<p>Has your D looked at McGill? It is not in Europe, but it might be a great choice financially and it would save travel expenses going back and forth home on breaks and summer. She might be able get the European feel here:</p>
<p>It sounds as though you just need to accept the fact that you will be paying for college; does your spouse work? Have you thought of getting a second job? Selling your home? You have options even though they may lack appeal at the moment.</p>
<p>c08000, the family making $150k can take care of their problem in a year. Take a pay cut. It can be done. And get rid of the assets that the extra $100K a year have amassed. That part is easy.</p>
<p>Now if you can find a way that a $50K a year family can get up to $150K a year and get those assets, we are all very interested.</p>
<p>The ONLY situation that a $50K family student is better off is in the very teeny, tiny number of kids who get close to a full ride from colleges due to financial need only, and whose parents would not have paid for them had they made $150K. Even then that student is almost certainly have had 18 years of living in a family with diminished means and who were not able or willing to give educational advantage as a family at 3X the income would. The average family making $50K a year live in whole different neighborhoods, school districts, have whole different opportunities, Money for necessities is much more of an issue at that range. Statistically, educational achievement and family income are very much related, one of the few absolute constants in educational research results. That’s not to say that there are not outliers, There are always exceptions to the rule. But, ALL THINGS EQUAL, I would rather be making $150K a year than $50K . Much more flexibility with the higher income. </p>
<p>I know what you are saying. A family who commits their $150K income in housing, amenties, healthcare, all kinds of things may well have less expendable income than the person at $50K. And if a kid from the higher income family is accepted at school costing $55K, and the family can’t afford it, the financial aid option isn’t there, whereas for the a kid at the lower income family, if that the kid is accepted to such a school, and if the school offers close to full need, it can be possible for that kid to go there. But all of those “ifs” add up to a significant probability loss. Far more kids are going to be accepted to the selective schools that give such aid in the upper income brackets. That has always been the case.</p>
<p>mom4college and megdog - Thanks for the input on McGill and St. Andrews. As we’ve expanded our search and received other suggestions, those schools have made her list as possibilities. We have also learned that the University of Edinburgh is a great school that appears to be more open to accepting US undergrads than the likes of Cambridge and Oxford, so we’re looking into that as well.</p>
<p>I am not talking about FAFSA schools here, I am talking about the top-tier schools on Count’s list that are totally “need-based”.</p>
<p>The bottom line is the impact on the family. I’ll concede that the student in the 50K family may have overcome more obstacles to be accepted, but once they are accepted, they are on a level academic playing field with everyone else. The difference is that the student from the 50K family can choose to attend virtually whatever top-tier school to which they are admitted without having a negative impact on the rest of the family. The student in the $150K family is going to radically impact the rest of the family’s finances, potentially for <em>decades</em>. Very importantly, this includes siblings who are not in college. </p>
<p>I’ll add that taking voluntary pay cuts and hiding assets <em>after</em> your child is in school backfires. If you are laid off from your job, that is one thing and I was told (because I <em>asked</em>, because it <em>could</em> happen to me) that they will work with you, but if you decide in the middle of your daughter’s college career to retire at age 50, you will get <em>no</em> sympathy from a “need-based” school. They will question your decision, and even if your income drops to zero, if it is done voluntarily, you won’t get nearly the aid of the 50K family. Once your student starts, the family is essentially in indentured servitude if the student is to remain in school.</p>
<p>“It sounds as though you just need to accept the fact that you will be paying for college; does your spouse work? Have you thought of getting a second job? Selling your home? You have options even though they may lack appeal at the moment.”</p>
<p>Fair questions.</p>
<p>Spouse work. Yes, but it is a pretty low paying job that will make only a small dent (and is already included in the AGI I mentioned earlier). She has been looking for other options, but the job market for someone with her skill set is pretty limited in our community, so anything that is currently available would be a lateral move that wouldn’t make much difference in our AGI. She is also looking at additional education at a community college and will probably pursue that, but it would mean a short-term pay decrease for the prospect of a better long-term payout. She is definitely willing.</p>
<p>Second job. Yes - in fact, I think I am close to getting an offer to teach night classes in a local MBA program, and will most likely accept if offered. There aren’t many options other than that, because my current job requires that I be pretty available 24/7 (but I can probably get short periods of coverage for the teaching).</p>
<p>Selling our home. Probably not the best option. As I mentioned earlier, our house is already closer to the lower end of our market than the higher end, and we have several houses on our block that are already for sale (and have been on the market for a LOOOOONG time), so it’s hard to say how much that would help. Moving to lower-cost housing would also likely affect our transportation. Part of the reason I can still drive my 22 year old car is the fact that I have a very short commute. The true lower-cost housing options in our area would necessitate a much longer commute, which might make driving my old car a less viable option. On balance, with the time, trouble, and uncertainty of it really having a positive impact on cash availability, the first two options are far more promising.</p>
<p>The price tag is daunting. We are half way putting three kids through privage college and somehow we’ve kept up through a patchwork of savings (not enough, but enough to help), Stafford Loans, home equity, scholarships, grants, new jobs, and contributions from the cherubs themselves. The colleges have been unexpectedly generous, and though it has a slightly larger mortgage, we have kept the house.</p>
<p>We told our kids to pick the school that feels right, and we’ll make it work, and so far we have. However, as our last child approaches her college years this fall, I am awed by the price tag. </p>
<p>It’s getting harder and harder as the schools increase their price by 3-5% each year. I estimate that we will pay 40% more for our D than our S who started college 5 years earlier. I don’t understand how they justify the increases. I am concerned about how we can continue to pay, thus the sculking around the CC financial aid threads. Hopefully the schools realize that the costs are becoming unreasonably high and that the price tag is negatively affecting their student mix.</p>
<p>Against my better judgment I’m going to jump into the fray.</p>
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<p>No, they aren’t on a level playing field. Some of the kids at Harvard come from such underprivileged backgrounds that their families can’t afford to buy them a winter coat. Harvard has an office whose job it is to discretely keep track of these kids and help provide them with necessities. It is a huge culture shock for them to be classmates with some of the Harvard students who come from privileged backgrounds. It’s never an advantage to be poor.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why you won’t look outside of the top 30 schools. It isn’t even the top 30 because HYPSYM give financial aid to applicants whose families are in the income bracket you are talking about, ($100K - $150K). I think you are right, by the way, if you will only consider schools in the top 30 but outside of HYPSM then you will not receive financial aid and for an income in this range and no outside help you can’t realistically afford them.</p>
<p>Well, Pea, it is a little late to apply for Fall 2011 to most schools. </p>
<p>My daughter has three backup schools. None are as good as her top two. While they are not bad schools, the bottom line is that once you drop out of the top 30, in many ways it really doesn’t matter where you go. And yes, I realize that many would argue that once you drop out of the top 5, or the Ivy League, the same statement holds, and it is all relative, and yes, what she actually <em>does</em> matters more in the long run, but there also is no way to argue the fact that students at the top 30 schools end up with an experience, opportunities and contacts that you just won’t get anywhere else. </p>
<p>Just for reference, her top two are Wellesley and Pomona, in that order. I take full responsibility for not doing more research into what the <em>reality</em> of financial aid is at these schools. Reading the website information gives an impression much different than the reality. </p>
<p>Her “backup” schools are Colorado/Boulder, Colorado School of Mines and Westminster College in SLC, which while largely unknown outside of Utah, is actually a very, very nice school, and which has offered her a massive merit based FA package. </p>
<p>These five are the only schools she applied to, and she was admitted to all five. Now we have to try to convince her that maybe the top-30 school isn’t so important. The bottom line is that we are waiting until the end of the month to decide in the hopes that one of the many dozens of private scholarships she has applied for comes through. I’m also buying lottery tickets!</p>
<p>co8000, another option to consider: your daughter takes a gap year, and re-applies for 2012 with a different list of schools. Pomona and Wellesley are wonderful schools and tough admits, so any student who can be accepted to those will be in contention for merit money at other schools. Instead of Wellesley, have her apply to Bryn Mawr and Smith and probably some of the other seven sisters. Instead of Pomona, look at Grinnell. If she’s willing to consider larger universities, there are additional options. Tulane, George Washington, Boston U, and many more. </p>
<p>I know one young woman who’s choosing between being full-pay at Wellesley and Bryn Mawr with $15k merit a year. Not to mention that Bryn Mawr’s tuition is significantly cheaper than Wellesley’s.</p>
<p>Congratulations on the other acceptances and the nice merit aid. My high school senior talks about how a alum from her high school comes back to sing the praises of Colorado School of Mines. Don’t they give the students a silver diploma?</p>
<p>I agree with you there. I felt that they gave us the impression that they will make it possible for anyone to attend their school regardless of ability to pay and that isn’t the case. In the end they are sales people and it was my fault for not doing my own research.</p>
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<p>In addition to her I think you have to convince yourself and in the end I think this statement is true. My daughter went through the process two years ago. Two years later some of her friends are happy in college and some aren’t and it has precious little to do with who got to go to their first choice school and who didn’t. In fact, two I know of where things just didn’t work happened to be at very prestigious schools.</p>
<p>It sounds like you have some good choices. If your daughter thinks she would be happy at one of those schools then she probably will be.</p>
<p>co800, if you quit your 150K a year job and let a year go by, the schools are not going to insist you are underworking and give you financial aid based on what you could be making. They will give you financial aid on your family’s income in the target year–2010 for the 2011-12 year. If you make $150K and quit right now, you can get your pay down to less than half of that for 2011. Let the student take a gap year, and s/he is from a household of that lowered amount. Of course the whole family is going to live at that level too. </p>
<p>And I am talking about PROFILE schools which are a tiny fraction of all of the schools in the US. Forget the FAFSA only schools; few if any meet close to full need with fin aid. </p>
<p>Just look at the stats. There are a lot more kids from $150K a year families going to those schools, than from $50K a year familes. When you get down to PELL eligible kids and PROFILE schools, the percentage is in single digits.</p>