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<p>True, although, as a relatively young parent, I have a somewhat fatalistic attitude toward this, namely that I am willing to take on a moderate amount of debt for the sake of my kids’ futures, with the understanding that I may die owing more than I’m worth, and that it won’t matter by then. I also recognize that this is both depressing and irresponsible, yet, nevertheless, there it is.</p>
<p>I would not break the bank or raid my retirement funds for college (though we are still paying for two kids’ college). You need to decide how much debt you are comfortable carrying. Set the dollar amount and share the info with your son. Is the flagship U rolling admission? Then apply there, knowing that it will be a good fit. If your son wants to try his luck with other universities, let him apply to reach schools and apply for need-based aid if he qualifies. Then he can make a choice. He may decide he likes a large u with a big sports scene as well as an Honors program better than an Ivy League school after all.
For Ph.D. programs, students are generally funded one way or the other (the university’s own funds, NSF, DoD, etc…).</p>
<p>My son was really dragging that last year in high school, Mantori. He was just getting tired of schoolwork and wanted something different. We considered a gap year, looked and some schools and programs that offered something nontraditional. I am delighted with his choice and the consequences. He is rejuvenated. </p>
<p>I know that my H’s cousin went to an excellent in state flagship that just was not the right place for him. In my opinion, he would have been so much happier at a smaller, maybe Catholic college. There is that factor that sometimes comes up. Some kids, are happy and do well anywhere, some nowhere, but some do better in some environments than others.</p>
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<p>In the sciences and engineering, yes, and fortunately that is what we’re looking at here.</p>
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<p>cptofthehouse, that is another things I’m bracing myself for, if necessary. Thanks for bringing it up. My son is an excellent student, but it doesn’t come easily, and it is entirely possible that he will be burnt out soon. If that happens, I’m prepared for the possibility that he will just need a good, small, low-pressure college at which to learn and grow for a few years without being under the gun. And the main colleges on my secret backup list are Catholic. I’m not sure why, but they just seem to have the right combination of academic emphasis and human understanding that seems right for a student who wants to learn without constant fear of flunking out, living up to Ivy-League standards, etc.</p>
<p>^^ If he ends up in engineering he should realize he’ll likely be in a higher pressure, under the gun environment vs. lots of other majors - even at some lower than top tier colleges.</p>
<p>Actually at some universities, all entering graduate students are funded. They are not admitted if they are not funded (at least, that’s the case at Harvard and a few other private universities), whether they are in the humanities, social sciences or hard sciences. At Princeton, the package is for five years’ worth of fellowship, though students are required to do some teaching as part of their training. At most other universities I’ve heard of, the package includes outright grants and some teaching for which the students are paid a stipend that covers their living expenses while their tuition is waived.
Some students take longer than the funding package covers, so they can go on teaching and/or take out loans, or apply to other types of funding such as a Fulbright for research abroad, or a dissertation fellowship, a FLAS if they are doing area studies, and so on.</p>
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<p>This is true for PhD programs but it is NOT true for most masters degree programs. There are tons of masters degree students who are fully funding their educations without any kind of stipends or tuition abatements.</p>
<p>^^I stand corrected, you’re right.</p>
<p>What we are saying here is your son will apply to your state U, and HYPS? Other than HYPS, it wouldn’t be worth while for you to pay, therefore it would be a waste of time to apply to lower tier schools, and you would make sure your son understands and agrees with you.</p>
<p>College process is more than just a financial transaction, it gets to be very personal. It can bring parent/child closer, but if it’s not handled properly it could also cause a life time of damage to the relationship. I think one needs to be very careful when one tells a child these schools are worth X, and these schools are not. As we have found out, often it’s not our choice where our kid is accepted.</p>
<p>Our DD is an engineering major at Santa Clara University…which is a medium sized, well regarded small Jesuit university in the Silicon Valley. To be honest, it’s the perfect place for her. In the end, she will graduate with a double major bioengineering and biology. The school engineering program is highly regarded and well ranked (no it’s not an Ivy, but as I said in a previous post, my kids didn’t really care much about the Ivies…nor would they have been accepted if they did). She was looking for a school that wasn’t too big and wasn’t too small, where she would get some decent personal attention. There are no grad students or teaching assistants at this school…only the professors teach the classes. To my daughter, that was very important. The core curriculum at the school is a rigorous one but it is also a very good opportunity for students to explore fields of study that they might not otherwise undertake. Our family felt that the money spent on this education was well worth it…and we have not been disappointed at all.</p>
<p>If he wants engineering, Ivy League may not be the best way to go. There are other schools that might be a better fit.</p>
<p>I didn’t say he was going into engineering. I think someone else said that. His interests are in the physical sciences—physics, chemistry, materials science, and the like.</p>
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<p>Maybe the above sentence is why folks thought your son was interested in engineering.</p>
<p>Thanks, thumper. That’s certainly how I interpreted that particular sentence. And I did write “If” :)</p>
<p>I see now. I cited engineering because funding for grad students tends to be good in both, but I don’t think he’s interested in engineering, just basic science.</p>
<p>By the way, I appreciate and agree with those of you who said that I don’t have to worry about this now. I know it’s true. But I also am an intense worrier, and discussing it here is one way I keep from dragging my son into the same conversation, which he does not need right now! (Aside from needing to know the limits of my financial support, and I will discuss that with him soon.)</p>
<p>So, thank you for indulging me.</p>
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<p>It’s probably contrary to the religion of “fit” that dominates on CC, but I uderstand the sentiment. Another way to think of it is being willing to pay Ferrari prices provided you actually get to drive a Ferrari. But you don’t want to pay Ferrari prices for a Honda Accord, even thought the Honda is just as good a car in many ways and an even better one in a few ways.</p>
<p>I’m more interested in the scenario whereby the choice is between Honors at State U versus a top 20 (but not HYPSM) school. What then?</p>
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<p>That gets to the question of just where to draw the line. Pay $50,000 for four years at Harvard? Of course! MIT? Yes! Hopkins? Yeah. Vanderbilt? Um…okay, sure. Rochester? Um…probably, I guess. Syracuse? Uhh…I…well…</p>
<p>“Fit” certainly comes into it, and I regularly attend the CC Church of Fit, although I don’t tithe. At some point my attitude will be, “If it’s going to save me $50,000, you can just make yourself fit at State U.”</p>
<p>There is no definite cutoff point, that’s for sure. A lot of intangibles remain to be seen first. Which I guess brings me right back to the point that a few earlier posters made, that it’s too soon to settle the issue in any meaningful way. Drat.</p>