<p>Article in this week's New Yorker about Jerome Karabel's new book "The Chosen: The Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard,Yale and Princeton".</p>
<p>The author of the article is Malcolm Gladwell, who has written "The Tipping Point" and "Blink".</p>
<p>Some of theses attitudes still remain, such as the preference for athletes (not just recruited ones.) I can't think of a single student admitted to HYP from my kids' high school that wasn't a HS athlete, male or female.
Isn't it true that the LACs, Amherst, Swat, Williams, Middlebury, and the like, also look for similiar attributes in their admits? These hidden admission preferences have become less obvious since the admission of women in the 60's - and since our society has become less homophobic and somewhat less bigoted. I think the universities and colleges in this country reflect the views of the society as a whole. I don't think they set the tone, but are shaped by the tone of the country.</p>
<p>It varies from school to school. For example, 28% of Williams incoming freshmen this year were identified by the athletic department as being likely 4-year varsity athletes. That percentage at Swarthmore was 15%. As Mini points out, admissions trends like that hardly ever occur by accident. The admissions staff are professionals.</p>
<p>BTW, I don't think the picture of Harvard admissions in the article is true today. The fact that Harvard is one of the most ethnically diverse campuses on the east coast suggests that diversity is a major priority of the admissions office.</p>
<p>Harvard usually accepts 1-2 of our public high school kids each year.
In the last ten years, I believe only one was a recruited athlete and only a slight number have played high school sports.</p>
<p>This is an interesting excerpt from the article. The book by Shulman and Bowen is the "The Game of Life"</p>
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[quote]
Halfway through the book, however, Shulman and Bowen present what they call a surprising finding. Male athletes, despite their lower S.A.T. scores and grades, and despite the fact that many of them are members of minorities and come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds than other students, turn out to earn a lot more than their peers. Apparently, athletes are far more likely to go into the high-paying financial-services sector, where they succeed because of their personality and psychological makeup. In what can only be described as a textbook example of burying the lead, Bowen and Shulman write:</p>
<p>One of these characteristics can be thought of as drivea strong desire to succeed and unswerving determination to reach a goal, whether it be winning the next game or closing a sale. Similarly, athletes tend to be more energetic than the average person, which translates into an ability to work hard over long periods of timeto meet, for example, the workload demands placed on young people by an investment bank in the throes of analyzing a transaction. In addition, athletes are more likely than others to be highly competitive, gregarious and confident of their ability to work well in groups (on teams).</p>
<p>Shulman and Bowen would like to argue that the attitudes of selective colleges toward athletes are a perversion of the ideals of American élite education, but thats because they misrepresent the actual ideals of American élite education. The Ivy League is perfectly happy to accept, among others, the kind of student who makes a lot of money after graduation. As the old saying goes, the definition of a well-rounded Yale graduate is someone who can roll all the way from New Haven to Wall Street.
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<p>D was admitted to Harvard and played sports in high school, but to call her an "athlete" in the college sense of the word would be a big stretch. Her academic achievements were far, far greater than her athletic ones. She played on youth soccer teams for years and she ran on the high school track team for three years - always finishing back in the pack in every race. At Harvard she plays intramurals. </p>
<p>The athletics were something to add to her EC list, but I don't think it had much influence on her admission.</p>
<p>Much of the article refers to the well known Jewish quotas of years past. However, there seems to be an implication that the current percentage of Jews remains at around 15% at Harvard. Actually, I researched this some time last year, and I recall that the number is about 25% (one of the highest among the ivies). Princeton has the least number of Jewish students among the ivies.</p>
<p>S is a total non-athlete, but was admitted to Harvard.</p>
<p>Donemom,</p>
<p>With a history as long as Harvard's it is easy to find issues with their past policies (or with any school). Some predate the Jewish quota issues and is actually part of the article if you look for it:</p>
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[quote]
By 1908, the freshman class was seven per cent Jewish, nine per cent Catholic
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The reason the Catholic students were underrepresented based upon thier percentage of the student population was dealt with years earlier. In the mid 1800s Harvard had a similar concern about Catholics, particularly the Irish Catholics. The Catholic response was to create thier own schools because of the policies that excluded them, notably Holy Cross in Worcester first and later Boston College.</p>
<p>Those policies at Harvard appear to have been eliminated but you still see a current of this type of tracking in the student bodies of all those schools today. A complete change and integration takes time and the process can be painful. To me it is more about what is the trend and the trend is in the right direction.</p>
<p>To fully respond, I do not know what the percentage of each type of religious affiliation attend each of the 3 schools mentioned in the article but it would be interesting to know as another data point.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting the Gladwell article, Marite. The history of anti-semitism in American colleges and universities is a sorry chapter, indeed. The emphasis in this piece is on Harvard, but Yale, Princeton, Williams and many others have a history of even stronger prejudices. Intellectual antisemitism in the 20s and 30s, which lingered into the 50s and beyond, was widespread, and the chilling comments reported in the period when Harvard wrestled with the influx of Jews following their move to more open admissions (for example, labelling suspected Jews j1, j2, j3) bring to mind the more-or-less contemporaneous rise of anti-semitism in Germany.
However, the apparent subject of the essay is the right of private institutions to "protect their brand" by deciding what the makeup of their class will be. I have seen this right defended many times on CC, and rightly so, but it is certainly interesting to contemplate its dark side. There are certainly some parallels between the situation of Jews in the academic world of the 20s and 30s, and Asians today.</p>
<p>"Some of theses attitudes still remain, such as the preference for athletes (not just recruited ones.) I can't think of a single student admitted to HYP from my kids' high school that wasn't a HS athlete, male or female."</p>
<p>Same in our community. The 1600 SAT kids are regularly rejected, as are the musicians, artists, etc. The only ones who get in are the athletes. (same holds pretty much true for Stanford as well.)</p>
<p>At Princeton, no students from my high school were admitted in more than 20 years (through the late 90s), this in years they sent maybe 18-20 a year to Harvard, and 12-15 a year to Yale. The school had been 85% Jewish. Now the school is more than 50% Asian. The new admissions director is accepting kids from the high school again. Go figure.</p>
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[quote]
To fully respond, I do not know what the percentage of each type of religious affiliation attend each of the 3 schools mentioned in the article but it would be interesting to know as another data point.
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<p>I wonder how many applicants mention their religion (or lack thereof). I know mine did not and would have cheerfully written "none of your business."</p>
<p>Our HS sent a student to Harvard each of the last four years. Three were briliiant students (I am, admittedly, a bit prejudiced regarding the last one ;)); the fourth was a recruited athelete. In our three years of overlap at the high school I never saw him receive any kind of academic recognition or award (and at our school there are many). I am curious how these kids fare once they get to the elite schools. </p>
<p>When we dropped our son off at Harvard, I couldn't help noticing how fit most of the students appeared. I'd also be interested in a comparison of the obesity rates at Harvard and a good state school.</p>
<p>Marite,</p>
<p>I was actually responding to the following from the article:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Candidates had to write personal essays, demonstrating their aptitude for leadership, and list their extracurricular activities. Starting in the fall of 1922, Karabel writes, applicants were required to answer questions on Race and Color, Religious Preference, Maiden Name of Mother, Birthplace of Father, and What change, if any, has been made since birth in your own name or that of your father? (Explain fully).
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<p>Perhaps I am mentally still on the "Enrollment Management" thread. It may not matter whether your son responded to that question or not, they may already know. Though the religion question may no longer be part of the application the Enrollment Management software may statistically factor it in. Students from a particular school who are predisposed to attend versus students at another high school where the college in question has a lower yield rate.</p>
<p>I found this link on another forum and was surprised it hadn't shown up on the parent's forum yet. It specifically talks about Harvard, but most competitive schools have adapted their policies over the years.</p>
<p>The basic premise is that they look for students who have the potential to be highly successful and prominent later in life, so people will think that a Harvard education guarantees you success.</p>
<p>Sorry, I see it has been posted already.</p>
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When we dropped our son off at Harvard, I couldn't help noticing how fit most of the students appeared. I'd also be interested in a comparison of the obesity rates at Harvard and a good state school.
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<p>I'm not sure what that would demonstrate besides the obvious, that weight issues, like so much else in this country, tend to be a factor of income.</p>
<p>29% of the current student body at Harvard is Jewish.</p>
<p>I'm thinking of the mandatory interviews and, from the New Yorker article, the comment on an app from the eighties, "Short with big ears".</p>
<p>Obesity Rates </p>
<p>Penn State has the Creamery, greater potential for frosh 15.</p>
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It may not matter whether your son responded to that question or not, they may already know.
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<p>They would have no way of knowing about my S. But more generally, assumptions are misleading. I know someone named Smith who's Jewish. Lots of Chinese are Christians, but, obviously, not all Chinese are. Lots of families who are not Catholic send their kids to parochial schools because of the good learning environment. So, if most applicants refused to answer that question, it would be hard for colleges to have an accurate sense of their student body.</p>
<p>With adoption, it is not easy either to guess at the ethnicity of the applicant unless the applicant chooses to disclose it. S has friends, both adopted by caucasian mothers, each from a different country of Asia.</p>