinized further (beyond the min. to get the audition) should you be in contention artistically with your audition. And surely nobody ever thought you don’t try hard in school or that musical theater is not your passion! I am sure that’s true.</p>
<p>Thank you for the advice, but as I said, I am trying my hardest in both academic progress and the audition portion and hopefully all the colleges I am applying to will recognize that. As I said, I’m very confident that I meet more than the minimum requirement and am working hard to improve my test scores. :)</p>