<p>I play the violin in a proffessional orchestra that earns me around 30/hour. I know this doesn't really qualify as a hook, but will it aid me in some amounts when I apply to the ivies next year? It's definitely my biggest achievement as of far. </p>
<p>Any feedback regarding this would be appreciated.</p>
<p>In my experience, adcoms know how to judge awards etc. </p>
<p>You should also know that the ivies are awash with violin playing applicants. I suspect the only way you'd have a hook is if you had received some national level recognition. </p>
<p>Don't take me wrong - high level violin achievement shows devotion, commitment, skill etc., all of which are good. But these are pretty much necessary conditions for any elite college applicant.</p>
<p>Thanks, but my specific question was: will playing in a pro orchestra aid me in any way.</p>
<p>Yes. It will aid you, eapecially assuming that your professional experience means that you play at a level well beyond All-State. But you will be competing for admission to the Ivies against many other accomplished violinists who have won competitions; have attended prestigious pre-college programs, such as the one at Julliard; and have high SATs, GPAs, and other ECs. If you have those things as well, then your professional experience could be a difference maker.</p>
<p>As I posted in your other thread...a LOT of violin players apply to the Ivies. As PDaddy says above, many are accomplished players who have received numerous honors (add to his list: Played in summer programs like Aspen and Tanglewood). You haven't really told anyone anything about your specific accomplishments in music...have you won awards or competitions, are you an All State caliber player perhaps concertmaster? These are the things that would distinguish you from all the other violin players applying to the Ivies. My gut feeling is that this would be a very insignificant admissions tip for you. You would need to be a top level student with outstanding essays, stats and recommendations in addition to your music playing. Do you plan to major in music performance because if you do, some of the Ivies do not even have this option for an undergrad.</p>
<p>By now you should have your answer. Playing in a pro orchestra is not likely to be of any help.</p>
<p>It is of no help if no one knows the caliber of the orchestra, how well you play and what it took for you to get there. I suspect there is a story and maybe a "hook" but it won't do you any good unless you can explain and sell it.</p>
<p>When I was in HS (back in the dark ages) I got paid to sing in weddings...$50 per song (no kidding). I did not have to "audition"...my jobs came by word of mouth. I do not believe that this would have been a "hook" for me as an entering college student. Of course, back in the "dark ages" no one even discussed hooks.</p>
<p>"By now you should have your answer. Playing in a pro orchestra is not likely to be of any help.</p>
<p>It is of no help if no one knows the caliber of the orchestra, how well you play and what it took for you to get there. I suspect there is a story and maybe a "hook" but it won't do you any good unless you can explain and sell it."</p>
<p>I don't know what you mean. The orchestra I play in is like any other proffessional orchestar with pro musicians. I got in like everyone else had to. I auditioned anonymously and was hired. That's what it "took" for me to get in there.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks to anyone who provided helpful feedback.</p>
<p>Do you know if there are many viola players who apply to the ivies (i also play violin but not as well). Would playing viola in various orchestras and chamber groups be a hook? How good do you have to be to send in a tape as supplementary material? </p>
<p>Thanks for any advice</p>
<p>Seth, I disagree somewhat with the other responses you have received. Playing with a professional orchestra is beyond what most high school kids do, in my experience -- depending on how you elaborate on it, it might be a tip factor. This assumes, of course, that you have grades and test scores in the range for the schools you are applying to. My S played in a regional youth ensemble, with required annual auditions, and it came up at most of his interviews. Most kids applying to competitive schools have something special -- yours is probably your professional experience. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think auditioning for and being accepted into an orchestra where you actually get paid is a little less common than all-state.</p>
<p>My understanding is that most college orchestras are in need of viola players. They are not as plentiful as violin players.</p>
<p>Seth Blue...re: your pro orchestra...is it a small town orchestra or a large city one. Are you a musician's union member? I will stick my neck out and say that if you are a paying member of the musician's union and are playing in a pro orchestra on a regular basis (not as a substitute), you might have something going for you. THAT is the kind of information you are not forthcoming with here. If it is available, it might be beneficial to be very upfront on your applications to the colleges.</p>
<p>I live in canada, and the orchestra I play in is the one of the two biggest in my province. And yes, I am part of a musician's union.</p>
<p>Seth,</p>
<p>The problem you will run into is that adcoms will not know what your achievement means. They have no context within which to evaluate it.</p>
<p>IF you told them you played regularly in a top, name orchestra, one which the adcoms knew, it would help, of course. I doubt, though, that an adcom would know how to judge a canadian orchestra (OK, maybe Montreal and Toronto?).</p>
<p>In the admissions business, you do not get the benefit of doubt.</p>
<p>I see, thanks for the feedback, but is there a way to circumvent such an obstacle? I've always been uder the, apparently, misconception that the admin folks would know the caliber of your orchestra, not because they have heard it, but rather because it is necessary to specify the quality of the orchestra. At least, that was my intention.</p>
<p>Anyway, is there an equilibrium from which all orchestras are judged or are circumstances relative? I'm hoping it's the former.</p>
<p>Seth -- I actually think it will be a positive thing. First, it will be positive in the sense that any "job" will be a positive. </p>
<p>Second, it will be seen as a "commitment" -- It takes a certain level of commitment just to get proficient on any instrument. (My oldest played piano for many years, received an "outstanding performer" award in 11th grade, and Penn commented on it at an info session.) </p>
<p>Third, if the colleges you are applying to have a music department, and those people see your application in any way - like if you send a tape - they will understand what it means even if they aren't familiar with the particular orchestra.</p>
<p>Fourth, if music is that big a part of your life, it will show up all over your application. Under the "job" part. Under the "extra curricular" part. Under your "classes" (orchestra?). Under your "memberships" - the union. Perhaps in your essays. It will come across as a passion, and that's a good thing.</p>
<p>Violinists are a dime a dozen, but GOOD violinists are not necessarily. The really good ones are applying to music schools.</p>
<p>So, yes, I DO think it is going to help.</p>
<p>In the US about 20% of males and about 30% of females play instruments in high school. For those kids who do well enough academically to consider applying to the ivies, the percentages are much higher. Many of the kids who take music in HS also take private lessons. Some develop a fairly decent or advanced level of proficiency and also participate in music camps and competitions. The ivies and many other very selective colleges do not offer music performance majors. They have plenty of proficient musicians to fill their orchestras. On the surface it would appear that proficiency in music would not be much of an advantage.</p>
<p>There is, however, a very strong correlation between proficiency in music and acceptance by selective colleges. Do adcoms look favorably on music training as an indication of determination and discipline? Or do the kids who excel in music also happen to excel in academics? Probably some of both. If you do have demonstrated skills in music, I would try to highlight them as much as possible.</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how important music is to an ivy admission, but I can give you some interesting facts to think about.</p>
<p>College music majors have the highest acceptance rate if they apply for medical school. The rate of acceptance is considerably higher than for biology or other science majors. </p>
<p>Last May my daughter "graduated" from a conservatory precollege program. Of the approximately 50 graduates about a third were going to a variety of schools, some noted for programs in music education. Another third were going into conservatories. Another third were going to the Ivies or very selective colleges. I was amazed at that percentage. The following month my D graduated from an advantaged, suburban HS. Of the 650 graduates, there were 4-5 kids going to Cornell - which has a state endowed college. There was only one other ivy acceptance. Yale accepted one young lady who just happended to be first violin in the HS orchestra.</p>
<p>There is clearly more than a coincidental relationship between music performance and acceptance by the ivies. I would suggest you do everything you can to highlight your music successes.</p>
<p>edad</p>
<p>That is fascinating! Thanks for sharing!</p>
<p>S plays bassoon and sax. He's won regional recognition like principal bassoon in our county's honor band.</p>
<p>Good luck to OP and all the other musicians out there!</p>
<p>FresnoMom</p>
<p>seth blue, mark me down as impressed if you are making $30/hr already.</p>
<p>I believe you should visit the schools and schedule a lesson with a violin teacher. Also, talk to the orchestra director. If the school offers auditions, do one. Otherwise submit a CD with your application. If they are impressed, they will put in an admissions tip for you. Also, apply Early Decision. Thats when the tips have most effect.</p>
<p>Also, have a broad range of schools on your list. They are many fantastic universities that are not in that athletic conference.</p>
<p>I second what WS17 said. My child is also a musician and also graduated from a pre-college program as Edads child did. (The one my child graduated from typically sends 25% of its graduates to Ivies, 25% to other highly selective schools, 25% to top conservatories and 25% to all other schools.) My child applied to four highly selective schools where my D/S was able to arrange a meeting with the orchestra or music director and my D/S was accepted at three and wait listed at the other. Without the meetings, I dont think the results would have been as good. Also, the world of music is fairly small. There is a good chance that there are violinists in your orchestra who either know directly the violin teachers at the schools in which you are interested or have studied with the same teachers. Ask around and see if anyone in your orchestra can get you an introduction to the violin teachers at the school or would be willing to offer a recommendation on your behalf. The admission's officers are not going to be able to put your accomplishment in context but they will ask the music director to do that so the more you can get him or her on your side the better.</p>
<p>thanks for the responses everyone. I'll definitely heed them.</p>