Hitting on and getting hit on by undergrads

Graduate School
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<p>
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So do you think that it is okay and ethical to hit on undergrads who are in a class you are TAing for? Such as asking for a date or whatnot

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Most universities have RULES about this sort of thing. At my university, for instance, TAs are NEVER supposed to get into relationships with students they supervise, tutor, or oversee in any way. The rule we have prohibits ANY person (faculty, staff, TA, RA, GA) from entering into a relationship with ANYONE either actually or potentially under their supervision.</p>

<p>kjanebarnum,
Your TA should have been slapped. By his supervisor. And then he should have lost his TAship. Period. If you had spoken to the Director of Graduate Studies or the Department Chair, he most likely would have.</p>

<p>I personally have a strong antipathy toward grad students who, due to their disregard of professional conduct and proper boundaries, end up being predatory on my undergrads.

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Professor X: At my university, TAs are NEVER supposed to get into relationships with students they supervise, TUTOR, or oversee in any way.</p>

<p>I think that if you are TAing a class, you cannot date anyone in that class regardless of your duties. I don't think, however, that it means you can't date any undergraduate. I would be reticent to date someone in the same department as I was, but I would be less cautious about dating a nursing student or someone in the sciences, especially if they were near my own age.</p>

<p>I would err on the side of caution, though. You don't want to be dismissed from the university.

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<p>In the movie "A Beautiful Mind", didn't John Nash (Russell Crowe) end up dating and then marrying his student, Alicia (Jennifer Connelly)? </p>

<p>I think I have to hearken back to what Chris Rock once said: 'If my father didn't "harrass" my mother, I wouldn't be here...I mean, I understand some sexual harrassment. If a man is your boss and says, "Hey, sleep with me, or you're fired." That's sexual harrassment...Everything else falls under "Just trying to get laid."'</p>

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<p>DeepSeekPhD pretty much nailed it - just look up the definition of fraternization.</p>

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<p>
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If a man is your boss and says, "Hey, sleep with me, or you're fired." That's sexual harrassment...Everything else falls under "Just trying to get laid."'

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<p>No. You do not get to make sexual advances towards people over whom you have supervisory power. That is predatory, coercive behavior. Not to mention a conflict of interest.</p>

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<p>You'll get your TAship yoinked if you try something like that.</p>

<p>That being said, fraternization between grad students at undergrads isn't taboo. I met my husband while I was a freshman and he was a first-year masters student. It was a little awkward when we realized that our initial assumptions that the other one was a college senior weren't entirely accurate, but after that we got over it and things were fine, aside from the obligatory ribbing during the toasts at our wedding.</p>

<p>The difference is, are you in some manner a superior to the other person? (TA, research supervisor, boss, whatever...) If you have some influence over their job, their grade, their status, then they're off-limits. Wait 'til after the class is over, or after either of your involvement with the research has ended, or after one of you is no longer in charge of the other one. Otherwise you're opening yourself and the university up to a world of legal hurt.</p>

<p><edit: wow,="" it's="" alarming="" how="" wrong="" a="" couple="" of="" people="" are="" about="" the="" legal="" boundaries="" sexual="" harassment...="" read="" law,="" folks...="" you're="" going="" to="" get="" yourselves="" in="" trouble.=""></edit:></p>

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<p>wow...this IS a very interesting thread :D</p>

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<p>I don't think saying something simple like "would you like to join me for dinner?" constitutes as sexual harassment.</p>

<p>Another true story from one of my brother's professors:
When he was working as TA during his graduate years, one of his students approached him during his office hours; what she did was completely unconscienable. This girl was failing the class, so she told the poor TA that if he doesn't give her an A, she would take off her bra right at that moment and scream "RAPE!!!". In the end, the poor TA had no choice but to give this piece of human trash an A for the course. He thought about reporting this incident to the department, but did not want to risk jeopardizing his career. So the ***** got her A, and everyone lived happily ever after.</p>

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<p>The short answer is, ask the class professor or your adviser.</p>

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<p>
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I don't think saying something simple like "would you like to join me for dinner?" constitutes as sexual harassment.

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<p>The problem is when you are in a position of power it can. I am sure you mean the best and would never hold a grade dependent on the answer, but if she is not interested she would not necessarily know that. If she does not want to join you for dinner she may feel pressured to do so, so as not to upset you and ruin her grade and that is exactly what sexual harassment is.</p>

<p>The best thing to do is wait until there is no longer an imbalance in power and then ask. That way if she says yes it is only because she wants to, not because she may feel she has to.</p>

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<p>
[quote]

When he was working as TA during his graduate years, one of his students approached him during his office hours; what she did was completely unconscienable. This girl was failing the class, so she told the poor TA that if he doesn't give her an A, she would take off her bra right at that moment and scream "RAPE!!!". In the end, the poor TA had no choice but to give this piece of human trash an A for the course. He thought about reporting this incident to the department, but did not want to risk jeopardizing his career. So the ***** got her A, and everyone lived happily ever after.

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<p>I really wonder how that girl looks back on her undergraduate years now. </p>

<p>In a recent book, Academy X, there was a scene very similar to that where the girl did that to her English teacher. Odd how similar both girls' actions were.</p>

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<p>
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The best thing to do is wait until there is no longer an imbalance in power and then ask. That way if she says yes it is only because she wants to, not because she may feel she has to.

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<p>Seconding. Exactly what New_User said.</p>

<p>The problem is that the student could potentially later claim that the TA made the student feel unduly pressured, as though there were some unspoken consequences implied with regard to the student's grade if the student didn't go along with what the TA was asking.</p>

<p>Graaahhh, that's ridiculous! You exclaim.</p>

<p>Yeah... but think about it. If you're a meek, shy little student, and you've been in classes for a few weeks and you're freaking out about everything and this TA for your class asks you out and you think you're going to fail, and you're worried that if you say no, that they'll somehow remember that you'd slighted them and think about that every time they grade a paper of yours in this course that you're worried that you're going to fail... The best course of action, in your eyes, may be to go along with the TA and conclude that one little dinner isn't going to hurt you... And things go very badly from there...</p>

<p>You may not think you'd react this way (I personally would tell the TA to lay off, thank you very much...), but I <em>promise</em> there are people out there who would react exactly like this, and I <em>promise</em> that there are people who have gotten badly burned by simply asking someone to join them for dinner.</p>

<p>Don't ask subordinates out. Ever. Recipe for disaster.</p>

<p>To the guy whose brother's prof got burned by a woman threatening to say she was sexually harassed... Your brother's prof really ought to have immediately written up a thoroughly objective incident report with a very arms-length tone "I met with Ms. So-and-so in my office this evening during my regularly scheduled office hours for Class 101.... Ms. So-and-so then stated, 'If you don't give me an A, I'll...' I responded that I would see what I could do about her grade, because I was concerned that she would follow through with action. I am now writing this report to inform you of this incident," and then CC'd it to everyone up the food chain. Playing around with that sort of accusation is lower than low, and people who threaten to cry wolf like that should suffer the gravest academic and professional consequences. That's just disgusting.</p>

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<p>Thanks aibarr, so I have a related but slightly more complex question to ask:</p>

<p>Let's say the undergrad has shown interest in you because you both have similar undergraduate backgrounds (ie a major in the field in which you are teaching as well as a major in a totally unrelated field...think chemistry and english). Her friend in the class asks you how old you are and then immediately tells the student she should stick to older men when discussing problems with her love life.</p>

<p>Finally (here's the question) the student asks if you are available for private tutoring for extra money. Do you accept and charge the going rate for extra help? Do you charge less because you might be interested in pursuing something after the class is over? Or do you not tutor her at all because either situation might make things weird in the long run? It probably does not matter as I plan to graduate and move this summer and would thus leave all this behind, but still, it makes things a bit weird as far as how I tutor her now. Just curious....</p>

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<p>lolololol, this really is the thread that keeps on giving.</p>

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<p>Either charge her the same rate as anyone else or don't tutor at all.</p>

<p>If you're her TA, shouldn't you be helping her for free, anyway?</p>

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<p>My oh my.</p>

<p>Guys, this is really not that difficult. Treat students as students until/unless there is no way they can be your students again.</p>

<p>Also, while it is technically OK to date an undergrad who will never be in your classes, think hard about whether you really want to do that. What happens when they share information about you and your relationship with other undergrads who are in your classes? What happens if you break up and they do the same? You have the potential for a lot of uncomfortable situations and a lack of respect towards you. Plus, I hate to say it, but people whom you never thought would do so sometimes seek revenge. A grad student is in a precarious position - enough power to be blamed for a lot of stuff, and not enough power to easily fend off accusations. I realize there are exceptions, but understand that you really can lose everything here.</p>

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<p>I agree with DespSeekPhD... you're playing with fire. </p>

<p>I know that the OP said that there were no attractive women in his grad program, but surely, that doesn't hold true across the university. Also, aren't there non-university students that are datable?</p>

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<p>Sorry for the grammar issues in my posts - "people who you never thought would do so..."</p>

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<p>I suspect DeskSeekPhD is married and a woman just by her tone.</p>

<p>If you are a male in graduate school, your options are often limited. If you follow her prescription to the letter, I don't think the majority of my married grad colleages would be married.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Finally (here's the question) the student asks if you are available for private tutoring for extra money. Do you accept and charge the going rate for extra help? Do you charge less because you might be interested in pursuing something after the class is over? Or do you not tutor her at all because either situation might make things weird in the long run?

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<p>Alarm bells and whistles... so much wacky-hijinks badness possible here that I'm almost tempted to tell you to go for it just for the sake of comedy.</p>

<p>But I won't.</p>

<p>If you're at all interested in pursuing this later, it would be in your best interest to politely decline the offer and give her some names of other potential tutors.</p>

<p>Just... don't date students. Get involved in a couple of clubs, if you want... both my husband and I were in the band together, so that's how we met (I'm an engineer, he's a musician... no cross-weirdness there, except for the fact that my husband TA'd my roommate in a couple of things) but don't date people who are or could be taking your classes. Too much disaster potential, too much coming-back-to-bite-you-in-the-arse, to make it worth it.</p>

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<p>Sorry, guys. I realize that tone of voice does not come across well in internet forums and no one really knows me. I was being facetious in my last question. I just thought the situation yesterday was incredibly funny given that we were discussing this on here and then this girl (who seems interested if her friend's hinting says anything) asks me to privately tutor her. I couldn't resist.</p>

<p>But yeah, I would never date a student. Hell, I would probably never date anyone under 21, that alone would be too weird for me.</p>

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<p>
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I suspect DeskSeekPhD is married and a woman just by her tone.</p>

<p>If you are a male in graduate school, your options are often limited. If you follow her prescription to the letter, I don't think the majority of my married grad colleages would be married.

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<p>Ah yes - because professionalism has different characteristics based upon gender, right? You can use that explanation when you appeal your loss of funding, and again when you can't get good recs for a job. And if you think that's bad, wait until the academic grapevine gets hold of it.</p>

<p>For the record, the advice I gave is the same advice given by several professors of all marital and gender combinations. I have heard more than one story about a grad student or a prof getting burned on this. Some were women, but most were men. Yes, certainly, many times it comes out OK. But this is a "Mary, Mary, quite contrary" situation. When it is good, it can be very, very good. But when it is bad...</p>

<p>Try internet dating, or speed dating, or something. But stay away from the undergrads.</p>

<p>*Oh, and BTW, even if I was single, I wouldn't risk my reputation, respect, and career to date and undergrad. Not even if you paid me. Not even if he was non-traditional age. Not a chance.</p>