<p>Ok, looking for some advice on what I should do here. </p>
<p>I've been charged with honor code violations twice, once as a freshman (caught copying a friend's math homework) and once as a sophomore (caught cheating on a midterm). </p>
<p>Words cannot express the unbelievable regret, and personal battles I've gone through with myself over these two things. I'm going to stay out of detail and stay on topic, but let's just say I'm a totally different and more mature person as a senior because of these wake up calls. They caused me to turn around and get a completely new outlook on my life and on academics. That being said, on the current application I'm filling out it states the following:</p>
<p>"Have you ever been expelled, dismissed, suspended, placed on probation, or otherwise subject to any disciplinary sanction by any high school, college, or university?"</p>
<p>I was never given any discipline other than detention for these offenses. My question is do I have to report these offenses on my application, and what would you do if you were in my position?</p>
<p>Here is the exact citation from the CA (please note the phrase I have put in bold): </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Your HS GC will respond to exactly the same question about you on the SSR, so perhaps you should have a talk with them about whether or not your HS considers detention a disciplinary action.</p>
<p>You got caught cheating twice, once on a midterm.</p>
<p>You feel regret and you’ve completely changed your outlook, I assumed to have more honor and integrity. Fantastic, that’s how you should conduct your life. </p>
<p>You still currently attend a school with an honor code which requires you to have integrity.</p>
<p>Under what theory might you think that you do not have to report the incident as a disciplinary action regardless of what your GC does. Don’t you think that you got off easy with just a detention, and now you are looking for a loophole to benefit even further by not even calling it a disciplinary action? </p>
<p>If you’ve genuinely changed and become “honorable”, whether or not your GC conspires with you to cover up the disciplinary action really ought to be irrelevant. The “honorable” thing to do is report it. If your GC doesn’t, you’ve actually provided substantive evidence that you’ve changed and become more honorable by confessing something that you may not have had to. </p>
<p>However, if you still think the end justifies the means, you could probably check with your GC to see if she will co-conspire with you to cover it up. Maybe she will go along. Or she may be as dumbfounded as me and remember the incident, which she might have forgotten, and make sure to mention it along with your question about whether you had to report it. </p>
<p>Ask yourself what’s the right thing to do? Have you cheated since then? If you have not was it because you are afraid of getting caught a 3rd time, or was it because you want to live with integrity and be totally responsible for your own success or failure? If it’s the latter, and they accept you anyway, you can rest assured that everything you achieve from this point on is based on your own achievement. If they don’t accept you, you are still accepting the responsibility and can move on with honor.</p>
<p>Upon reading the question OP has to answer, I would think the answer is yes, in which case, I agree with ClassicRockerDad and Erin’s Dad.</p>
<p>However … I also think that there is enough ambiguity that OP can ask the GC how s/he should answer this question, and then do whatever the GC says to do. When a school metes a punishment, I’m sure they consider the implications on college applications (at least I would hope they do). If the school’s policy is that this is not reportable, then I do not think it either unethical or dishonorable to fill out college applications accordingly</p>
<p>So, they award you detention to congratulate you for the fine effort on that midterm? What exactly is ambiguous about whether or not it’s disciplinary. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why not? </p>
<p>Under your logic, maybe if the school’s policy is not reportable, it’s not unethical or dishonorable to cheat in the first place unless you get caught.</p>
<p>I think you’re missing my point. The application asks a question as to whether you have been disciplined by the school. You suggest (and I don’t disagree) that the answer is probably yes, disclose it.</p>
<p>However, what we’re talking about is the ‘school’s policies’ and whether you’ve been disciplined for this purpose. If a professional at the student’s school says that they can answer this question “no”, then I think the student can do so. Frankly, I think the GC’s opinion is worth more than yours or mine.</p>
<p>My logic is not that it is ok to cheat unless you get caught. Rather, I would characterize it as saying that if one does not know whether certain behavior is cheating or not, then it is acceptable to ask the person in authority for advice and then you can follow that advice in good conscience.</p>
<p>IF the GC intends to answer yes, some comment in his/her LoR schould reflect the monumental change in OP since then. [The CA also asks for an explanation.]</p>
<p>One risk in playing fast and loose with the truth is that, just when you think you have it all under wraps, a teacher LoR can mention it. Not usually as a complaint, but more of a “despite X, he has since shown Y.” That raises flags.</p>
<p>Excuse me for butting in, but “one does not know whether certain behavior is cheating or not”? No, you clearly cheated, and you clearly gained little if any integrity as a result of getting caught.
In your situation, I would indeed ask my GC to see if I could slip by without reporting this, although I highly doubt it would work. College applications are extremely important, and I don’t think my own integrity would hold up against the possibility of eliminating a mistake from my school report. But, after doing so, I sure as hell would have the decency not to baldly lie in everyone’s face and pretend that I have reformed or gained integrity or taken on a new outlook on life from getting caught. Go ahead and ask your GC - I’d actually recommend that to anyone - but realize that that in itself is shameful enough. Like ClassicRockerDad said, there’s no excuse. Trying to cover it up shows a complete lack of true integrity. If you’re the type of person to go even further and act like you’ve changed after pulling something like that off, well, I’m sorry for whichever college you end up attending.</p>
<p>Compare the quote the OP gave to the actual citation from the CA. Notice that the OP artfully left out the part that I put in bold, trying to make it sound like detention was not included in the list of disciplinary actions of concern. That was my first tip off that their paragraph #3 was a pile of hooey.</p>
<p>If the question on the CA is “did you ever cheat”, then the answer would clearly be yes.</p>
<p>The question, however is were you ever “expelled, dismissed, suspended, placed on probation, or otherwise subject to any disciplinary sanction”. </p>
<p>The student was apparently not expelled, dismissed, suspended or placed on probation. The student claims s/he was given detention – and the question is whether detention falls within the meaning of “subject to any disciplinary sanction.” In this case, I think YES. However – let’s say that a student chewed gum in class and was given detention. Do I think that the gum chewer would have to report this on the Common App. Probably NO. Yet the punishment in this case is the same, so one could argue that either both should answer yes or both should answer no…Because of this, to my mind, whether detention is a ‘disciplinary sanction’ is open to interpretation – I therefore suggest asking the GC.</p>
<p>Perhaps we think that it should be reported because we all believe that cheating is more serious than gum chewing. And perhaps it should be reported for that reason!!! However, perhaps the CA should have asked a question that would pick up anyone who was ever caught for cheating, but I’m not sure it did. </p>
<p>I think that OP is required to answer that questions asked on the CA honestly and forthrightly, without trying to equivocate. If that means disclosing that s/he cheated (twice!!), so be it. That is the consequence of cheating and getting caught and OP must live with the consequences of his/her actions. However, I don’t think that OP is required to confess to cheating if the question has not been asked.</p>
<p>In any event, my gut is that it must be disclosed, but I really don’t know the answer here, so I recommend talking to a GC.</p>
<p>PS – lookingforward is also correct that this is the thing that could blow up. All the more reason for this frank discussion with the GC</p>
<p>Discussing this with the GC will make it all too obvious to the GC that this student really has not had a complete turnaround in his/her personal definition of integrity.</p>
<p>If it was something superficial, I would say no. But you cheated, and not once but twice. Applying to college is a competition and I believe you probably would rightfully need to disclose it. It’s more than likely in your records. Your GC will send everything, including disciplinary history. When they see that you’ve lied, forget getting in, I hope you don’t end up charged with lying on an application. </p>
<p>I know it’s natural to think of yourself first, but would you honestly feel good denying other kids of what they’ve worked for if they deserve it?</p>
<p>If you only got detentions, I would ask your guidance counselor what their thoughts are. Detentions aren’t really a big deal, regardless of the more serious nature of honor code infractions. It is only because of the seriousness of honor code infractions, in fact, that I’m suggesting you talk with your guidance counselor at all. Obviously cheating is a serious problem, but checking that box and raising an eyebrow in an admissions office somewhere for the sake of copied math homework might be best weighed against the expediency of doing so as far as chances are concerned. Talk to your GC, in an honest and humble way, about your question.</p>
<p>Zephyr, I was saying yes as in yes, he cheated. I was quoting your post. The rest of my post was my expressing my opinion that yes, he should ask his guidance counselor, but that if he does he shouldn’t pretend to have changed and gained integrity, because that very act proves the opposite.</p>
<p>Some colleges only ask about events that have caused a suspension, not a detention. Answer honestly about any question that is asked, but don’t volunteer negative information that is not asked.</p>
<p>If you’re a high achiever, it may be a non-issue. I know at my school, they almost always erase the record (no matter how extensive or bad) of all the high performing students so that it doesn’t affect them for college and the school can say “we got this many kids into such-and-such school.” Anything from violence, to breaking the rules, to repeated academic dishonesty is gone like poof!
<em>grumbles about how unfair it is that kids suspended multiple times now have the same shot at schools I’m applying to</em></p>
<p>Talk to your GC and see if your school does this, if you’re a top student. If not, ask anyway.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure at my old school the punishment for cheating on a final/midterm was a minimum one week suspension and an automatic F for the test. Which is 30% of the semester grade. </p>