<p>I generally agree with Idad's observations. </p>
<p>But......................Get together a good long list of schools, choose some you're sure you'll get into, and give the others (even a Harvard if you wish) a chance to say yes. Do a thorough job on the essays. Applications aren't due for another six months.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I don't know whether or not she'd be happy at Harvard. I do know that Harvard has an equestrian team: <a href="http://hcs.harvard.edu/%7Ehorses/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://hcs.harvard.edu/~horses/index.html</a></p>
<p>Since Harvard likes to have members for all of its hundreds of clubs and sports, I do think that her horse experience would be a nice hook.</p>
<p>A link to a story about the team: <a href="http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/0701104.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/0701104.html</a></p>
<p>Northstarmom - check the "support" link on the site you posted. It's a fledgling team, both on funding and participation. And the Harvard Magazin article cited issues with transportation - the stables are in Concord, probably about 18 miles away from Cambridge. Compare that to the Cornell team: <a href="http://cornellbigred.collegesports.com/sports/w-equest/mtt/corn-w-equest-mtt.html%5B/url%5D">http://cornellbigred.collegesports.com/sports/w-equest/mtt/corn-w-equest-mtt.html</a></p>
<p>They may both be Ivies, but when it comes to horses, they aren't in the same league.</p>
<p>Wow, am I coming to regret mentioning my sixth grade aspirations :D I am definitely not basing my choice in colleges on childhood dreams. I had actually completely written off Harvard as an impossibility after reading <em>A is for Admission</em>, but my interest was reawakened by the suggestions of my mom, various people in my community, and a couple of my teachers; that's why the question about the hook. Before that renewal, I had planned to apply almost exclusively to schools that were associated with colleges of veterinary medicine. </p>
<p>Calmom, you hit the nail on the head in terms of my career path and interests; I intend to become a highly successful, FEMALE, large animal veterinarian, and my main hobby is horses. I am strongly considering, and you suggested, Cornell, and isn't it nice that they accept 33% of their applicants instead of 9.1%? :) And now I have to ask: Is my "tag" a useful one or at least one that sticks out somewhat? </p>
<p>According to certain people, I will probably put down roots wherever I attend veterinary school, and my best bets for establishing a practice are to have older connections with the area. Since I will only stay in IN worst case scenario, I must be very careful when it comes to selecting the state in which I attend college. I have settled on heading to the East because I don't like the humidity here in IN (rules out the South), I prefer the cold to the heat (again the South and parts of the West), and I might just end up working on race horses (so much for most of the West). </p>
<p>I'll admit, too, that I was fairly set for a long time on Purdue, so I didn't bother researching other schools, and now I'm behind. The whole search process is overwhelming, and my GC isn't much help because they certainly aren't used to sending students that far away.</p>
<p>I would like to compete on an equestrian team and would rather ride a horse than drive a car :D Point Cornell!</p>
<p>Thanks for realigning my views Calmom and interesteddad! I may still try for Harvard, but I had, in the matter of a few days, become rather single-minded. Northstarmom, thanks for you encouragement. I would also like to take this opportunity to blame Harvard itself for some of this; they sent me one of their letters and a viewbook complete with application. The nerve!:D :D</p>
<p>It goes against all your weather criteria, but you can't do better than Texas A&M for large animal veterinary training. It is a flat, humid, ugly place.</p>
<p>I'm not suggesting that you rule out any school. A degree from any of a couple dozen schools in the Northeast could certainly lead to a vet school admission. You'll have to research the exact requirements, but I believe that you would largely follow a pre-med program as an undergrad.</p>
<p>Most likely, the real-world avenue to a large-animal vet practice after vet school would be to join an existing practice, with an eye towards buying the practice ten years down the road when your boss approaches retirement age.</p>
<p>Oh, I am not surprised that Harvard's equestrian team is not as good as Cornell's. However, if the OP really wants to go to Harvard, their fledgling equestrian team would help her as it would be harder for H than some other colleges to attract people with an interest in being on such a team.</p>
<p>Since Cornell is in a rural area and has a strong team plus a well known veterinarian school ( that is, I believe part of Cornell that is a public university and thus easier for NY State residents to gain acceptance to than out of state residents), it may be far more difficult for aspiring veterinarians with a background with horses to get admitted to Cornell than to Harvard.</p>
<p>The OP's rural background and interest in horses and veterinary science may not be that unusual for Cornell but may be a major hook at Harvard.</p>
<p>Erin, have you visited Cornell. If not, check out this link: <a href="http://www.explore.cornell.edu/scene.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://www.explore.cornell.edu/scene.cfm</a></p>
<p>There are some wonderful pictures there, especially under the link marked "Natural Beauty".</p>
<p>I used to be pre-vet myself, until I got done in by Chem IA - but back in my day it was very important to be coming from the state where you wanted to attend vet school, or from a state without a vet school - because it was very difficult to get into a vet school as an out-of-stater. I was in Texas but could not imagine any fate worse than Texas A&M - hence the plan to attend school in California and establish Cal. residency, with Colorado as a 2nd choice. I don't know if it is quite so hard these days -- in my day they also told women upfront to forget it - they didn't want to give their valuable slots to people who might go off and get married. Hard to imagine - I haven't seen a male vet in years (my pets go to a clinic that is all female vets - I don't know if that's intentional, or just reflects current demographics).</p>
<p>Anyway, Harvard is sending you all those lovely brochures because they want you to send them a $65 application fee for the privilege of being one of the 90% of applicants they don't admit. U of Penn also has a vet school, and an equestrian team - but because of their urban location the stables are in places about an hour away. Here's a link for college equestrian teams:
<a href="http://dmoz.org/Sports/Equestrian/College_and_University_Teams/%5B/url%5D">http://dmoz.org/Sports/Equestrian/College_and_University_Teams/</a>
Skidmore would make a good safety school for you to consider. Equestrian is also big at Mt. Holyoke, and their stables are on campus, with about 30 stalls available for students to board their own horses. </p>
<p>If you have already established your credentials somewhat as a competive rider, that may be good hook for the colleges that field athletic teams, as opposed to simple club sports.</p>
<p>Northstarmom - I don't want to debate the point at length, but I think a "hook" needs to be something the college wants. If Harvard won't even fund its own equestrian team, leaving it up to enterprising students to establish it as a club sport, I have a hard time thinking it would be much of a hook -- it certainly is very low on their priorities. It may be an interesting facet of a student's background - something that will help a little in drawing the attention of an ad com -- but it not like the school has equestrian slots that need filling. It is true that there will be more competition from students with similar backgrounds at Cornell -- but as Erin has noted, the level of Cornell competition is a lot more realistic. Also, she needs to think about what she will find once she gets to the school -- a school like Cornell will have better support and advising for pre vet students. Bottom line is that she will find more students who share her interests at some of the schools I mentioned.</p>
<p>Just from glancing at the Purdue Vet School admissions site, it appears that admissions strongly favor Indiana residents. Of course, that would be the same for Erin-Michele regardless of where she goes to undergrad college. Purdue does offer a guaranteed vet school admissions undergrad program that Erin-Michele could easily qualify for. That would be a fantastic "safety".</p>
<p>We have a little family connection to Purdue. My dad started out after high school at Purdue Agric. school (from a farm in Indiana) and ended up at Harvard Med. Go figure. Just goes to show that high school plans don't always play out as expected.</p>
<p>It appears that with a few exceptions (Tufts, Cornell, UPenn), virtually all of the Vet Schools are associated with state universities.</p>
<p>" Harvard is sending you all those lovely brochures because they want you to send them a $65 application fee for the privilege of being one of the 90% of applicants they don't admit."</p>
<p>In all honesty, Harvard has absolutely no reason to waste its time asking people to apply who have no chance of admission. Certainly Harvard wants to be able to pick and choose from a large number of smart, well qualified students in order to build a diverse class representing a variety of backgrounds and interests. </p>
<p>The OP certainly has a strong enough background to have a shot at Harvard. If she's interested, she should do her best to submit a strong application (including taking the SAT again and/or taking the ACT to try to raise her scores). If she would like to go to a top college, she should apply to more than just Harvard -- and she should make sure she has match colleges and safeties that she knows she will be accepted to and can afford.</p>
<p>Unless she's positive that she doesn't want to go to a college that has equestrian as only a club team, she has no need right now to rule out applying to Harvard.</p>
<p>After all, if she should get accepted and doesn't want to go there, there's nothing to prevent her from turning Harvard down as 15% or so of Harvard accepted students do.</p>
<p>Mt. Holyoke has stables on campus. It fits your other criteria.</p>
<p>Totally disagree Northstarmom. While H is above a lot, they are not above wanting to be the most selective college. They are hardly alone in this, but the top colleges do send out false hope to many. Look at the number of kids on boards like this that truly believe that SATs really aren't that important.</p>
<p>I was really taken aback at the Harvard reps talk at my kid's school last year. She really made it sound as though SATs were not that important. She made it sound like everyone really had a shot, rhat they spent hours discovering just how special wach applicant was. A review of who did and didn't get in for the last 5 years shows that SATs are indeed important and they didn't find anyone "special" enough to accept who didn't have conventional stats.</p>
<p>I never discourage kids from applying to a "dream school". And certainly Erin has a better shot at it than many kids I know. However, it is truly a lottery ticket to gain entry to those top schools, and she should be aware of this and look for some schools that will match her interests and goals that are not as well known as Harvard. That is the true challenge of the college search, not just picking the top names off the list. But that does not preclude keeping some of those schools on there as well.</p>
<p>If you need financial aid, it is also important to give that aspect heavy consideration when putting together your college list. If you want to go to the North East for college, do look at some schools that give 100% of need or have merit awards.</p>
<p>"I was really taken aback at the Harvard reps talk at my kid's school last year. She really made it sound as though SATs were not that important. She made it sound like everyone really had a shot, rhat they spent hours discovering just how special wach applicant was. A review of who did and didn't get in for the last 5 years shows that SATs are indeed important and they didn't find anyone "special" enough to accept who didn't have conventional stats."</p>
<p>I am curious -- did you hear yourself what the rep said? I am wondering whether you're reporting what students thought they heard or whether you were there in person.</p>
<p>I have accompanied our Harvard adcom on school visits in my area and I know that mine does not say anything like the above. Students at virtually every school asked what SAT was needed to be considered, and while the adcom did say that adcoms look at the whole package, she also clearly said that it is extremely unusual for anyone to get in without at least a 600 on each part of the (old) SAT.</p>
<p>Frankly, I don't know why any student would think that SATs aren't important since a quick Google shows the 25th through 75th m and v percentiles for H accepted students are 700-790. Of course SATs count. There's no other way that H's scores could be that high.</p>
<p>What's important about SATs, though, is that H considers far more than SATs in making admissions decisions. It's particularly important for high stat students to realize this so they don't assume that due to excellent scores, they'll be shoo-ins. The info also is important for students with unusual attributes who are at the low end of Harvard's curve. They may be in a stronger position for admission than they realize.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, all students applying to H have long odds of admission. That's certainly true of the OP, though I think that she has better odds than do the many students who post here with higher SATs but ECs that are not unusual and residences that are in localities that flood Harvard with excellent applicants.</p>
<p>Erin -</p>
<p>Which is the more important goal for you? Becoming a vet or attending Harvard?</p>
<p>I am an alumnus of UC Davis (California's college with a vet school) and also a proud Harvard parent. So I hold Harvard in very high regard. However, based on what I saw in four years at UC Davis, the kids that got into vet school usually went undergrad where there were very strong Animal Science departments or programs. </p>
<p>What that translated into in California terms was that more than half of each entering class at the vet school came from just two universities: UC Davis itself and Cal Poly Pomona - another school with strong Animal Science. In any given year they usually took only 1 or 2 applicants from say Stanford, which you might regard as California's equivalent of Harvard. </p>
<p>Now I can't say for sure that what I observed at Davis is true of all vet schools. But it seemed to me that for vet school admissions the reputation of the Animal Science department you came from was much more significant than the reputation of the University you came from. I haven't looked into it, but I'm not sure that Harvard even has an Animal Science program.</p>
<p>So if being a vet is your number one goal, be sure you research carefully how well Harvard (or any other school for that matter) will prepare you for vet school admissions. Vet school admissions is a brutal business. Tougher than medical school admissions. If it's your true goal, you need to do everything you can to maximize your chances. </p>
<p>If on the other hand, your goal is to attend Harvard and see what sort of career develops out of that rich educational experience, maybe vet school or maybe something else (which is a perfectly okay approach in my book), then sure, go for Harvard full bore. But like others have said, develop your list from the bottom up, not top down.</p>
<p>Erin, I don't see why you start a discussion and then get all offended when people actually discuss. Take it easy.</p>
<p>"I have very few EC's to speak of because I pursue my own interests and do things to achieve very specific goals." Pursuing one's own interests and DOING THINGS to...blah blah does constitute EC's. Be sure you are not omiting things that you do--you don't need to be in something formal for it to be an EC.</p>
<p>I don't know what your chances are at Harvard. It appears that you fit the profile of a decently qualified APPLICANT, except a bit low SAT as said.) But so do most of the people who apply, so admissions are unpredictable and you should view Harvard as an extreme long shot. I don't see a super strong hook EC wise, but you do have the geographical diversity that will be in your favor, could be a tipping factor.</p>
<p>An essay about your horse, 4H and vet works might be interesting and different enough. The paid chem research is great. Avoiding history and art are not a plus. There are minimum req's in Hist, so be sure you have met them.</p>
<p>Does your school pick the Val a year ahead?</p>
<p>Bettina - I don't think Erin acted offended. Maybe you misunderstood a humorous remark she made -- the little green face with the big teeth means "big grin" :D</p>
<p>I don't know about Erin, but sometimes by the end of junior year nothing short of a natural disaster will change the lay of the land in terms of class standing. At least that is what my daughter assures me in terms of her status as salutatorian-- apparently she is numerically far enough behind next year's val and far enough ahead of the kid in #3 place that from a statistical standpoint, it would be very difficult for the positions to change. I personally am not going to count our chickens on this, but D. is already planning her speech. ;)</p>
<p>Erin, You've received a lot of good advice so far. I would agree with the posters who tell you to keep Harvard on your list, but also have a balanced slate of matches and sure bets.</p>
<p>One thing I'd like to add is that sometimes a student has to make up his/her own EC's. Take the word literally: extra curricular meaning outside of school related academics. Your involvement with horses -- both through 4H and your personal activities -- makes a perfect EC. Explain it, develop it, make sure your essays, resumes, and possibly even recommendations reflect it. An unusual EC can also be a hook and I think in your case, your farm background plus horse related activities combine into a very good hook. Again, it's up to you to translate this hook into something that is meaningful to the college community. Unless they actually have an equestrian team they're not likely to care if you train horses or rabbits, but the EXPERIENCE -- what you learned from it, what it means you can bring to the college table -- is the point.</p>
<p>I don't have a lot of feeling on whether or not you'd be a good fit for Harvard. After you visit you can come back and tell us what you think. My son, who only ever thought he could be happy in an urban environment because that was all he knew, ended up at an insular rural college (Williams). In most cases, no college provides everything on a student's wish list. They end up making trade-offs when what matters most to them rises to the top.</p>
<p>It sounds like you're just at the starting point in making your wish list. Once you've had a chance to think more about what YOU want in a college (e.g. big/small/medium, rural/suburban/urban, liberal/less so) you'll be able to make a balanced short list. Sometimes it's impossible to know before you visit (and sometimes even after you visit :)) so I hope you'll be able to see some of these colleges this summer. </p>
<p>There are quite a small liberal arts colleges (LACs) in the Northeast and in the Midwest that are in rural environments and that lend themselves to horse related activities. None -- as far as I know -- has a veterinary program per se but most would offer a pre-vet program and most send kids on to graduate veterinary degrees. Some that come to mind are Skidmore, Mt. Holyoke, Williams, Hamilton, Colgate, Colby, Kenyon, Grinnell. . .there are so many others. If you decide you want a big research university, then Cornell, Dartmouth and many of the state universities are excellent choices.</p>
<p>Along with making your college list from the bottom up, you should also be taking a serious look at your family's finances. Some kids find that they need to make a financial safety list as well as an academic safety list. Do this sooner, rather than later.</p>
<p>Commenting on Coeur's thoughtful post:</p>
<p>When I was at Harvard, I never met a student who wanted to be a vet. The top careers that students wanted to go into were medicine, business and law. </p>
<p>I would imagine that's the same phenomenon that occurs at Stanford. As a result, it may be that the 2 students whom Coureur remembers being accepted at Davis' vet school from Stanford were the only 2 students from Stanford who applied.</p>
<p>My guess is that if you went to a place like Harvard, did well in whatever coursework is considered prevet and continued to have a strong background in terms of ECs/summer jobs, etc. related to animals, that you'd still have strong chances of getting into vet school.</p>
<p>If you have concerns about this, however, call or e-mail Harvard's career office, which has info about what happens to students after graduation. They also probably could put you in contact with Harvard grads who are veterinarians. You also might be able to find some Harvard educated vets by Googling.</p>
<p>Your wanting to be a vet would make you stand out in the admissions pool at Harvard. It wants to accept students with aspirations to go into a variety of fields, and it wants its alum to be leaders in all facets of society. It also wants to create a diverse class.</p>