Curious your thoughts about avoiding AP classes and just taking Honors instead. At DS24 open house a couple weeks ago, the AP teacher commented how AP classes are hard b/c they are all teaching to a very specific test, no flexibility at all, etc. Got my husband and I thinking maybe honors classes are the better route- no worries about the $98 per exam fees, more interesting curriculum, etc., etc. But then we hear that colleges want kids to take all the available AP classes offered to them…but I feel like AP is a money-maker for the CB. Thoughts?
It very much depends on the specific high school.
For example, a student who completes precalculus may have an option of AP calculus or honors calculus. In most high schools where this option is given, the AP course is the more rigorous of the two. But there is at least theoretically the possibility of some high schools where this is not the case.
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It depends on what your child’s goal is. I feel it’s really beneficial to start college with some transferable AP credits. It’s not unusual for students to have a semester’s worth of transferable credits (or more) when they start college, because of APs. I’ve heard that colleges look at AP classes more favorably than honors classes. That may or may not be true, and it may vary from admissions officer to admissions officer.
You can look at any college’s website and they should tell you which AP courses they accept credit for, and what score you need to get credit - usually students need to score a 4 or 5, but some colleges accept 3’s for certain AP courses.
That said, AP classes are usually a great deal of work - students have to really stay on top of the coursework and test prep. My DD had 5 AP classes last year and it was decidedly challenging. How useful and well-paced the course work is depends on the teacher. CB does have online support to help kids prepare for their AP tests.
Honors classes may have more interesting course work, less scripted, and possibly less overall work. However, again, it depends on the teacher and the curriculum. I will say that some of my DD’s AP coursework has been quite interesting to her (others less so). If the goal is strictly education, honors classes are often great. They just don’t have the potential for college credit.
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We bought into the take-all-the-APs-you-can mentality for D22, thinking that course rigor would be better for college admissions. She’s a brilliant, cerebral person. But had a few hiccups and it brought down her GPA. Now that it appears GPA matters more than anything, I wonder how much better off she would have been if we’d limited the AP classes. She has friends with straight As but few APs, and I feel like they’ll be in better shape with admissions. Next year my son will be a HS freshman, and I’m really considering steering him away from APs. I’m not even sure I see the point of D22 taking her AP Calc test in the spring, since I think she should retake whatever entry-level calc class is required next year anyway. She’ll be majoring in CS, so I’d rather she have a solid foundation by repeating the material vs. trying for credits that she can get from the AP text.
At my D22’s school, staying away from APs and taking honors would mean they are not given the “most rigorous” mark from the counselors. The best teachers teach APs.
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Most students with an A / 5 from high school AP calculus course / test should be able to move on to the next math course that the college allows. Any student who is unsure of whether to take the allowed advanced placement should try the college’s old final exams for the course(s) allowed to be skipped to check knowledge against the college’s standards.
Avoiding needless repeats of knowledge one already knows frees up schedule space for free electives later. Would you rather spend tuition and have the student spend time repeating material already known, or choosing a course with some interesting new material?
Of course, if the student struggles to get a 3 on the AP test, it is much less likely that the student is really ready to move on to the next course. The college’s old final exams will likely confirm that.
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Teachers and the school counselors can help make the best match for possible classes for your child based on her goals and where she is academically. That teacher sounds like she was being a little too discouraging - it might have been a long day at school and she may enjoy teaching the other classes more.
Honors classes are great if that is where she is now. There is no need to get in over her head and stressed out. The first one or two APs she takes should be in something she enjoys and will like to do the additional course work.
A little myth buster - You do not have to take all of the APs available at your school to get into top colleges in the country. In reality, schedules usually do not allow that anyway.
You will see threads on here with kids melting down taking Calc BC AP and Stats AP at the same time and somehow skipped Trig… make sure she has a solid foundation. Some courses you really need the HS honor class first before diving into AP - example most kids take high school biology before BIO AP.
There are also plenty of kids at good schools who are successfully taking college classes who never took an AP Class. Each kid is at a different place in high school. And with gaps in learning from covid some schools are trying to help build a solid foundation before loading up on AP classes.
Note, the test fee (some public schools/states pay for them - even better) is a lot cheaper than paying for a college credit if they can score high enough. Not all colleges award course credit, some just allow them to go to the next level class. Either way it works out well for a lot of kids.
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Having the “most rigorous “ rating only matters if you are targeting top colleges. Most students aren’t. My oldest took four and my youngest took one. They did fine in admissions but they were not targeting top 50 schools.
I guess my advice is to take the number of APs that make sense for your kid, given what your high school offers. There is no right answer to this.
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Yes, the solid foundation in math starts way before calculus – in algebra, geometry, and trigonometry. A student who struggles in high school calculus (AP or otherwise) because of weakness in algebra, geometry, and/or trigonometry is not necessarily going to do better when repeating calculus in college if the knowledge gaps in algebra, geometry, and trigonometry are not remedied.
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I agree with what most others have said–it all depends on the HS and what colleges your kid is targeting–top rigor (relative to what is offered at the HS) is needed if you are targeting T20 schools. At many schools “top” rigor means almost all honors/AP, AND the specific APs need to be the hard ones. Also, for some students and families, AP credit is of utmost importance, though please note that not all colleges count APs for credit (most count for advancement to the next level, but not all give actual credit leading to an earlier graduation).
@FreshCoastal – hang in there, rigor is often more important than GPA, at least in our HS, for competitive admissions. Hope your 22 has lots of success.
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You may want to consider this by subject as well. It’s one thing to be locked into a curriculum in US history for example, where covering the material for the exam precludes an opportunity to delve deeply into one area. (At our school, honors involved a huge research project but a less searing pace through the years.)
In something like calculus, covering the material covered in most freshman Calc classes may be preferable to a class that matches up less precisely. .
AP Calc AB has been a bit of a struggle for her so far, so I’d rather she have a solid foundation and be very comfortable with calculus in college vs. trying to skip one class. The hard part is that I have to pay for AP tests NOW without knowing how she’ll land in the spring. I don’t see it as a needless repeat, more like a chance to get stronger in a subject she’ll need to build on.
If the struggle is due to gaps in algebra, geometry, and/or trigonometry, repeating calculus in college may not help. She can check her knowledge of prerequisite math at rurci3 . If there are gaps, she may want to self-study those topics.
Thanks. She’s a senior, so her HS courses are all set now. She’s not trying for T20 schools, mostly T50s. Though I guess it matters what T20 means in her context — overall, no, her list is mostly public flagships, but in CS programs, yes, she does have a few schools in the top 20 for CS. It seems as though her weighted grades won’t really matter. She does have the highest rigor across every subject, so hopefully that does still count for something even though she isn’t a straight A student. I’m just not sure if I want my son to go down this path as well.
She’s working with a great tutor, which is helping. I have no idea where the gaps are — I was an art major 
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What AP classes is she taking?
I agree that if she’s struggling now and plans on majoring in CS, taking the Calc1 class at her university is the best plan, so no need to pay for the test.
Other examples: If she took APLang, no need to pay for APLit, since most universities that give credit do so only for one or the other. Some APs give gen ed credit in history/social science, foreign language, or science, making her 1st year potentially lighter.
So, look at your flagship’s policy and the score needed (ie., if it looks like she’ll get a 3 and she’d need a 5, probably not worth the stress and cost; or, many universities don’t give credit for AP Psych or APES but if yours does and your child doesn’t intend to take the class or a more advanced class in that field, it’s worth considering.)
@coastal2024:
there are two main kinds of APs:
Some are the “enriched” version of honors classes: AP Lit v. Lit Honors, AP history v. History honors, AP CalcAB v. Cal honors, AP Physics 1 v. Physics Honors…
Some are the next level/more advanced class after the Honors class in the same subject, ie AP foreign language after FL Level 3 or 4/H, AP Chem after Chem honors, AP Physics C after Physics 1 or Honors, AP bio after BioH…
Typically, you don’t need to take “all Ap’s”, but rather show a progression in content depth and difficulty. I wouldn’t recommend taking more than 4 AP’s year jr/sr year, and max 1-2 in 10th grade ( from the easiest AP’s: AP Human Geo, APES, AP CS Principles, AP Psych or perhaps the more difficult AP World History).
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I just wanted to echo all of this, very well written. My daughter did not take any APs until junior year when she found her strengths and interests so they were geared toward things she enjoyed and felt “good at.” However it is not uncommon in our school to only take 4-8 APs overall. She also did not/won’t take any of the AP exams. She has been accepted into the “pretty difficult to get into” School of Nursing at Pitt so we’re content with the decisions we made.
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My 20 year old took 9 AP classes and some DE, is graduating college a year early (our HS makes you pay and take the exam, if you don’t you can’t take the class, plus for many courses students have the option of AP or regular, no honors, my daughter did take all honors freshman and sophomore year). Unfortunately, she didn’t take AP chemistry, AP biology, and didn’t take physics at all (so as an exercise science major she had to work extra hard in those classes in college). One of my 18 year olds took 7 AP’s and all were accepted by her university, so a huge cost savings. She’s finding her freshman classes to be pretty easy so far, both of them spent a lot of time on school work in HS (plus varsity sports and work, so great at time management). My other kids took fewer AP’s, it was their choice.
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In some high schools, the AP courses in some subjects are the natural progression in math and foreign language. For example, a student who completes precalculus in 11th grade or earlier takes AP calculus as the next course, while a student who completes foreign language [level before AP level] takes AP foreign language.
For other subjects, the AP courses may be the “honors option”. This may be more common in subjects like 11th-12th grade English (AP English versus regular English) or various social sciences (e.g. AP US history versus regular US history; similar for world history, geography, economics, and/or psychology).
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She’s taking AP Calc AB, AP CS A, AP Lit, and AP Gov this year. Last year she took AP Physics (2), AP Lang (4), and APUSH (2). No AP’s were available in 10th, but she took APHuG (4) in 9th. I’ll cross-reference her college list with what they accept — she has a wide range of schools on her list, so it seems to vary what may or may not lead to credits!
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