Honors Colleges

Parents Forum
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NOT the same at all! This topic has been covered over the years. You/your son actually needs to check into the overall university and then how Honors is done. UW-Madison (ie Wisconsin) has an excellent Honors program in L&S which does not force students into the same classes at all. Nor do they segregate into separate housing. The diversity in honors students’ favored dorms is great even within the same major.

First your son needs to look at the overall caliber of the schools. The regular classes at one U may be honors caliber at another. He needs to look at courses available not only the first year or two but advanced classes related to his proposed major.

I agree a larger school is likely a good place for the numbers of students with similar interests. Remember that large U’s are like cities with many different neighborhoods. you spend your time with the group taking generally the same classes but everyone has different electives for fun or to meet requirements. Large schools more often have a more diverse course listing- obscure topics to have fun with.

The stats on how many enrolled in an Honors program don’t really matter, what matters most is the available classes. Plus- at a top tier U even the regular classes are likely to be more content filled/challenging and the overall student body at a higher level.

Years ago by now I looked at some honors programs/colleges websites. For some the structure required all honors students to take the same survey courses instead of choosing an indepth course. Plus they offered nothing after the first two years. Others offered many honors options for various courses, through senior year. Housing with the masses can work well as we are all multifaceted- not just our academics or major.

It is interesting to me to hear about U-dub (vs UW)- both are strong flagships. And the marching bands. It is was also interesting for me to see how my UW Honors experience was similar to my son’s generation- many same STEM course options with content changes of course (well actually not necessarily- son’s honors calculus sequence was theory based instead of the problem based most science/engineering students need so his textbook had a 1960’s copyright).

You want the school that isn’t heavily recruiting honors students to improve their student body. Your son wants to not be the top student but with peers. There are a lot of elite U students at their state flagships.

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Keep in mind that if you get into an Honors Program you dont have to stay in it. My daughter was accepted to the Honors Program freshman year and lived in the dorm (which she liked) and took the Freshman Honors Writing intensive seminar…but then that was it for her.

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At my daughter’s school I think incoming freshman are invited to the honors program vs applying based on grades, SAT scores, class rank etc. I think after that you can apply for sophomore year based on grades. This is not a state school.

There are a few required honors classes that all honors students take
There are some individual college honors classes based on major
There are ways to do work with a professor to do an honors contract
There is an honors capstone class within individual colleges

Benetfits
housing - freshman get suites vs traditional dorm room and some special activities
scholarship - besides the big merit scholarship you get a special honors scholarship
special activities - some are required some are optional
small classes
special research opportunities (may depend on major)
special academic advisor on top of major advisor
priority registration
research/travel grants
honors lounge with things like study area, free printing, small kitchen

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I’m sure things have changed, but back in my day at a big state u, the honors dorms were regarded as very boring. I guess that is probably an expected perception.

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@HighTide2020 My daughter preferred the “boring” (not actually) of the Honors Dorms vs the chaos of the Freshman Towers. She wanted to be around people who were more academically focused. So to each their own.

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I believe there are a number of benefits associated with the Honors College at Rutgers, including specific residence halls, etc. Worth a look.

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@SchoolNews You might want to read the book “Inside Honors 2018-2019: Ratings and Reviews of 50 Public University Honors Programs” by John Willingham (or the 2020-2021 edition when it comes out). It is pretty comprehensive and should answer all your questions.

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Thank you

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Some schools have multiple Honors Colleges. They might have an HC for the entire university and others for specific majors. S20 is a business major. Besides having a university HC our in-state flagships also had an HC for the business school. At Temple, the Fox HC might have been more competitive than the university HC. The Pitt business HC had fairly high standards as well.

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Hi! I wonder if you could speak to your experience at ASU Barrett Honors vs Notre Dame. I have a senior trying to decide between the two. Thanks!

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Hi @mschmid

May I ask what your son wants to major in?

And have you gotten the chance to read the book “Inside Honors 2020-2021: Ratings and Reviews of 40 Public University Honors Programs” by John Willingham?

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I have not read it. He would not be in honors at Notre Dame, just ASU. He wants to double major in English and Chemistry

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I don’t know anything about Notre Dame but our son is at ASU/Barrett and he is happy there. He turned down Cornell and CMU (primarily due to the huge cost difference after factoring merit) and has no regret.

ASU is a pretty good Engineering school, and Barrett is very nice. The book mentioned in my previous post contains a section on Barrett that provides a good overview of its advantages.

Another book you might want to read is “Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be: An Antidote to the College Admissions Mania” by Frank Bruni.

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I would be happy to try to compare the two.

ASU Barrett - a ‘small school’ of ~ 8000 in a huge school of 70,000. As @NJEngineerDad mentioned, ASU has a strong Engineering school. If your senior is going for a BS in Chemistry, not Chemical Engineering, then they will be in CLAS - College of Liberal Arts & Science. My oldest graduated from ASU Barrett with a BS in Chemistry and a minor in Business. One of his classmates is getting her PhD at MIT (I think), so the program can deliver high caliber results. Depending on your senior’s AP/IB status, double majoring is definitely possible. My sons each brought about 30 credits in as a freshman - essentially making them a sophomore on day 1.

ASU is a good school that will provide your student with a range of options should they change their mind on majors. The “Barrett Experience” is nice. They have some research $$ and access to some interesting lectures. For my CS son that is a Senior there now, it has been a good fit. The atmosphere is very relaxed. Another point that NJ Eng Dad made - the cost is better than most. It was cheaper than a UC for each of my sons that attended.

Notre Dame is a whole different game. First, it’s a selective school, i.e., acceptance rate of 20% or less. All their programs are very strong. There will be less AP/IB credit than at ASU. My DS only got single digits credit for his 6 or 8 AP tests. The prospect of double majoring is still possible. My son is a double major in Accounting and Music. So, it can be done. It has meant carrying 18+ credits for almost 3 years (normal is 15).

The environment at Notre Dame is much more tight knit. The Residential Life Hall system generates close ties with your classmates and Hall mates. One of Notre Dame’s motto’s is “Welcome Home”. You definitely get that vibe from day one.

Notre Dame’s financial aid may surprise you. If you haven’t seen your FA letter, then hold off on a decision until you see that. Unless you are full-pay, ND has a stronger upside in my opinion.

As for the elephant (perhaps) in the room - ASU party reputation. In my opinion, both schools have a strong party culture, if you look for it. My sons are not party types, so they avoid them and do not feel “shunned” because of it.

If finances are not an issue, I would lean to Notre Dame. Unfortunately, in the absence of admitted student visits, its tough to assess culture and fit. Have you visited either school?

Let me know if this has elicited more questions. I’ll do my best to give an accurate answer.