Hi all,
We have been lucky to get into both HM and Riverdale for Grade 6. In making our decision, we are relying on matriculation stats heavily. Given our impression of reputations and historical data, we had expected HM to show up much stronger acceptances in Ivy and Ivy-like colleges. However, recent data shows Riverdale outperforming HM by a wide margin. It seems like some top colleges have reduced their intake from HM and diversified away. Does anyone have any insight into this and what might be the reason behind this trend?
Thanks in advance.
Based upon those 2 school options, what will be certain is that you will make a huge investment in education in the next 7 years . Hope it works out.
My PoV is that an applicant applying to college without the hooks listed below would have the same results if they attended HM or Riverdale.
A couple of things to consider: The matriculation data includes recruited athletes, legacies, donor’s kids, and at some schools, faculty brats. Those categories tend to be overrepresented at these schools. The unknown is where these parents went to college and/or work.
For the rest, colleges admit applicants, not secondary schools. A top private may allow the student to develop into a stronger applicant, but so can other schools. Choosing a school simply based on matriculation data is folly.
15 Likes
If it is a “wide margin,” why are you thinking twice about it?
1 Like
Those schools have very different cultures. Which one does your child prefer and which feels more comfortable to your family? They both have outstanding records of college admissions and who knows what will happen in 7 years. Your child may wind up moving back to public school or another private school. I would suggest choosing the school that works for now, college will work out.
10 Likes
Congratulations on great admissions result for your kid! I don’t know the differences between the schools you are asking about, but this question gets discussed a lot here regarding other super competitive high schools.
Cutting to the chase, colleges accept students, not schools. The days where prep schools are feeders are long gone. Matriculation data are so muddied by external elements beyond the control of the school or the student as to be useless.
I am sure both schools will provide the excellent education that can position a student for good college admissions outcomes - so matriculation is not the deciding factor many think it is. Your kid will thrive and be best positioned for college in the high school that fits the kid’s learning style and personality.
6 Likes
That really doesn’t matter. A top student at HM will get into higher-ranked colleges than an average student at Riverdale. Now, which school do you think your child will have a better experience? The better the fit, the easier it is to be one of those top students.
3 Likes
First off, take the number of HM and Riverdale students getting into top colleges and divide it by half. Bc at least half of these kids get into top schools bc their parents own sports teams, are movie actors/directors, well-known politicians, etc. Even regular legacy kids are having a hard time getting into T20. Only the major donor kids (meaning many millions donated) are getting in. (We are at a similar school, so I know the kids/families.) For an unhooked or average donor kid, I would choose Riverdale. For now, Riverdale does seem to be getting more unhooked kids into top schools, also, less pressured environment overall.
I was just like you in 2014 when deciding the best boarding school to send my son. I carefully scoured the matriculation lists and created elaborate spreadsheets. I figured that there was a direct correlation between percent of graduates who go onto attend Ivy+ colleges and the odds of admission.
This couldn’t be farther from the truth. The numbers are baked heavily in favor of legacy, athlete, donor, facbrat and URM candidates. Once you take those hooked candidates out of the equation, the admission rates are similar to many suburban public high schools.
7 Likes
Congrats! Both schools can lead to admissions at an elite university for students with exemplary performance. There is no right or wrong answer here.
I would focus choosing the school that appears to be the best fit for your child (and your family) – it is likely that he/she will be happier (don’t discount the importance of this) and perform better (which could lead to more college options) in an environment that is the better fit.
FWIW my nephew had the same options and his parents sent him to Riverdale (and my nephew is thriving there).
3 Likes
And in NYC similar to the highly competitive public schools.
1 Like
IME, the selective NYC public schools (both specialized and screened) seem to have as good, if not better, results for unhooked students, YMMV.
1 Like
probably true, but the process for an incoming 6th grader to get there between middle school and then high school makes the private school process seem easy.
1 Like
Agreed, signed a vet of the NYC public school process.
2 Likes
Thanks. I have been noodling over this issue, but this additional layer of intel I have not been able to gather, and schools do not disclose that data. How did you obtain that level of detail?
There is a scatterplot that is widely used in college admissions (Naviance and SCOIR). It plots GPA vs standardized test score (ACT or SAT). Then within the scatterplot various colors are used to depict acceptance vs reject vs waitlist. This is a visual way to see what the threshold for a certain college is. As you can imagine there are clear outliers on these scatterplots.
The college counselors have a special version of the scatterplots that eliminate the legacy and other special candidates. Sometimes they will show them to students.
Pick three colleges: high reach, match, safety. Then ask Horace Mann and Riverdale to send you their scatterplots for these 3 colleges. You’ll get a sense of what I mean.
My son attended a boarding school and is now a senior at a top college. But I think his outcome would have largely been the same if he attended the local public school. The boarding school did help him 1) learn how to live away from home 2) time management skills 3) critical thinking/writing. I don’t think he would have learned these skills at the local PS. His first year of college was “easier than boarding school” according to him.
But you’re looking at spending nearly $400k. So please don’t spend this type of cash with the belief that its a sure-shot to the ivy league. It definitely isn’t. If your kid graduates outside of the top 2 deciles at either school, it will not be easy to get into a top college.
4 Likes
Thank you! This is very specific and helpful response. I will dig into this. Highly appreciate your kind insights.
I agree that this is probably the case for the top 5-10% of the class at either a selective public or private. After that point, for a variety of reasons, the privates have an edge, and the farther down you go in imputed class rank, the more significant that edge gets.
People aren’t paying $60,000 per year for high school for there not to be a value-add.
2 Likes
You are ignoring the “value-add” of other things, from actually having a better high school to “prestige factor”. For some parents who live in not-so-good schools districts and do not have decent magnet schools either, private schools may be the only viable choice. Some kids also thrive at boarding schools, and there are very few public magnet boarding schools (like IMSA), and these are only open to the residents of that state.
On the other extreme, the parents who obsess over “getting their kid into an elite college”, those who will pay $60,000 for a somewhat elevated chance for this to happen, are also obsessed over getting their kid into an “elite” high school.
Good public magnet schools provide the exact same boost for non-hooked kids as do equivalent private high schools. Any additional numbers who matriculate to “elite” colleges from private schools are because of legacy and wealth, with regional effects.
If a student attends one of the Chicago magnet high schools, that student actually has a better chance to be accepted to an “elite” college, especially those in the Midwest, than a student who attends a private Chicago area high school. They will also have a better chance at being accepted to an “elite” midwestern college than if they had attended an “elite” NE private high schools.
1 Like