Honors Track and Ivy League Admission

<p>My son goes to a very competitive private school. He is in middle school right now. His current GPA is 4.1 (4.0 scale). He is in honors English but not in honors math. In order to be in honors math he has to have A or A+ in every single test and quiz which he quite doesn't have. He has an A for the course. Next year there will be honors track for science. Usually math honors students are in advantage for science honors and same "grade" policy is in place for science honors placement as well. I am afraid he might not be placed in honors math or science by the time he goes to high school. His focus is computer science. Could someone please tell me if he cannot be in honors track for math and science what are his chances to get accepted at Ivy League schools and what he could do to make up for this deficiency! He is already on top of all ECs that they usually recommend for college admission. Thank you!</p>

<p>…that depends on what the end result is. If by not being in “honors” does it mean that he won’t get to take Calculus in high school? I know that in our middle school if you are not in “accelerated” math & science, you won’t get to AP calc and AP Bio or Physics by the time you graduate. Nearly every serious Ivy candidate will have those classes while in high school. The other factor is: on the Common Application, your guidance counselor must indicate if the student took “the most rigorous classes offered at your school”. Talk with the high school guidance counselor & ask if either of these two could result in not being in honors math & science in middle school.</p>

<p>@csdad - Thank you! They have 3 math levels at their school. Core, advance core and honors. My son is in advance core. I checked with their high school academic counselor. He said if my son stayed in the current track he would be able to take AP Calculus AB in his senior year based on his grades. I’m not sure how it works for science. I’ll have to find out. Do the public high schools let you take as many AP courses as you would prefer?</p>

<p>At our school, to get to both Physics and AP BIO and AP Calc. the student would have to have taken the first class in the high school sequence of math & science as an 8th grader, so for math & science there are prerequisites. For AP’s in english & social studies there are not. I know some schools require a certain minimum grade in the preceding course in that subject, but we do not. In admissions it is not necessarily how many AP’s you take, rather “did you take the most rigorous courses YOUR school offers”.</p>

<p>He’s in middle school…comeon</p>

<p>@csdad - they have 3 placement levels at my son’s school: core, advance core, honors. He is in advance core, currently in Intro to Pre-Algebra (in 6th grade). Honors students are taking Pre-Algebra. If he stayed in his track he’d be taking Pre-Algebra (7th), Algebra I (8th), Geometry (9th), Algebra II w/Trig (10th), Pre-Calc (11th), either one of AP Calc AB or Calc or Statistics (12th). Honors students will be 1 course ahead of him taking all honors. In the 12th grade the honors students will be taking either AP Calc AB or AP Statistics. The academic counselor at their high school suggested that my son could take Geometry in summer before 9th grade then he should be in about the same pace with others. I’ll still have to find out what the science curriculum will be for him if he is not in honors science in 7th grade. Would you say his math curriculum here will be Ivy competitive? Thank you so much for your help!</p>

<p>I concur that having the most rigorous schedule possible is important for Ivy admissions. That said, if ultimately he will get to AP Calc AB, he’ll be on track math-wise for top schools.</p>

<p>^
I only had Calc AB senior year and got in.</p>

<p>I would encourage him to step it up a bit more, if possible, though. I know several people here who took Calc BC as freshmen and wound up finishing through differential equations. Then again, they were all math/physics majors or engineers.</p>

<p>The math track he is on now is exactly what my D took & she got into Cornell.</p>

<p>One of the factors that every college mentions is to take the most rigorous courses available. However, I think we can amend this – a student should take the most rigrorous courses that he or she can reasonably handle.</p>

<p>If the ‘advanced core’ is the appropriate placement for a child that’s where he or she should be. To push this child into the ‘honors’ track (where he or she may have to struggle to keep up, and even then only get mediocre grades) can be both frustrating and can really harm a love of learning.</p>

<p>Now, assuming this is the appropriate placement, will it harm the child’s chances of getting into a school such as Cornell – Perhaps, but perhaps not. If the child will learn more in the advanced core track, this will probably be reflected both in a higher GPA and higher test scores. Even if it does hurt the chances for Cornell admission, this may not be a bad thing. Cornell’s rigor is not for everyone.</p>

<p>We, as parents must realize that the honors track is not for everyone, and if it’s not right for our child, pushing him or her into this track is probably more to satisfy our aspirations than the child’s.</p>

<p>I don’t know OP’s son at all, and I draw no conclusions as to what would be appropriate for him.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for your input! It has been very very helpful!! :)</p>

<p>@Saugus - thank you very much for your suggestion! They have Linear Algebra, Discrete Math, Differential Equation at their high school. I think these are electives. I’m not sure the eligibility for taking theses courses yet! If he couldn’t for some reason take it would it be helpful if he took it outside his school and submit the grade as a separate transcript for college admission?</p>

<p>@zephyr15 - thank you so much for your such articulated thoughts! We also feel exactly the same way. We like him to be a little challenged but not be overwhelmed and loose love of learning! We have an older son. We actually had him move to a less intense math class in 10th grade. But our 6th grader is a high achiever! He actually is already learning this year’s honors math in his spare time and all caught up with the honors students. He could very well take Algebra I next year along with his honors peers even! He is very focused and self-disciplined! I know his level of learning and study habits. I do think he is very capable of honors math and science.</p>

<p>Some interesting discussion that hits home with me. At our school only math & science have an “accelerated” track option where students take a high school credit course (bio & Algebra) in 8th grade. Those students who are only “above average” in math and/or science, but superior in the language-based courses are in a bit of a quandary…at the more selective colleges they will be at a disadvantage if they don’t have the highest level math & science course offered on their transcript, even if their intended major is not in the STEM field. My younger D had around a “90” average in 6th grade math and her teacher (a friend of mine) was “on the fence” about recommending her for accelerated the next year. I told him that she was going to be in accelerated. Her grades in her high school math classes ranged from mid 80’s to low 90’s & it was hard…however, she made up for it in the other classes & finished 7th in her class & was accepted at Cornell. I know she was very fortunate to be accepted & often wonder if she would have been, if she hadn’t taken the absolute most difficult schedule offered…her 6th grade math teacher often asks me about all the wonderful things she’s doing at Cornell & I resist “busting on him” with “she may not be there if I had listened to you!”</p>

<p>On the common app there is a box where GC is asked:
In comparison with other college preparatory students at your school, the applicant’s course selection is:
- most demanding
- very demanding
- demanding
- average
- below average</p>

<p>For top tier schools, they want to see “most demanding,” and this is in comparison with the student’s peers at his/her school.</p>

<p>^^
Wait, you bullied the math teacher into accelerating your daughter?</p>

<p>Heh. Good parent.</p>

<p>I’d like to consider it “over ruled” rather than “bullied” :)</p>

<p>…and I was right!</p>

<p>They segregate people into math tracks at my school as well. I had a rather unfortunate situation, though it was obviously ultimately resolved and worked out okay. It was a pathetic display of public school incompetence. </p>

<p>I thought schools were strict about placement, though apparently not.</p>

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<p>…varies from school-to-school, my advantage was that I work both in the middle & high schools & could see the ramifications of accelerated / non accelerated, as a result my opinion carried more weight than if I was another parent.</p>

<p>@csdad - wow! Very nice! I am hoping that my son’s school will also let him take the honors math and science next year. I’m glad your 6th grader was able to be in the most rigorous class at her school. This is what I also keep hearing that the student needs to be in the most rigorous courses that their school offers. I’m not much familiar with public schools. Would you say it’s easier to get in these type of courses at public schools? Are their any restrictions in taking AP courses?</p>