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Uh, actually, I think they are PRECISELY holding on to my argument. After all, you just said it yourself - these students who prefer math/physics usually go on to study something else. But why? Why do they prefer to study something else? Why not just study math or physics? I think it's because they understand that math or physics is not as marketable as studying something like engineering.
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<p>If you are refering to the fact that most people who prefer math/physics in high school don't major in Math or Physics in college but rather pick something else I really have to laugh. For starters I would like to point out that studying engineering is virtually continuation of your typical high school physics class. And it is also of note that in college you can major in probably a hundred or so different subjects, where in high school you are really only exposed to a handful (typically 5-8 subjects). In college you are offered the opportunity to explore your academic interests, in high school you really are limited. You can't take engineering classes in high school like you can in college, I would bet that if you could a lot more students would take them because they prefer that to math/physics. If this is what you are claiming, you are basing your argument off of an assumption that you cannot support. Of course students who prefer math/physics in high school are going to major in other subjects, there are hundreds more to pick, all of which you can study at a much greater depth than you can in high school and are offered the opportunity to take obscure classes in nearly every subject. You don't get that in high school, so I really don't see how you can compare the two </p>
<p>Finally, I don't think high school students understand that math/physics is not as marketable as engineering. For one, I am not totally sold that it is and I am thinking about it, high school students don't think like that. High school students are still believing that they should study what they love. </p>
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Why are there more engineering students than math/physics students? I think, again, it's because people understand that engineering is more marketable than is math or physics.
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<p>I think it has to do with the fact that engineering is much more tangible to the common student. For the most part engineering is not proofed based, but rather hands on learning where you get work with jet engines, circuits, or whatever your field's devices are. To most students engineering makes a lot more sense than pure physics/math, that is why I think they like it. Again, I really do not think that your typical student thinks about the marketability of a major, particularly when you are differentiating between physics/math and engineering.</p>
<p>Pure math and physics is heavily proof based and very theoretical with virtually no applications. Most people hate this, that is why I believe they don't study it, not because of its marketability.</p>
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Maybe they'd get only a 2.0. But that's still good enough to graduate. And I strongly suspect that it's better to get an engineering degree from a no-name school, even with only a 2.0, than it is to get a liberal arts degree from that same no-name school. Because, let's face it, with a liberal arts degree from a no-name school and only a 3.0 GPA, you're not going to be able to do much.
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<p>If this is the general premise to your argument I really don't know what else to say. I strongly disagree with your sentiment that people should go into college knowing that they are going to study something they hate and not do well in it just because they are studying a marketable degree, while in the meantime doing so poorly at obtaining this degree that they have made themselves unmarketable. I know several engineering students with gpa's hovering around the 2.5-2.7 range as an undergraduate who aren't working in engineering because they couldn't get jobs. A few of them are bartending, one works at a hotel, while most are picking up your odds and ends job in construction or some other form of manual labor. Engineers with 2.0 are not in high demand, and if you are lucky enough to get a job as an engineer you are going to be at the bottom of the barrel with virtually no room to move, that doesn't sound like an enjoyable career to me. A 2.0 puts you in that boat, there are going to be virtually no engineering jobs for you. Especially if the market is inundated with liberal arts majors flocking to engineering because the degree is "marketable". Engineering companies are already starting to outsource most of their work, don't give them anymore reason to do so by putting terrible labor into the workforce.</p>
<p>I really cannot fathom how you could possibly encourage someone who hates a subject to go study it and fail (I realize a 2.0 isn't failing per se, but you aren't going to be able to do much with a 2.0 even in engineering). I really do not get how you can think that way.</p>
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First of all, I don't think they really believe that ANY major is marketable. I think that they all understand that certain majors are more marketable than others. If not, then they should.
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<p>Just as you pointed out, people should exercise daily, and shouldn't smoke. There are a lot of things people should know that they don't, and I think this is one of them.</p>
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But even if you're right, that just reinforces the proposal I set before, which is that these students should be placed into engineering (or nursing or accounting) by default, and only if they actively choose to leave for another major should they be allowed to do so. Otherwise, they will end up, like now, choosing an unmarketable major and then finding out that they have difficulty in getting a job.
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<p>Wow. Thats all I can say. Place students into engineering (or any major) by default, good idea, lets do it for the good of the econonmy! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>This discussion is really going no where. I strongly disagree with many of your arguments about how students should choose a collegiate major just as you do with mine. You will never be able to convince me of many of things that you have said, and I'm sure the same can be said for you as well. We can sit here for 15 more pages harping at one another and trying to counter each others argument while essentially repeating ourselves over and over again, I for one have had enough. We have fundamental different beliefs and neither of us are apparently willing to budge. I think the wisest thing anyone (airbarr) has said in this entire discussion, follow your heart. </p>
<p>I'm sure you want the last word, so I'll let you have it</p>