Honors v. Regular: please advise

My child is at a very competitive HS and has an unweighted 85 in Honors Geometry (+5 with curve). Is trailing the class average and having a really hard time with the material. We have tutored her some lately but doesn’t seem to be helping. All of her other grades (regular and honors) are As. She seems to be more stressed than I would like her to be and I don’t think she is really grasping the material…despite hours/days of studying. Option to move her down to Regular (and probably get A, untutored with little to no stress). Or, keep her where she is, tutor her, and hope she can maintain the 85 for year-end grade. Don’t see it going up too much.

The study of math is cumulative. If she’s not understanding the material now, she risks having difficulty with future math classes. She also risks math anxiety, if she doesn’t have it already, as well as a more generalized school anxiety. I would drop her down to regular.

I would discuss this first with your daughter, and then with her and her teacher to ask for their input.

Geometry is different that other math. Some people have more trouble with it than Algebra, Trig, calc

You personally should help her, do not rely on others. HS Geometry is easy and straight forward.

I do not think it matters, Honors or Regular. If she does not understand material in Honors, she will not understand it in Regular. Make sure that she understand every single concept! it is not that much to understand in HS Geometry class. Geometry is much less abstract than other math classes, it is much more common sense, much more that one can actually draw and see! Best wishes!

I’ve found that a lot of times the student’s understanding is very dependent on the teaching style, therefore transferring classes is a bit of a crap shoot - could go either way, but no guarantee.

Similarly I agree that Geometry tends to have some unique aspects that make it not necessarily predictive of the student’s future performance in Math. My spouse is about as non-mathematical as one can be, and he did great in Geometry.

There are a ton of great online resources. My belief based on experience with my D is that online tutorials plus parental assistance make a combination that goes a long way. Sometimes the teacher simply goes through the material too fast. My D also seems to draw the short straw schedule-wise and have her math class at the end of the day when she’s tired. This is the third year in a row for that.

On a different note, not sure how grades are calculated at your D’s school, but a single semester B at our D’s school makes only a 0.02 difference in unweighted GPA, based on 6 or 7 semesters of grades.

I agree with @bouders.

Looks like at least two of you are saying drop her down, which is what I am leaning toward. She is on the fence but knows she is struggling. We spoke with teacher but not much he can really do…just said ask questions after class, use the school math lab, etc. I have a one-to-one tutor for her right now but again, not making much difference. The teacher plows through the advanced material and think a lot of kids are lost. But, I think many have been tutored all semester and some are just more mathematically inclined. It’s said bc she is such a strong student to date and in her other classes.

The other issue I am having is bc she is at such a competitive (private) HS, she just won’t have the same GPA as some of the regular kids at some of the easier schools (public, parochial or private) in our area. Speaking with one mom…daughter coasting through another school in regular classes with all As…is that just the better route? I don’t want to ruin her college chances bc we selected hard classes in a much harder school. Hmmm. The school has excellent college placement but how much will colleges really deviate from the average gpa…they like their stats.

I went through this with my kid a while back. The honors geo. at his school was exceedingly difficult. It’s a very competitive public high school and we found that honors geometry was a weedout class. He dropped to a college prep level , and has been doing well ever since. I am a math professor and tutored him quite a bit, but their exams were from a different planet, geared towards the level of an extremely high performing math kid.

Talk to the gc and teacher. Ymmv depending on your school. And a B grade, if sustainable, is not particularly devastating. However, if it comes with an unhealthy amount of stress, and a disproprtionate amount of studying, it may not be worth it. And it has the potential of affecting the other classes as well. We took all these factors into account before pulling the plug on honors geometry for our kid.

by regular…I mean in the regular track!

My small window of observation (not scientific calculation) is that the way a student’s brain works makes them better at either algebra or geometry. My D’s musically inclined friend struggled with algebra but understood geometry as if it was a musical language almost. And my D (non-musical kid) sailed through both Algebra I and II, but struggled with geometry. My S sees geometry as figuring out a puzzle, and his previous study of logic helped him tremendously.

So consider if this is just a Geometry issue, or if Math in general is difficult for your D to understand. I would get input from her current teacher, her current tutor, and check with school administration to see if they will allow a transfer to regular geometry class.

You definitely don’t want her to advance beyond her understanding of the material, no matter what grade she can manage to keep in this class. It may just be a matter of finding the right method of teaching that matches how her brain works.

It is appropriate for you to be concerned, but try to focus on the bigger picture of getting her the most solid foundational understanding of these math concepts to help her build a stronger future.

Best of luck to you as you work through this.

My D, who is a senior, took Honors level algebra 1 her freshman year and had a very difficult time, similar to what your daughter is going through now. She was miserable and finished the year with a B-. We moved her down to regular level math and she has been there since. Yes she is getting easy A’s now in math, but I know if we moved her back up she would be struggling and stressed. Its just not worth it. As for whether it hurts her college chances, it depends where you are aiming. It could hurt at the most selective schools. It probably won’t hurt when you get a step down from those. My D has been accepted at every school she applied to so far, but she isn’t aiming for ivies.

All A’s and one B is not a problem. Grading in HS can be hit or miss with some classes getting lots of points for homework and class participation. How is she doing on tests? If she is getting B’s, than she is getting the material, just a little slower than her classmates. Don’t worry about one B.

Someone she has an 85 (or a curved 90) but most of the bump comes from at-home graded items. She only gets Cs on most of the tests. There are no HW or participation grades.

As mathprof63 said above, the tests do seem to be from another planet. She said they never seem to be anything like what they are doing or how they are doing it or how it is presented.

Many in her class will skip Honors PreCalc and go take HCalc and then APCalc BC. That is more than she needs. I would be happy if she could get to APCalc AB.

When did getting a B mean your college chances just went down the tube. Feel terrible for her bc she is, otherwise, such a bright student and her standardized testing is always top 1-3%. Sigh.

She also mentioned a time issue for the tests…would do better with more time. But, that is a whole other issue.

One B now but what happens when she gets to AP classes, etc. Although those are weighted. I never thought she would be the kid who couldn’t get into our state school. Uh.

Getting one B does not end her college chances! Stop with that thinking. No college requires a 4.0. This is also room to grow. Work hard - do your best - and be happy with a “B”. One of my sons grades that I was proudest about was a “C” in foreign language. I knew he had worked hard for that grade.

Don’t skip pre-calc. A firm grasp of pre-calc will help in all levels of calc going forward.

I need to reiterate - My D is now taking regular precalc as a senior. She has been accepted at several good colleges. Life does not end because you are not at the tippy top of the math class. You need to relax. You do not need to take AP Calc in high school to get into most schools.

It may make a difference for the very tippy top colleges, but she’ll probably still get into a really good college. Since math is clearly not her thing, I don’t think she’ll be going to MIT anyway, right?

My S was also very high achieving, but he stayed in a regular English class because he didn’t want to take up all his time writing papers. He enjoyed his own creative writing on the side. Did it hurt his chances at Yale and Brown? I have no idea, but he was still accepted to a really excellent school.

Sometimes it’s better to know your limits. You don’t want your D to be so stressed out that it causes her emotional distress.