<p>Help, my daughter has been accused of an Honor Code Violation at K-State. Professor accused her of cheating on final and wants to fail her for entire course. She was not cheating but from reading through the procedure it appears the system is extremely biased in favor of the college and the professor. Very few kids are not "convicted" for lack of a better word. Has anyone gone through this with a kid who was truly innocent? Anyone go through process at K-State? Should we hire an attorney?
Any help appreciated.</p>
<p>I would consult an attorney, however…I would imagine someplace on those tons of papers your daughter signed ,you/she has agreed to the schools procedures and or given up some right to a civil trial against the school or professor. since,I do not really know , a phone call to an attorney is with in the realm of things I would do.just triple check that your daughter is a victim. and if she is do not let her be bullied!</p>
<p>If she truly wasn’t cheating, what was it that gave the professor the impression that she was cheating? Can she meet with prof and explain herself? What evidence does the prof have a against her? If it was an essay exam and her essay was word for word the same as the person sitting next to her, and the prof saw her looking at the neighbor’s paper, it will be tough for her to prove that she wasn’t cheating. Did the prof see her with notes or looking at her phone, etc.?<br>
What is the worst that can happen? She denies the charges and has to repeat the course?
Will the honor violation go on her transcript, or just the failing grade? You have to decide if the consequences are worth the expense of legal help, time, and stress–especially if she is likely to be “convicted” anyway.
No real experience in this area, but life has taught me that sometimes it is better to “pay an unjust fine” and be done with it, rather than prolong the stress of a situation that you can’t control and often end up losing and paying the fine in the end anyway.</p>
<p>Find the college by-laws pertaining to cheating and potential penalties. You first need to get the lay of the college policies and by-laws in such cases.</p>
<p>Then, decide if it is worth it to fight. </p>
<p>However, if it is an honors violation…unless this is an unusual school or there’s some agreement to not make it a part of the record, it will probably be entered as a judicial violation on the Dean’s record and/or transcript which can cause problems years…even decades afterwards when applying for jobs(i.e. Federal government), grad schools, or in entering certain professions(i.e. law, medicine). </p>
<p>In most cases, this is one battle one should fight if one’s innocent as taking the “unjust fine” may haunt future career/grad school aspirations to little good end.</p>
<p>Petition for a late drop of the class and tell your daughter to stop doing things that could be construed as cheating.</p>
<p>I have no idea what K-state stands for but yes, if she has not she should talk to her professor. Also generally, for most every college/uni there is a process that should be outlined in the student handbook related to honor code violations that will need to be followed. Check and see what that process is and if the college is following the process. Your D also should make sure she understands the steps and what she needs to do if she wants to defend herself against the charge. As others have said she should know how this will be reflected in her transcripts should the charge stand.</p>
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<p>Considering the OP said final, this means the class probably took place last semester/term. </p>
<p>If that’s the case, it’s very unusual for a college to allow someone to drop classes for one semester when that semester has long since ended. Currently, most colleges have just/are about to start their winter quarters/spring semesters. </p>
<p>Once the last date of the add/drop period is over…it’s very unlikely that it’d be allowed afterwards…especially if the student concerned is doing so to avoid facing allegations of cheating from a Prof for a course taken the previous semester.</p>
<p>Fight it. Her integrity is worth the fight.</p>
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Well,that’s probably because this kind of charge is rarely brought against the “innocent”.
Much as I love my kids, I know their first thought in a dire situation like this at college would have been to lie their heads off to me. Before you fight the good fight, you need to be absolutely sure that your daughter’s version of events is accurate.</p>
<p>I am a college professor. I don’t accuse a student of cheating unless I have some concrete evidence: i.e. a tiny piece of paper with the answers written on it, a essay bought from essays123.com, a copy of a test from a previous semester, a student caught photographing the answer key with his cell phone while my back was turned, an essay with the actual writer’s name (not the student’s) left on by mistake, a speech plagiarized from a textbook used in another class (all real examples). There are plenty of times when I know a student has plagiarized, but unless I can find the original source, there isn’t much I can do. It’s why God invented turnitin.com. I am assuming this professor has some proof. I don’t think there are many professors who want to risk their jobs just to accuse students of cheating willy-nilly.</p>
<p>tptshorty:</p>
<p>Why would using old exams to study be cheating?</p>
<p>In my experience, accused kids who are truly innocent of cheating are usually guilty of a lapse in judgment or breaking the rules – responding to a classmate’s inappropriate inquiry during the exam, for example, or using a cellphone for a benign purpose during the exam. To the extent that there may have been a mistake without a violation of integrity, admitting the mistake to the professor and discussing it in person might be a good first step. But we can’t give you advice we can stand behind unless you give us some more detail (including why you are certain that your child is telling you the entire story).</p>
<p>K-state is probably Kansas State.</p>
<p>I teach at a CC and like tptshorty, I never accuse anyone of cheating without proof. Though I suspect it fairly frequently.</p>
<p>The old tests, ProudPatriot, would depend on the policy of the school/ professor. Many professors let students keep old tests and expect students to have them and use them to study. Other places, the tests are not handed out but get out through various methods. Having old tests is an old problem.</p>
<p>This is second/third hand and about my son’s former high school, but I was told by a dear friend that her dear friend’s D was accused of plagiarism by one of the best, smartest teachers in the school because “her writing was too good to be done by a high school student.” This girl is so talented and her Dad is a writer and a teacher of writers.</p>
<p>I was once told by a junior high school teacher (one I loved) that she showed her H some of my writing and he said it couldn’t have been written by a 13 year old. I’m not even a writer, but I did enjoy writing poetry at that point in my life (nerd alert!). Of course, my teacher believed me, but even good teachers/profs can make mistakes.</p>
<p>Assuming this is Kansas State, there is a description of the process on line.
[Investigation</a> and Adjudication Procedures (Formerly Honor System Bylaws)](<a href=“http://www.k-state.edu/honor/basics/investigation.html]Investigation”>Investigation and Adjudication Procedures (Formerly Honor System Bylaws))</p>
<p>Note that she is advised NOT to contact the prof.</p>
<p>Also note that she can ask someone to be her adviser during the hearing.I would suggest she do this !!!</p>
<p>I am very late in responding to all of this but I was under the impression I’d get an e-mail if there had been any replies. I had no idea so many of you had replied and THANK YOU. First, let me address why I believe her. She has test anxiety and what he saw her do during the test is a result of the test anxiety and her anxiety in general. She looks guilty if you look her in the eye. The best way to describe it is if you see someone looking at you, you probably assume they like your shirt, she assumes there is something on her shirt! She was allowed a piece of paper to write equations on and it was to her left. She kept consulting the paper, as she was allowed to do, and he thought she was looking at her friends paper. When he started walking by her and looking at her she reacted as she does normally. We have now seen the other students test and the answers are NOT identical but they are similar. They are friends and they studied together so why wouldn’t they be similar. Also, the other student finished her test 30 minutes before my daughter so not sure how he thought she copied all the answers. Even on the problems he accuses her of cheating on, he did not score the questions the same on both tests. You know your own kid and I know she is telling the truth. There is also a counseling type department on campus run by paid individuals of the college, she has been there for help with the test and life anxiety and they believe her as well.</p>
<p>Now for the other professors. I also have a friend who is a college professor and she has told me numerous times if she suspects cheating she confronts the student in class and there are times, as there would have been here, that the student explains their behavior and this situation is averted. What evidence does he have? A couple of problems that are similar. As for talking to the professor, no the student is not allowed to do that. However, when the violation was first received we wrote a response letter explaining what he saw and he has chosen to go forward. He has sanctioned her with an XF in the course. If they find the violation to be true she will have to take a “violation” course to remove the “X” and then take the course again. </p>
<p>Our only option at this point is to contest the violation, which she has. Though the policy says she can have someone represent her, apparently the only person this can be is an attorney. We have consulted one and the cost will be upwards of $3000. Though the cost is worth it because the tuition to take the course once was about $1800 and if she is forced to take this course to remove the “X” I assume they will charge her for that and then $1800 to take the course again, if an attorney would help, it’s worth the $$. However, she and I agree and attorney makes her look guilty.</p>
<p>So here we sit. She’s contested it, we are waiting for them to contact her to interview her and then once everyone is interviewed, there is usually a hearing. Evidence-wise, he has “similar” answers on 3 questions and his allegation that there is no way she could have answered those questions intelligently yet others so poorly. We have her word and the word of her friend that even though they have studied together all semester, and the other student offered her answers to homework when she had to work late, she NEVER accepted the answers. The reason she answered some questions intelligently and others poorly is that she skips around on tests and does the ones she knows first. Once he started stalking her for lack of a better word, she freaked out and couldn’t remember how to do anything. MommaJ, sometimes people are innocent and get accused anyway.</p>
<p>I’ll try to watch this board better if anyone has any further advice, please feel free to comment or if there are other details you need, let me know. Thank you.</p>
<p>Tomsgirl- why is your only option an attorney? Why not reach out to a clergyperson on campus (if your D has a relationship with one) or a counselor or a Dean? She doesn’t have to walk into the hearing alone, and her options are not just pay for an attorney or tough it out.</p>
<p>Blossom, the adults in the student center where she has gone for help can not go with her to the hearing. This is a large school and she is not close enough to any of her professors for them to know her well enough to defend her unfortunately. A clergyperson is an option but the guidelines specifically say no character witnesses and that would pretty much be his only role as he is not aware of the situation. I have gone with her to everything so far and intend to be there for everything from here on out but she was told she has to do the talking. We were looking at an attorney because when you look at the guidelines for all this it seems pretty biased toward the school. Plus I sure don’t have any experience in this.</p>
<p>As an attorney myself, I’m biased, but I don’t think having one makes her look guilty. It’s serious and the board knows that. If the same board hears a lot of cases, they’ve seen a lot of lawyers.</p>
<p>jonri, I work with attorneys though none that do this type of work. I think it takes someone who knows how to navigate the system. I did speak with an attorney who has done a couple of these and he couldn’t even recommend that I hire him. He said the system is biased and all the normal rules of evidence and legal structure are just thrown out the window. I don’t know any other attorneys in the town so couldn’t really judge who to hire otherwise. You and I both know there are good attorneys and there are bad and without a recommendation, I am hesitant to put her future in their hands.</p>