<p>Currently she needs to decide what English level to chose for the Sophomore year: honors or cirruculum1 (there is also curriculum2 level available). She is gettingt A- on Cur1 now.</p>
<p>She thinks that if she takes Cur1 she would get A, in if Honors - she would probably get B.</p>
<p>She is really good in math, science, history, french, and all other subjects - and those she plans take honors. But English is not her main language and she does not feel as competitive there.</p>
<p>Our questions are, from a competitive college standpoint, </p>
<p>1) Does it matter what level the courses are? </p>
<p>2) What is better, B on honors, or A on regular program?</p>
<p>3) Will it be important to take AP English at some point?</p>
<p>I am a senior in high school and perhaps not the most expert you could find. But..
1. level of the course wont' matter too much, since your kids other courses outweights it by a landslide.</p>
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<li><p>Taking in all perspective, the dillema of getting A in regulars or B in AP has always been a dillema. I am not quite sure...but, i would take regular program for a A. B/c many schlarship asks for your GPA, not necessarily the classes you took. So... a would be 4.00, b is 3.00 so take regulars.</p></li>
<li><p>Something as a senior i never took in consider was "quantity vs quality" I know a girl who was one ranked higher than me at 30, but she took less ap classes (by far i say about 5 or 6) and she still got higher gpa than i did. It just goes to show, that quantity isn't always quality. In all i would honestly, take AP english by junior year.</p></li>
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<p>best wishes...</p>
<p>on the side note, in my school regular english is divided 50% homework/ 50% test. while AP is divided 75% essay/ 25% daily work. So in my case, i took AP b/c i am good at ap writing.</p>
<p>There is no super-definitive answer here, but I can offer some educated advice....</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It definitely does matter what level your courses are. Now, taking all "most advanced" classes and one course one level down is not a big deal, but a higher level of course (provided grades are decent!) is better. </p></li>
<li><p>I believe that it is better to get a B in the honors/most advanced course than an A in a regular course. First of all, colleges want to see that the student is challenging themself and still doing reasonably well (A "B" is reasonably well). Secondly, it seems like your D is a decent English student, and it is always possible that she could get a B+ or better in the Honors English course. Colleges look at GPA AND at course selection, so it does not benefit your D to take the lower course for the A unless she is relatively sure that she would struggle to even recieve a B (i.e., she might get a C in the honors course). </p></li>
<li><p>MUST your D take AP English at some point...no, but it is definitely considered a "bread and butter" AP course. Like AP Calc and AP US, AP English is a course that, if offered, is a very good idea to take. It might be a stretch, but if your D wants to have a competitive courseload among applicants to highly selective colleges, AP English is a course that she should strongly strongly consider taking. </p></li>
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<p>I would not recommend the Honors English course if it didn't sound like your D could handle it. But being able to get a B means that she can handle it. It is important to show colleges that you are stretching/challenging yourself with your courseload...that doesn't mean that your D has to take 25 AP's across every subject. But it does mean that if she can do decently well in a high level of a subject, she should take it and show that she is willing to challenge herself to acheive and learn at the highest level.</p>
<p>An admissions officer asked just this question said "It would be best to get an A in honors (or AP)" Gee thanks a lot - we knew that! My theory is that it's worth the risk most of the time to do honors for the following reasons:
1. you get brownie points for taking the "most difficult schedule"
2. the students in honors courses tend to be more diligent (varies by school)
3. the teachers in honors courses are often better (definitely varies by school)
4. you'll learn more and the work is likely to be more interesting.</p>
<p>BTW my senior son is taking regular English this year because both honors and AP were conflicts with other courses and he's getting his first A.</p>
<p>Iv'e taken both regular and honors english, and atleast at my school the kids in the lower lane tend to be trouble makers. This might not be the case at your D's school, but in general taking the higher lane is a more enjoyable experience. Unless she really thinks she can't handle it, she should take honors.</p>
<p>If your daughter desides to take Honors, she should try to take the class with the best English teacher. She should work as hard as she can to get above a B, not only for the grade, but in order to learn the subject. Competitive colleges will doubtlessly require a proficiency in English that should be equal to the AP level. Her reading and writing skills will be vital for history and even the sciences. Encourage her to take honors, go for extra-help sessions, work with other students, and do what she can to improve.</p>
[quote]
But English is not her main language and she does not feel as competitive there.
[/quote]
If this means that the d. is a recent immigrant, I think the considerations might be different. Presumably down the line when it is time to apply to colleges, the d's background will be considered in assessing the schedule. </p>
<p>I think the best thing is to talk to the honors teacher about what is expected in that class in terms of course work -- that should be compared with what the other classes offer. She should look beyond the labels and make a decision based on which course will help her master whatever nuances of English grammar and writing she still needs to work on. Sometimes it's better to hold back and get a good grounding in the fundamentals before moving forward.</p>
<p>I agree with corranged and calmom and put more weight on the caliber of the teacher. In our school the eleventh grade honors english teacher was so difficult and such a hard grader that kids avoided his class even if they had always been in a rigorous english class. I would not expect someone whose first language is not english to take the highest level class.</p>
<p>I missed that the OP's D wasn't a native speaker, I might lean toward regular English, but she should discuss it with her teachers. In our school the school recommends you for the level of English and by and large I think they have a pretty good feel for placements.</p>
<p>Our son never took honors english classes in hs and got admitted to every college he applied to including Oberlin, Case and Rensselaer. After a B+(89) freshman year he got A's(95+) the next 2 years and a 700 SAT verbal.</p>
<p>The important question to answer is to determine the quality of instruction in the classes she will be enrolled in. Our district did not assign all the best teachers to the honors/AP sections and he had very good literature teachers soph and junior year. In fact his soph year teacher had a distinguished teaching career.</p>
<p>If your daughter isn't a native speaker, I think that argues even more strongly for taking the honors course if it won't overwhelm her. From both the educational and a college-admissions perspectives, she needs/ought to learn to be the best writer in English that she can, and she's likely to get more of that in the honors class. (Plus, perhaps a better teacher and better peer support.) For a nonnative speaker in a challenging English class, a B is a great grade, and sends all the right messages. </p>
<p>I agree, too, that if she wants to qualify for a competitive college, she should plan on taking AP English. She will be better prepared for that if she starts in the honor track now. Frankly, I think she would be better off on paper if she took the most challenging English courses available and got B, B, B+ her next three years, than if she took regular English and got A, A, then B in AP English. Also, you should check on the requirements for AP English -- at my kids' school, I'm not certain that kids in non-honors 11th grade English classes were eligible.</p>
<p>Remember, at the end of the day her English writing ability is the one thing the college admissions people get to judge directly for themselves, by reading her essays. Her goal should be to get to the point where she can write a great essay, to show confidence, and maybe to show steady improvement in English. That is going to be 100 times more important than a B vs. A in her sophomore year (and whether she takes honors or regular English then).</p>
<p>When contemplating this for my kids, I ask myself if the goal is the grade or the education. I gotta think that they will have learned at least a little bit more or write a little bit better after honors than after standard. In the long run, that's what matters to me. I kept telling myself that as my senioritis S brought home his interim report card last week..... :(</p>
<p>I agree with you Dad'o'2 but I think it's the teacher that makes the education good or not and the best teacher is not always the honors teacher. I'm getting the impression from everyone that has posted so far that the best teachers are ALWAYS the ones teaching the honors classes, but that has not always been true with my kids.</p>
<p>Take what will challenge her. I know I would be bored to tears in regular English, so taking honors is much better. A B in honors is worth a whole lot more than an A in regular, imho.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your D, ww812su! I echo what Magicalspork said earlier--in the 2 high schools we've had kids attend, the kids who opted for the "regular" English classes were generally not the top-caliber students, and it showed in their attitude towards class activities, projects, assignments, etc. I was a teaching assistant in our "old" high school with an English teacher, and it was an eye-opening experience to be with kids the same age as my D, but with entirely different work ethics (or lack thereof). If your D is generally an A student, she should be just fine in honors English. Best wishes and welcome to CC!</p>
<p>At an info session at a top LAC, the speaker (I think he was a dean in the admissions office) was asked the proverbial question about whether it's better to get a B in honors classes than a A in a lower level class. His reply was classic: "The best plan is to get an A in the honors class." Nobody challenged him on that statement and his answer stood! If your student is interested in any of the top tier colleges, IMOP the highest level is the way to go. They want to know that students were challenged as much as possible.</p>
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<li><p>For the very top schools, other than recruited athletes or the equivalent, a kid is not in the running at all unless he or she has taken a very challenging courseload. A kid with all As in non-honors courses is not qualified. A kid with all Bs in all honors courses is also probably not qualified, or way behind. The only way to get qualified is to take, at least, mostly honors courses if possible, and to get, at least, mostly top marks in them.</p></li>
<li><p>But that doesn't mean that EVERY course has to be honors or AP or some such. A non-honors course isn't a black spot on a kid's record. From a college admissions standpoint, probably the only relevant cut-off point is what would cause a GC at a particular school to check the "challenging" box rather than the "most challenging" box when characterizing a kid's curriculum.</p></li>
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