Hopkins vs. Brown

Colleges and Universities A-Z Johns Hopkins University
1

Hello!
I first want to start off by saying thanks for taking the time to read this post.

So now that I’ve heard back from all my schools in terms of where I’ve been accepted, it’s finally time for me to make a decision on where I want to go. I’ve been accepted to 9 schools and I’ve narrowed it down to two: Johns Hopkins and Brown.

I really like the fact that both of these schools have a pretty open curriculum, which is a good asset considering I hope to double major. In terms of cost, both of them are almost the same (literally there is only a couple of hundred dollars separating them). I live in Virginia, so Maryland is really close compared to Rhode Island, but I don’t mind being that far away from home.

But of course, the most important thing is academics. I definitely plan on majoring in Neuroscience, and hopefully double majoring with Public Health as well, and I also plan to go on a pre-med track. I know that Johns Hopkins has a great science program in general and lots of research. But, I’m a little concerned about the environment. I know that the whole “Hopkins is really competitive” stereotype might be overplayed, but it’s hard to not keep that in your mind. On the other hand, Brown is said to be more “laid back,” but I’m wondering how much of that is a stereotype too, considering that it’s pretty selective in the first place.

Anyways, I’m not even sure if I’m making any coherent sense, but I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on the issue. Thanks again!

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I would pick Brown.

I was a graduate student at Hopkins some time ago and I taught classes and honestly, the undergrads didn’t blow me away. However, it is more competitive than it used to be, so maybe the caliber of students and the classroom vibe has improved. This also may vary according to major.

The surrounding area of Brown is nicer, IMO. It’s adjacent to downtown and the immediate neighborhood by campus is quite nice. Great architecture, nice restaurants, coffee shops, bars, etc.

Brown’s acceptance rate was about 9% this year, so I don’t think “laid back” applies. However, I think that the learning environment is more collaborative than competitive from what I know of students who have gone there and professors who teach there.

If I remember correctly, Brown has a well-regarded neuroscience program.

Have you visited both campuses? An overnight visit and/or sitting in on a class might help in making your decision.

Congrats - great choices, both!

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Howdy! First of all, congrats on getting into nine different schools, and double congrats on your admission to both Brown and JHU. Both of these are awesome schools and attending either one (and doing well at them) would ensure admission into a wide variety of medical schools. That being said, you shouldn’t choose an undergrad with medical school primarily in mind since undergrad is supposed to be its own stand-alone experience, and at the end of the day students enter medical schools from the full gamut of undergrad programs (public, private, liberal arts, etc.) Based on what you what you want to study (Neuro and Public Health), I personally would choose Hopkins since these truly are some of the best programs the school has to offer. I recently posted in a thread discussing the benefits of studying Neuro with someone considering Cornell and Hopkins, and that discussion addresses many of the same things I would say to you: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/johns-hopkins-university/1878658-johns-hopkins-vs-cornell.html#latest

Additionally, the public health program at Hopkins (both at an undergraduate and graduate level) is considered one of the best in the world (http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/social-sciences-public-health). Hopkins has the #1 graduate public health program (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-health-schools/public-health-rankings) and as an undergrad Public Health major you take many of your classes at the graduate school (at least 15 credits). But beyond just telling you USN’s opinion that Hopkins is so well-regarded, I can even tell you why! As with why the Neuro program is so great at Hopkins, so is this why the School of Public Health is so well-regarded… amazing faculty, flexible programs, support and…research! Hopkins is THE research giant, outspending every other school by a landslide for the last 35 years, and much of this money is in healthcare, biological sciences and public health. JHU students have so many opportunities to do research (which is required for Neuro, encouraged for Public Health, and the Public Health does require an Applied Experience http://krieger.jhu.edu/publichealth/academics/), and participating in research is essential for a quality undergrad science experience (read the Cornell discussion for my elaboration on this). Secondly, Baltimore is a big city with a long history of racial problems, poverty, educational gaps, drug abuse, crime, etc., and while this DOESN’T mean that you won’t be safe at Hopkins (read here about JHU/Baltimore safety: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/johns-hopkins-university/1821701-questions-about-baltimore.html#latest), it does mean you get nearly unparalleled opportunities for community outreach and truly making a difference while getting great educational experiences. I will admit though that Providence does also have a diverse population with crime, etc. (all on a much smaller scale, but they are there), so I’m sure Brown would offer you some of these experiences as well. I will also note that Brown just started their graduate school in Public Health and (while this is my opinion and general commentary) some avoid new schools since they are not established, not well-integrated and typically have to work out kinks in their curriculum, etc.

As for the concern for competition, of course the stereotype is Brown is laid-back and Hopkins is death, but is anything really that cut and dry? Do you really think the premeds at Brown are just smelling the roses and frolicking?That there is no stress to do well in Organic Chemistry and outperform their peers so that they can get into Brown School of Medicine? At the end of the day, this career path attracts hard-working, competitive students (NOT CUTTHROAT! There is a big difference!), and you will find them wherever you go. You can read by many posters on the JHU thread (both past and current students) that Hopkins is competitive (yes, everyone wants to do well! Gasp!), but has become a much more collaborative school across many of its disciplines. There has been a big push to greatly reduce the number of classes that have set grade quotas (“only 30% of the students at most can get A’s”) such that there are almost none of them in the Neuro program, and only a few premed courses while I was there (Orgo and Biochem, and hopefully this has changed). Curriculum that more heavily emphasizes team projects and group learning has probably had a big impact on whatever the environment may have been in the past. Also, the fact that it is a small school also makes people who initially think in terms of “me vs them” quickly either change their attitude or otherwise find themselves picked last for the proverbial kickball game.

I can also tell you that I have yet to meet anyone from Hopkins who went on to say that medical school was more difficult than their undergrad experience. I found comfort in knowing that the study skills and work ethic I developed at Hopkins would be a smooth transition into medical school (and it was), and my foundation let me succeed in med school while some of my peers had a rocky start. I will admit that Hopkins has a much higher per capita of premeds than Brown, which some people like and others don’t. Some people find comfort in the camaraderie and benefit from being around others who are in the same boat as them and doing the same things as them. Others think that it’s over-saturating and find it stressful. That just comes down to the person. Honestly, if you’re being stressed out from the people around you then I wouldn’t be blaming other students but would simply say you need to find avenues to relax and put things in perspective. But this is a valid complaint nonetheless. Overall though, the experience always depends on the person. I actively sought out study buddies and found a great group of premeds that worked together, discussed answers for hw, endured the MCATS etc. and never would have thought that I was at a school that was even considered to have a bad reputation.

Don’t pick Brown over Hopkins simply because everyone will tell you “Hopkins, isn’t that the diehard school?” and “Brown, oh, that’s the laid-back school.” Do more research and consider the points I’ve brought up. Overall, given what you want to study and your career interests I would choose Hopkins (but then again, this is the Hopkins thread, so what would you expect?).

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@mamaedefamilia Thanks for your input! I did get a chance to tour brown over the spring break but unfortunately, I didn’t get a chance to see Brown. I did hear that Brown has a good neuroscience program, but I’m wondering how it compares to Hopkins. I’m sure both schools have amazing academics, which is why it’s really hard to make this decision. My main concern with Brown in comparison to Hopkins is that I won’t have as many opportunities to do research or work alongside graduate students/professors. How do you feel about Brown’s programs in that regard?

@NixonDenier Wow! Thank you very much for taking the time to really delve into some answers for my questions! I do agree that Hopkins does have renowned Neuroscience and Public Health programs so that is something I am taking into consideration. I also love how much research you can do at Hopkins even early on in your undergraduate career. I think you hit the nail on the head with one of my concerns, which is the “over-saturation” of pre-med students. I mean I think it’s great that so many people are interested in the same things, but I can see how it could get overwhelming. How did you personally deal with this?

Thanks again for responding!

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^ In response to living amongst an abundance of premeds, the most overwhelming part of it for me is the pressure to compare yourself to others, considering that my peers are doing amazing things of all sorts. My knee-jerk reaction to this environment at first was to go to all the premed club meetings and premed related seminars on how to get into medical school, etc., etc. But then I realized that was ultimately stressing me out more without actually changing anything. What ended up helping me is having a small group of premed friends to go through the premed struggle with. Also, having non-premed friends and engaging in experiences completely unrelated to medicine helps put my experiences in perspective, as @NixonDenier said.

At the end of the day, you can’t do everything or be great at everything. So in a way, the amount of premeds really pushed me to find the things that I was passionate about. Both career-type things, and just new ways of having fun. Focusing on those things is what keeps me from getting swept up in the stress and driven culture of premed life.

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Honestly, almost all of the pressure is self-imposed when you start delving into this with people, and even when it is external (being around students who ask what you got on the test as soon as it is handed back or the people frantically running around before an exam pulling their hair out), it still is on you to manage your stress. Simply blaming other people for things that affect you rather than taking action within your control is never a good way to solve a problem. I always think it odd that people complain about this as premeds since eventually you will have to face this environment in medical school. Med school is (surprise, surprise) a bunch of premeds all grown up, but you will still encounter people with the same franticness and the “pressure-cooker” environment that some people try so hard to avoid in undergrad. Even if you somehow dodge it as an undergrad, and as a med student, most physicians are juggling dozens of patients everyday as they diagnose, treat, and check the progress of every patient, each day. Remember that a simple mistake can end your career, can land you in financial ruin and maybe even jail. You don’t think physicians have extremely stressful lives? You have a nurse saying one thing, a technician saying another, lab results coming in, pharmacists wanting you to reconcile the medication list, insurance billing (if you have a private practice), trying to distinguish drug-seeking behavior from patients in genuine pain, and all while trying to be a responsible parent to your 2.4 children at home and an honorable citizen of your city, state and country who pays his taxes and does his jury duty and remembers to wash the car only after checking that it won’t rain. You can’t hide from stress, it will find you - that’s life. So how does anyone do it? They learn to compartmentalize the stress and learn to locate stressors and how to effectively remove or negate them. Whether you want to learn the skills for it now, during med school or as an adult, it will come, and it’s up to you to learn what balance you need in your life to keep your sanity, health and to maximize productivity.

I, like many people, maintain hobbies as outlets for the stress. I like to cook my own meals - I find it relaxing and keep it novel. I jog to clear my mind and play the piano to let out the feels. I enjoy the TV running in the background while I study. I can’t procrastinate or the self-loathing ensues. I wake up a half-hour early before exams to stretch. I take deep breathes whenever I feel that it’s all too much. I learned a lot of this at Hopkins and found the balance then rather than now, where things only get harder and the penalties greater. You will find what works for you, everyone living manages it to varying degrees because life is just too much otherwise. Gone are the days of the siesta and the fika, at least in this country. The onus is on you to figure this stuff out, and the sooner you do, the better off you’ll be. Wife number two won’t care that you didn’t figure this out sooner. So come to Hopkins and have a happy marriage that doesn’t end with your assets being divided up and your children resenting you for a stepmom that “never really loved us.”

Final note, I realize Hopkins is labeled a premed magnet, but honestly, at most 50% of students are initially premed and that will go down to about half by senior year (mainly because people acknowledge the amount of work involved and realize there are easier ways to make money, gain prestige and make a difference in the world - not because of some institutional weeding process). So we’re talking about over 600 hundred students in your class freshman year who will have no interest in medicine that you can mingle with and forget about whatever premed problem is on your mind for the day. Join clubs, go on dates, when a test goes poorly go with friends to the local shelter and play with puppies. There are plenty of distractions for a college student, we’re young with large amounts of free time - normally it’s the focusing on work that’s the bigger problem for most of us.

BTW, I realize now you didn’t necessarily say you’re interested in medicine. Nonetheless, I believe this applies to almost any profession where you’re making important decisions that people are depending upon you for (and this includes being a parent).

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@OnMyWay2013 Thanks for the advice! I think looking at other hobbies and making different kinds of friends will help a lot so I’ll keep that in mind!

@NixonDenier “Simply blaming other people for things that affect you rather than taking action within your control is never a good way to solve a problem.”

Please don’t put words in my mouth. You’ve made this statement twice now and I’ve never made the implication that this is other people’s fault. When I say I’m concerned I would be overhwlemed with the saturation of pre-med students at Hopkins, of course that is a personal problem, but it’s a concern nonetheless that I have when choosing between two amazing schools.

I do, however, agree that Hopkins does appear to prepare you better for medical school in terms of academic rigor and pressure.

P.S. If I don’t come to Hopkins it’ll be my husband who divorces me :wink: (But I’m hoping most of that was sarcasm anyway)

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Oops, meant no offense. I wasn’t directing those comments to you since you’re right, you never said those things. When I started off by saying “when you delve into this with people…” I meant that to read that when I’ve had previous conversations with Hopkins students in the past this has been brought up, not with you. Clearly I’ve thought about this before, and you’re bound to hear it come up when people complain at Hopkins that they are feeling stressed out by other’s actions. It was tough to see how it would really affect people and you just want to shake them and say “you can solve it now and it only requires you!” But it’s a skill that just takes time to learn. My whole post, which delved into some serious sarcasm, was more a message to them than to you. Sometimes I try and go beyond just directly addressing the OP since many people read these threads and I think it’s important for people (not you, personally, you seem very mature with a genuine concern, besides, you’re not even at the school yet so how do I know how you’ll act?) to realize that this happens and how best to combat it in your own life.

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@allthingstesla We asked about research opportunities on our Brown tour (daughter is interested in neuroscience) and were assured that they are available as early as freshman year, but I would do your due diligence and ask. Make contact with some professors at both schools - say you are have been admitted and that you are honing in on a final decision and are interested in undergraduate research. See how responsive they are. Do they email back promptly? Does the response seem perfunctory or more engaged? Etc.

Also, if you decide to back away from pre-med, what other majors interest you. Check out some departments and see what they look like.

Overall, I think that Brown is higher caliber than JHU. For pre-med specifically, probably not, if you assume that the ranking of the medical school carries over to undergraduate training. The public health program at JHU also is superb. As I’m sure you’ve been told, getting into med school is primarily a matter of GPA and MCAT scores and the reputation of your degree-granting institution is somewhat secondary. Would JHU give you a bit of an edge over directional state, all else being equal? Certainly. Would the difference between Brown and JHU be meaningful if you get to that point? I can’t say for sure, but I doubt it.

Again, you have two wonderful choices in front of you. Either will provide an excellent education.

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If you do email professors though please read about their research in advance, ask thoughtful questions and be respectful. There is no need for faculty to be inundated with general emails about research opportunities - that’s not their job. I think Admissions and department heads can address general inquiry questions at this point, there’s no need to inquire with specific faculty before you’re even a student.

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Do visit the schools. I feel hopkins’ science programs and under grad science/engineering programs as a whole are at a different level compared to brown (further buttressed by rankings). Having taught brown and jhu graduates in various majors at Stanford as a PH.D. student more recently than some on here in interdisciplinary fields,i would hold the hopkins undergrads in higher regard. There are ample opportunities at hopkins via PURA and open minded professors as well. I personally had a blast at hopkins as did many of my friends who are now at or have graduated from top grad schools like harvard and stanford with competitive fellowships from the schools. You can both have fun and do well at hopkins.

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@mamaedefamilia Thanks! I’m sure there are great research opportunities available at Brown, but I do think that Hopkins takes the cake on that one considering how much funding they get in the first place. I’ll try to look around for any programs that Brown that sound interesting though!

@blah2008 Thanks for the insight! I’ll keep your perspective in mind when making my decision!

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I was in the same situation, but I ended up choosing Brown in the end. I visited JHU and loved it. The students were super friendly and I loved the overall vibes of the school…but my heart was already set on Brown. I see that you already made your decision. Good luck in JHU! I know you’ll thrive and have fun there. :slight_smile: