Straight from the source: HLS personnel that play a role in admissions state directly that work experience and factors other than GPA/LSAT matter:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/4/9/hls-admissions-work-experience/
For those who say that GPA/LSAT alone matter, think again.
This is predicated on the “if they said it, it must be true!” theory?
@Demosthenes49, your position–which you’ve pretty much directly stated–is apparently that Dean Minow, HLS professors, HLS admissions personnel and HLS students are all liars. That is outrageous and unsubstantiated. I’ve heard Dean Minow in-person, describing the importance of work experience, and I have zero reason to doubt her. She is an amazing person.
I’ll pick their description of HLS admissions processes over yours–particularly as you didn’t attend HLS, did not serve on any admissions committee there and have never given any indication of any first-hand experience with the school.
@HappyAlumnus: “Liar” may be a bit strong. They’re more happy to manipulate data so it comes out favorably, happy to gloss over crucial distinctions (like what “employed” means), and self-serving.
I am amused by your belief that first-hand knowledge is relevant. The scientific revolution was more than a few years ago. Long enough for you to know not to confuse “anecdote” and “data.”
@Demosthenes49, you say that law school admissions people who claim that factors other than GPA/LSAT matter are not telling the truth. You’re calling them liars, without any substantiation. You now claim that a whole host of people at HLS are not telling the truth. You’re calling them liars as well, without substantiation. Phrase it however you want.
When lots of people consistently say one thing, and you say another, perhaps you should reconsider your own view instead of constantly stating that everyone else is a liar.
And, yes, I stand behind my view that first-hand knowledge of a school is relevant, IN ADDITION to reviewing data for the school. You keep saying that those Internet scattergrams are sufficient as a basis for all sorts of views about admissions, without further sources. So I look at 2 sources of information; you look at 1. I’m glad that you bring up the scientific revolution because a good scientist would explore a variety of sources of information before arriving at a conclusion. You don’t do that.
@Demosthenes49, you also are effectively saying that HLS Dean Minow is lying about the importance of work experience in HLS admissions (which, again, is an outrageous and unsubstantiated claim, however you phrase it), but the facts are, in the following order of time:
Yes, there could be plenty of factors that affect item 3, but since items 1 and 2 came directly before 3, I think that the cause seems pretty clear. I know that this isn’t in an Internet scattergram, but facts are facts.
@HappyAlumnus: Suppose law schools tell prospective law students “90% of our graduates are employed after graduation! The median salary is $160,000!” In fact, many (even most) of those law students are not in long term legal jobs. Many are working at coffee shops. The school pulled its salary data by sending surveys only to those students who were at the top of the class. It’s true that most of its graduates are “employed” and it’s true that its salary questionnaire returned a median salary of $160,000. Despite this, the impression given by the advertisement in no way reflects reality. Are these schools, in your opinion, liars?
Also, the number of people agreeing with a position is irrelevant. Even if you were right that everyone here agreed with you that wouldn’t make you right. You could just all be wrong. In point of fact, the opinion I express is actually the majority opinion (not that it matters any more for me than it would for you). It’s just that this board has a very small sample of lawyers/law students. Spend some time on TLS, the main law student forum, and you’ll see plenty who say that only LSAT/GPA matter. It’s still irrelevant, but if you’re going to use bad reasoning you should at least get the facts right.
I’m not aware of any statistician that, when given years worth of admissions data across many schools, looks to individual school’s marketing material to draw conclusions.
It’s not “the number of people agreeing with a position” about what counts in law school admissions that matters. It’s who those people are.
Again: law school admissions personnel state that factors other than GPA/LSAT matter at least somewhat.
You state otherwise.
Even if 99% of Joe Schmos in the US state one thing about law school admissions, if the people who actually play a role in law school admissions say the contrary, then the people who actually play a role in law school admissions have the view that counts, particularly when it’s supported by data.
Lots of other people on this board- including law school admissions personnel- state that factors other than GPA/LSAT matter at least somewhat. The fact that you’re the only one who keeps harping on an incorrect assertion doesn’t matter as much as the fact that you have not shown any experience or background in law school admissions (or law in general with a few exceptions, or law school in general) yet continue to claim expertise, based solely on self-readings of Internet scattergrams.
You and Donald Trump share exactly the same approach: you both get things only from the Internet and twist them and attack people.
@HappyAlumnus: I notice you didn’t answer my question. Are you planning on doing so?
I stated before that I was unaware of any statistician that, when given years worth of admissions data across many schools, looks to individual school’s marketing material to draw conclusions. I’m further unaware of any statistician that checks who published the marketing material or said the relevant statement.
I should further note that comparing me to Donald Trump is not an argument. Amusingly, ad hominem instead of argument is his singular style.
@Demosthenes49, if your question is, “are schools that supply false data liars?”, then my answer is yes.
You have not provided any basis whatsoever for questioning the statements in the article in post #1. Nor have you given any reason whatsoever to doubt the integrity of Dean Minow. Your rambling about podunk law schools that inflate employment data is completely irrelevant, and there is no basis whatsoever to impute lies to HLS regarding its admissions processes based on other podunk schools making up stuff about their employment data.
So: your question is pointless.
@Demosthenes49, you didn’t even read the article in Post #1. It’s not a law school’s marketing material. It’s an article from the Harvard Crimson, which is a very well-regarded Harvard College newspaper. HLS personnel were interviewed for the article, but the newspaper (and the article) have no connection to HLS otherwise.