<p>" It's not like people are barring the doors for honors classes to certain people. It's the person's choice to do it!"</p>
<p>I apologize. that statement was a quite ignorant, but it was based on the environment in which I live in, and is probably quite different from the rest of the U.S.</p>
<p>Thanks, ilovetocamp, for keeping an open mind on this subject. I really appreciate your apology. :)</p>
<p>The least I could do. It's important to respect people who are much older and wiser than myself. (no flattery intended, just the truth! i don't want to come across as an ass kisser heh)</p>
<p>so what is the difference between IB and AP? I'm planning to move from my school because of the lack of AP's to a school with more IB"s.</p>
<p>IB is a comprehensive program that requires that you take advanced courses in the humanities, social sciences, math, science, and a foreign language, take various written and oral exams that are graded abroad, and write a 20-page research paper as a senior that also is graded abroad. It you achieve the IB diploma, you can go to universities abroad. (Many foreign universities do not accept for admission students with only US high school diplomas because many foreign universities require more coursework than do US universities).</p>
<p>The IB program is regarded by many colleges as the most difficult academic curriculum available in the US. It can be a particular advantage for URMs to take it because very few URMs have access to that kind of program. Some US colleges give automatic scholarships for students with the IB diploma.
Here's info: <a href="http://www.ibo.org/ibo/index.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://www.ibo.org/ibo/index.cfm</a></p>
<p>Cool. A post about a discussion that went on in my Honors English class.<br>
I heard that the reason there aren't many minorities in higher level classes because it's intimidating for some of them who really could/should be in the higher classes.</p>
<p>sweet. I guess I'll make the switch. Maybe if i tried i could go to the ivies...just saying.</p>
<p>i would think as long as you put some honest effort and hard work into it, it'll all work out for ya! go for it!</p>
<p>Get good grades in a tough curriculum, and you'd have a shot. In addition, SAT scores are related to the rigor of one's curriculum, so presumably you'd have decent SAT scores. I also assume that based on your junior year PSAT scores, you'd be a National Hispanic Scholar.</p>
<p>Should you be first generation college and/or low income, that would be additional advantages when applying to places like Ivies (some of which -- Harvard, Princeton -- have very sweet financial aid -- no loans-- for low income students).</p>
<p>Leadership in ECs, and/or working a job or having major family responsibilities all would be impressive additions to your application, too.</p>
<p>Being from the Pacific NW is a plus as places like Ivies don't those many applicants from your part of the country.</p>
<p>If you go to collegeboard and look in the counselor's section, you can find SAT scores broken down by race/ethnic group, which would give you an idea of where you'd stand if you did very well. Stick around CC and you can get lots of tips on having a top score.</p>
<p>So what do you think the average IB diploma costs? At the school I know, it's about $600</p>
<p>Although I agree with Northstarmom that a full IB program is perhaps superior to a random selection of AP courses, IB does not really integrate very well with a standard North American high school curriculum and that in particular the Theory of Knowledge and second language requirement may be a major barrier for minority students from unacademic homes or for students in weak schools where the teachers themselves would have real trouble with abstract ideas. It is perfectly possible for academically focussed minority students to get into HYP from the regular program weak though that might be, as long as these students take the most challenging courses available to them That being said, there is something in what ilovetocamp originally observed--the peer culture and the culture of the home and the community has to value academic work, and in most cases it does not. The decline of intellectual standards in the american high school probably hits gifted children from vulnerable homes much harder than similar children from middle class homes, and to the extent that the school is responsible for identifying and nurturing talent there is something very wrong not just with the school but with the community whose value it reflects. The worst possible development for socially weak students however would be to politicize Honors Programs as somehow 'segregationist' as the thread originator suggested or to water them down by grade inflation. There is little enough for the mind in most high schools already, we don't need to delegitimate whatever little there is left in the public system.</p>
<p>I know this is kind of odd, but my friend, who goes to a school at which both AP and IB are offered, says that her AP classes are a lot harder than her IB classes. Has anyone experienced anything similar?</p>
<p>It truly depends on if they offer IB classes as opposed to the IB Program. Because as IB programs are individual classes, taken separately they may not have such an impact. However, being immersed in such a rigorous program to where you are taking 6 to 7 classes, that are all IB takes a special individual. Also, in the IB program, most classes require you to take the IB exam and the AP exam, and while the AP test is a one-day, one-test thing. An IB subject test consists of 2 or 3 tests with no multiple choice. Which one sounds easiest to you?</p>
<p>"e Theory of Knowledge and second language requirement may be a major barrier for minority students from unacademic homes or for students in weak schools where the teachers themselves would have real trouble with abstract ideas. "</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The IB program is designed to help students learn how to deal with abstract ideas. As a result, the students (even those from uneducated homes) go to college far better prepared to handle college coursework (including abstract ideas) than do students who lack such preparation. IB is structured to teach critical thinking skills, excellent writing skills and excellent oral communications in English as well as in a second language.</p></li>
<li><p>As for the second language requirement, for many immigrant kids, the second language actually is their native tongue. They can have an advantage over kids who have only been exposed to English. Students who go into IB having had to learn English actually have, as a result of learning a second language, changed their brains so as to be able to learn languages more easily than people who only have had to learn their native tongues.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>From what I see in S's program, some of the top students in the foreign language classes are students who are immigrants or whose parents are not native English speakers. This seems to be true even when the students are taking a language that was not their or their parents' native language.</p>
<p>"International Baccalaureate: IB courses focus on critical thinking and writing and were designed to provide an international credential for university entrance. Like APs, IB courses can result in college credit and are considered more rigorous than standard high school courses. Some high schools award IB diplomas upon the completion of a certain sequence of IB courses."</p>
<p>Wow, there are no black students at my high school, though I compete against some from other schools in athletics. And there are, as far as I know, 5 Asian students at my school. Anyway, the discussion seems to have advanced far past the point of individual evidence being helpful, but I would like to add that at my 40% hispanic school, (and this is likely an extreme situation; a large part of the local hispanic population is migrant or first generation) the most advanced class I have ever taken with a non white or asian student was precalculus. No honors or AP Englishes, no AP sciences, no AP history. Unless one counts 4th year spanish. I feel at times as though I'm having judgemental factors pounded into my head. I can't wait for college, for getting out of this town, to have high achieving minority students killing me on physics exams. Or to meet a black student for the first time outside the context of a track meet.</p>
<p>Well in my case like 80 % all mexican, one 1/2 irish, one south American ( it's an all mexican school)</p>
<p>I dont think its about not understanding the value of education, it simply has to do with not being informed about the benifits of honors/ ap classes (or being informed that they even exsist!) </p>
<p>Take me for example.. i'm an immigrant, both of my parents are eastern european, don't speak english very well, but are both pretty educated from where they're from, this meaning they both hold undergraduate college degrees. My parents understand the value of education and want me to succeed. however, where they're from there's no such thing as honors or AP classes, everythigni s the same. Consequently they never pushed me into those classes cuz they never knew they existed. I didn't find out about the benifts of honors/ap classes until my sophomore year. Before that time i saw no need in taking them because in my mind, everythign was the same. </p>
<p>Well, i just thought i'd share that w/ yall. Sorry if it's a bit incoherent and riddled with speling errors. I'm listening to really really loud music right now!</p>
<p>My school is like 60/40 with whites being in the minority. It is a fairly wealthy area and the classes are fairly split. The senior and junior classes have considerably more whites in them so most of the APs(which are all offered to the 12 and 11th graders) tend to be more white. BUT, the freshman and sophomore classes have many more african americans and there doesn't seem to be a correlation between race and academic challenge.</p>
<p>I think the issue is economic segregation and not racial segregation.</p>
<p>It's self-segregation, as distinguished from the old legally mandated segregation.
My HS was 50% white, 25% Hispanic, 15% Asian, and 10% Black. I often found myself the only non-Jewish, American-born white person in my AP/Honors classes. Go figure.</p>