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Firstly, I have pointed out before that there are few private schools. Most are Catholic, and those require teacher certificates. The others are extremely competitive and not exactly "less desirable." So your argument there is not making sense to me. Yes, there are some cush private schools that very much value a PhD. How competitive do you think those are?
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<p>Nobody is denying that they are competitive. But you (according to this thread) obtained a PhD at a top school. Competition should therefore be no stranger to you. That's where the notion of drive comes in. </p>
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Secondly, define "less desirable area." Inner city? Because I taught there, and I tell you, there were still 100-200 applicants per job, must with significant teaching experience. Rural? Possibly - IF they aren't having a budget crunch (and the majority of rural districts are) and IF you're willing to buy a house there, because they aren't likely to have a lot of rental property
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<p>Then rural it is. What's wrong with that? That would include places like near Native American reservations. Areas like wildernes Rockies or Alaska. What's wrong with that? Teaching is teaching. After all, many new PhD's end up in tenure-track jobs in no-name colleges out in the boonies. </p>
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Thirdly, no one said a PhD couldn't handle the cert reqs; in fact, I said they were easy. However, the issue was - Will a PhD want to go back to undergrad and do this? Probably not. .
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<p>Of course I agree - and in fact, this has been one of the main tenets of argument. It's not that you can't do it, it's more that you don't want to do it. We both know that people with PhD's can complete the teaching cert requirements quite easily. The real question is do they WANT to do it. Hence, it's not a matter of 'can't', it's a matter of 'don't want to'. But that's an entirely different matter. </p>
<p>Again, it gets down to a matter of drive, which is what I've been saying through this whole thread. If you have the drive, then you'll be willing to put up with getting the cert. Now, if you don't have the drive, then I don't know what to tell you. </p>
<p>Look, you don't always get to do things you want to do. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do. That's life. Often times, I don't enjoy waking up early in the morning to go to work. But I still do it. If you've gotten a PhD, then presumably you've learned how to put up with doing things you don't like (i.e. passing the general exams). So you certainly have more-than-enough discipline to put up with getting a teaching cert. You have the work ethic. The real question is, will you use it?</p>
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So when you advise people they can "just teach high school" with their PhD, are you explaining the length of the cert process? If so, I've never seen it. I'm asking you to give more complete information so as not to misrepresent the opportunities
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<p>I don't think it's my job to have to explain every single detail. I am simply saying that you have the wherwithal to do it. Sure, you have to jump through the hoops; I have never said otherwise. But again, I reiterate, if you have the wherewithal to get a PhD at a top school, then you have the wherewithal to become a teacher. </p>
<p>It's a simple matter of self-confidence and drive. The easiest way to fail at anything is to convince yourself that you can't do it. Nobody is saying that the process is problem-free. Nobody is saying that it is automatic. What we are saying is that if you can get a PhD, then you should be able to figure out ways to surmount whatever problems crop up. </p>
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Fourthly, the jobs aren't even cropping up much in the less desirable districts, and those that are, again, have hundreds of applicants. If I was an administrator and had a choice between an experienced secondary school teacher with good recs and a PhD with no secondary teaching experience, I'D pick the first. Almost all admins agree with that.
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<p>Uh huh, so then why are so many NEW teachers being hired, including all of the people I know who had precisely zero teaching experience before? How exactly did that happen? It must mean that there must be jobs out there where no experienced teachers are applying. And there is the opening that you need. </p>
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Fifthly, "superior self-discipline"? If you mean by taking an undesirable job, I'm not sure why you think loads of BA/BS teachers are sitting around waiting for plums to drop in their laps. Most are willing to go just about anywhere. They also sub and tutor in the area, building relationships so as to eventually obtain a job. I call that self-discipline. There are lots of definitions - don't assume those non-PhDs won't run right over a PhD, especially given that they have been trained in the "system" better than the PhDs and know how to work said system.
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<p>Are they now? Let me put it to you this way. Here's a high school that I know well. {I won't say how}. In the last several year alone, they've hired at least 5 new teachers that I know about (and probably many more that I don't know about}. Yes - NEW teachers, as in people fresh out of school. And they're STILL HIRING this year. And that's just one district in the area. There are plenty of others within a reasonable commute distance. {As Connecticut school districts are not really that physically big}. </p>
<p><a href="http://msn.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?job_did=J3F1SW6NQ6P2RP5S8TG&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=e5a7e86272be4a1c970de84eea9935ac-241235821-J5-5%5B/url%5D">http://msn.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?job_did=J3F1SW6NQ6P2RP5S8TG&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=e5a7e86272be4a1c970de84eea9935ac-241235821-J5-5</a></p>
<p>In case you're wondering, this is not an undesirable school district Far from it, in fact, it's one of the nicer districts in Connecticut, a state that pays some of the highest (perhaps the highest) teacher salaries in the country. Yes just this one district has been hiring new teachers like mad, and apparently still has openings. </p>
<p>Let's take a look at another district. Consider the jobs just for English teachers in Boston. Seems pretty good to me. Sure, while the job spec says that they prefer experienced teachers, the fact is, I myself know several people who just got hired as English teachers in Boston who had no prior teaching experience whatsoever, as they were fresh out of college (where their college program combined a bachelor's degree with a teaching cert). You can search for them yourself here:</p>
<p><a href="https://secured.kenexa.com/bps/cc/CCJobSearchAction.ss?command=CCSearchPage%5B/url%5D">https://secured.kenexa.com/bps/cc/CCJobSearchAction.ss?command=CCSearchPage</a></p>
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Sixthly (is that even a word?), it's interesting how you made assumptions about me not being "willing" to do what I needed to do. I worked in the inner city. I worked in alternative programs. I worked, also in good school districts. I applied WIDELY (several hundred applications) across several states one year, and I was unable to get a job despite excellent refs. The same goes for others I know that were unemployed. And yes, I applied to private schools too, which are harder to get into than public schools (because the kids are easier to teach and discipline problems are almost nonexistent).
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<p>Well, you evidently didn't apply to that district in Connecticut, as like I said, they've been hiring like mad, and are still doing so. Surely I can find others. </p>
<p>What you have to be willing to do is move ANYWHERE in the country, including possibly in the rural wilderness. You also have to be willing to take any whatever job that they may have, even if that may mean not teaching what you really want to teach. </p>
<p>But let me put it to you this way. There are hundreds of teacher certification organizations in the country, churning out many thousands of newly licensed teachers every year. It seems to me that most of these people do indeed find jobs. Not all, but most. However, by definition, most of these people obviously have no prior teaching experience. Yet they can find jobs, but you can't? </p>
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You're really basing your argument on some seriously incorrect assumptions. Given that I'm far more familiar with the secondary school system than you are, perhaps you could accept my expertise in this area. However, if you continue to argue based on false assumptions and your knowledge of a handful of people, I will only hope that others considering this approach do so with their eyes open.
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<p>I also agree that people should approach the process with their eyes open. However, nobody should take anybody's word for granted here. I encourage people to ask around and find out exactly what is happening with regards to hiring at the local schools around them, or the schools that they came from. Are they hiring now? Have they hired recently? If so, did the people they hire have any prior teaching experience? Exactly what are the qualifications of the people they did hire? {And as a corollary, you also have to ask yourself why is it that there are so many practicing teachers out there that really aren't that good? I know back at my school, while there were some that were very good, there were others that were mediocre at best. How exactly did these people get hired in the first place?}</p>
<p>I would also encourage people to ask around their old college buddies. Ask them how many of them tried to become teachers, and how many in fact succeeded. I know that not a single person in my circle of college colleagues who wanted to become teachers failed to get a single offer. Again, often times the offer isn't that great - i.e. in a bad district - but at least they got an offer. Everybody here ought to do the same. </p>
<p>Don't take my word, don't take DSP's word, don't take anybody's word. Find out for yourself just how hard it really is to get a teaching offer.</p>