One of my kids was a super high tester with a B average. Took the most difficult courses his rigorous school offered and had a 3.0 UW average. Near perfect SAT1 when it was 3 part and 800s on SAT2s, 5s on a number of AP tests his junior year.
Yes, his grades precluded admissions to the most selective colleges. HPYet al was not going to happen and it did not. But he did well at the next level schools, and got a decent amount of merit money. Ended up a a selective LAC, got a 3.4 there and a double Math and econ major degree. He works in a brain pool type job and does very well.
Yes, I wish he had had the grades commensurate with his test scores as he would have been a candidate for the very top schools. I am a bit like that. Gonna admit full out. But that was not the most important or pressing of my wishes and I am happy as is he the way things turned out.
Do keep in mind that with kids that have such lopsided portfolios, the lowest part of the profile should be well addressed with schools where he could get admitted. DOn’t count on the test scores to make up for his grades when looking at safety, likely schools. Pick a few stretches too if the school fits him well. I was surprised how much fit mattered, especially at the smaller schools.
Also, he might change in highschool. My youngest was a B student through 8th grade. An A here and there but certainly not past the 3.25 level. He graduated with a 4.0 UW from highschool. Decided to apply himself then. Honors and AP classes got him working harder.
Your kid’s test scores will attract generous merit money at many very good (but not top ranked) colleges that offer $$ tied to test scores. Maybe he’ll score well enough on the PSAT to qualify as a National Merit semifinalist as well-- also opening a few doors.
And now for the hard facts: Your son’s “intellect” might be measurable in a test score, but his academic potential is reflected in what he does, not what he scores on multiple choice exams. Maybe he’ll come into his own and find his motivation, and you’ll see a strong upward shift in his junior & senior year. But if he doesn’t – then the last place in the world you want to see him go is some elite college filled with hyper-competitive students, that he managed to get into only because he snags an amazing SAT or ACT score. Because if he doesn’t have the other skills and/or the motivation to keep on top of assignments and put in the effort required to meet higher expectations of college professors, you may very well end up the parent of a college drop-out. Especially a problem when finances are limited.
I’m not saying this to be mean. I’m saying this because my son made that mistake – and my son had good grades in high school. But he had a bad habit of procrastination and trying to get away with minimal effort at the last minute, and that didn’t work in college. The good news is that after dropping out of college 1 and working for a few years, my son transferred into a less selective regional state public, where he absolutely flourished and got some amazing opportunities and recognition. Some students are just much better off in an environment where they are on the upper end of the ability curve.
So count your blessings – you’ve got a son who is a B student and probably doesn’t have crazy aspirations to get into an Ivy League college — and his test scores will likely be worth $$$ at colleges where he will be perfectly happy. And all those schools that pay $$$ for students with high test scores? They will have other students with similar scores, also attending because of the scholarship money.
I think the priority should be addressing why he gets low grades, rather than getting admitted to as selective a college as possible. If the former is not addressed, he will likely continue to get lower grades in college and may be at a higher risk of not graduating. Improving the lower grades will also help with college admission, as upperclassmen years are generally more important at highly selective colleges, and such colleges like to see an upward trend.
There are many possibilities besides ADHD. For example, is homework the problem, not studying enough for exams, not being interested/bored, spending time on out of classroom activities (video games, sports, …), social issues with other students? You mentioned he doesn’t study as much as most of the high achieving students, so that may be part of the issue. Maybe you could try to encourage internal motivation for studying and/or help better understand why he doesn’t choose to study.
Regarding college admissions, GPA is generally more influential than scores; so high scores will not fully compensate for a poor GPA. However, there are are still likely to be plenty of good options for a B student with high scores.
Appreciate all the responses so far. Some follow-up:
What is the GPA?
UW 3.1 (4.0 scale). Also, taking honors classes now, but I can't figure out their 5.3 weighted scale.
ADHD is not something one outgrows.
Had a 504 until middle school for ADHD/ADD. Discussing further with Neurologist and to talk with Psychiatrist...TBC
Ursinus College has a great scholarship for high test scores. GPA is not considered for the scholarship. It is, of course, looked at for admissions.
What other types of schools have awards/scholarships for high test scores?
No matter how test smart he is, he is still a B student. He may be a B student in college.
If he is truly at a higher level, then he will shine at a B college. He will have opportunities to work with professors.
But he has to put the effort in.
I would definitely encourage looking at CTCL schools. Many of them would give a nice merit package to students in this bucket that would reduce the costs to around that price range noted above
I have only read a small sample size of this thread but if you didn’t already have your kid evaluated with an educational psychologist to rule out Add (different forms) and slow brain processing. Even reading comprehension. Being introverted, shy, not speaking in class but I guarantee you he knows the answer and doesn’t want to be wrong. Some kids need more time to formulate the answer. Trust me, I have one of these kids. It’s not that he can’t be successful being a “b” student it’s that he most likely is not reaching his learning potential. There is something not clicking for him.
We had my kid evaluated early on due to some of the same things you posted. We are glad we did it since it changed him into an “A” student once he was able to reach his potential. He was very frustrated not getting the grades etc he knew he deserved.
There are plenty of schools out there that will admit him AND where he will not be in a “league of his own”. It is common to think that all the smart kids are at “top” schools and the rest of the academic universe is populated by lesser students. and reality is far from that.
Frankly, it would help is he could improve his grades and develop a narrative around why he found an interest in excelling.
Help him focus on knowing himself. If he’d rather be invisible, why? If he is quiet, is he comfortable with that? How would he learn best – by participating in small classes or attending large lectures? If he’s not putting his all into school work, what’s he investing himself in outside of academics. At a level, there is much to say for the person who expends enough energy to get things done adequately if that is intentional.
So first, pretty much any public research U with strong grad programs (AAU schools, as a shorthand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities) will offer more than enough challenging classes to an undergrad even though at some of those unis, most of the undergrads there wouldn’t be able to handle the most rigorous undergrad and grad classes offered (academic talent in this country runs extremely deep).
But the bigger issue is figuring out why his results aren’t commensurate with intellect and how to overcome his extreme shyness.
Because in the real world (even more than college), employers aren’t going to say “well, your work is shoddy and you don’t talk to people but I’ll hire you because you’re really bright instead of someone who’s less bright but produces good work because they work hard and are personable”.
BTW, UK unis (except for the extreme tippy-top) admit pretty much solely on test scores, though in their case, it’s subject matter tests (AP tests for us Americans). And your marks there pretty much come down to how well you do on tests at the end of the year. Depending on the exchange rate, some of them have tuition under $20K, though there is also living expense.
Both our sons fit in this category. Our oldest was a NMSF, but didn’t turn in assignments that had a lot of writing. He never indicated that it was due to anything other than laziness, but after he crashed his freshman year of college we had him tested and learned that he had a writing disability. He just went back to school after a year and a half off. This time he’s at McDaniel College, and is taking advantage of all the support offered to students with disabilities. Hopefully it works for him this time. Our youngest had a 1320 on the SAT but barely kept a B average. He simply didn’t like school (like me). He had all A’s his first semester, but I’m sure that he’ll have problems with classes he doesn’t like.
BTW, if he gets NMS through the PSAT, some more schools would be affordable. Including NCF, which may be worth looking in to. You construct your own curriculum there.
I suggest a full neuropsychological assessment. That’s your best shot at teasing out any stealth learning issues. I have a D who wasn’t diagnosed with auditory processing disorder until she was late in high school, but it helped get the accommodations she needed in college. There were a few course situations where those accommodations saved her skin.
I agree that atypical neurology changes but never really becomes typical. Several things are often misdiagnosed as ADHD. If I were you, I would first of all want to rule out high functioning autism.
Keep in mind that it’s ok to be a B student. Some kids simply aren’t that motivated by school. Sometimes the only reason for a disconnect between test scores and grades is tied to effort – not some sort of diagnosable learning disorder. For a bright kid, doing well on a test means showing up for the test date, sitting in a chair for the duration of the test - a few hours at most, and filling in answer bubbles on a scan sheet. At the end of the test… the kid goes home. Doing well in school means participating in class, reading material outside of class, writing papers, doing homework, etc. And while that same bright kid might be fully capable of earning A’s with extra effort, the kid might have figure out that he can easily get B’s with minimal effort and be perfectly happy with that
I would worry about a learning difference if the student seemed frustrated or unhappy with school, or if the student was putting in an inordinate amount of effort at home only to get B’s, or if there was a pattern of the student taking tests or writing papers at school and being confident he had done well, only to have a lot of mistakes and again and again finding the grade was short of expectations. In that case there is a clear disconnect between the level of effort put in by the student and the end result. (This is assuming, of course, that the student hasn’t been placed in an extremely rigorous high school where a “B” is the norm and A’s are hard to come by).
On the other hand, if the kid seems to spend less than an hour every day on homework but is spending time at home reading or playing video games and getting B’s (or for a kid other than the OP’s shy & introverted son, if the outside hours are filled with texting friends, hanging out at the mall, or engagement in sports or other activities) — then the simple truth may be that the student isn’t particularly motivated by grades and is perfectly happy to have those B’s.
And the point is: that is OK. Life & school doesn’t have to be a competition. There will be plenty of college options whether or not the student ever finds the inspiration that leads him to shift into an academic high gear.
After some suggestions, we had him re-evaluated and doctor confirmed he has “not outgrown ADD” as @Longhaul mentioned. Struggling to stay on task and needing extra time for exams.
His school has responded to my requests for 504 accommodations and has made it difficult for the requests (additional time to take tests, evaluation on class participating and clear expectations from teachers). They are making it out as if I only want accommodations for SAT testing.
Basically, high school is saying his grades and test scores don’t reflect a major need to accommodations.
Anyone here know of resources I can go to help advocate better for him on reinstating his 504 plan which he did not have for the past 2 years?
Yes we have been through this. First you don’t outgrow Add. So you need to adjust. Loudest voice wins in these battles. Your son needs a neuroosych exam usually from a educational psychologist. If he has one they can not legally deny you. My son had great grades but struggled. They don’t see that since the grades are good. But don’t understand what it takes to get there. We asked for extended time on a practice act test that they agreed to. Brain processing issues etc. They saw the immediate jump in score compared to the practice one. This is what opened their eyes a bit. Also teachers are not following his 504 since they didn’t think he needed it but he struggled with graphs and too much clutter on a page etc etc. He had accommodations since middle school so this was not new. One on one meetings with teachers and not waiting for teacher /student day. We emailed them till we knew they were following the accommodations. His were very basic also so it shouldn’t of been to hard. All the teachers saw a difference once they followed the rules.
It’s hard since they don’t see add or slow brain processing kids as smart and if they are they don’t see why there is a need. It’s very strange. His reading comprehension also slowed him down.
But in college he doesn’t want any accommodations. So far so good but we know he’s making his life more stressful for no reason. The college says accommodations just level the playing field. Nothing more or nothing less.
BTW the school was saying “B” were OK also. We know our kid, it wasn’t. Once they used the accommodations he was basically all “A”, including his senior year with 6 Aps and multivariate Calc. They were shocked and we said “told ya so”. Again just needed to level the playing field is all.
capable of excelling and actually excelling are very different.
When choosing a school, I’d worry about fit and not reputation. The goal is for your kid to do well after arrival. Poor study skills + middling ability compared to his peers could be a recipe for disaster.