<p>I would be wary of public U’s that include work study in a calculator. That fund is limited, and many students who want work study at a larger U are not going to get it. Where I worked, we “could” award it to students with EFC<8000 — but the reality was that it was all gone really early (first come, first served). If a student was told by the calculator that he would get WS, but didn’t, that would be an issue. And some schools probably leave off loans because so darn many people complain that loans aren’t financial aid (happens all the time on CC and in real life!).</p>
<p>I like your point that loans are not financial aid - did the calculator at James Madison University - they “awarded” us $20,000+ in private loans per their calculator - and showed that our need was fully met. Quite amusing.</p>
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<p>Is that caveat limited to publics, or would it also apply to privates?</p>
<p>Here’s one that asks for test scores and GPA - and if you enter a GPA under 3.0, it refuses to give you any answer, even though the school’s CDS shows that 23% of accepted applicants had GPAs below 3.</p>
<p>[Office</a> of Admission - Wittenberg University](<a href=“http://www4.wittenberg.edu/admission/facalc/]Office”>http://www4.wittenberg.edu/admission/facalc/)</p>
<p>[Common</a> Data Set 2009-10 | Wittenberg University](<a href=“http://www5.wittenberg.edu/administration/provost/ir/cds/0910.html]Common”>http://www5.wittenberg.edu/administration/provost/ir/cds/0910.html)</p>
<p>Here’s one that asks for test scores and GPA - and if you enter a GPA under 3.0, it refuses to give you any answer, even though the school’s CDS shows that 23% of accepted applicants had GPAs below 3.</p>
<p>Makes you think that some/all of those 23% are either full pay or athletes on scholarship. </p>
<p>*And some schools probably leave off loans because so darn many people complain that loans aren’t financial aid (happens all the time on CC and in real life!). *</p>
<p>The problem with including Parent Plus loans is that: a) some families can’t qualify; b) any school could throw in Plus loans and claim that they are “meeting need”.</p>
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<p>Nope, Division III.</p>
<p>How could loans not be considered financial aid? You need money to go to college, so you are provided with loans. You’re being helped with money - i.e. financial aid.</p>
<p>What, do people actually think they’re entitled to free money to go to school with?</p>
<p>I think the issue is that the award letter can be misleading to the financially naive. Say, for example, a student applied to a $30,000 school and has an EFC of $0. They are awarded a Pell grant and a Stafford loan. So far so good. Now maybe they have $20,000 or so in remaining need - which the school fills in by listing a private loan or a Parent Plus loan. The bottom line says that the student’s unmet need is $0 - the package has fully met their need. But it really is not clear on the cost of those loans - particularly when multiplied by 4 years. </p>
<p>I have seen situations like this - and really - the families don’t get it. I’m not sure private loans or Parent Plus loans should be lumped in as financial aid. At best - it is misleading and confusing.</p>
<p>This article adds to what I was saying:</p>
<p>[The</a> Associated Press: Officials target college financial aid letters](<a href=“http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j5dOt13qkRxulLwdOBXcQ3L7CIIA?docId=1bc3090dcab34f76a434b05386e54343]The”>http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j5dOt13qkRxulLwdOBXcQ3L7CIIA?docId=1bc3090dcab34f76a434b05386e54343)</p>
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<p>Yes, loans ARE financial aid … at least, Stafford & Perkins are. I do believe those should be included in the calculator. I don’t think any private or parent loans belong in the packaging in the calculator, but I do believe that they should be noted as available to families who qualify or can get a qualified cosigner — PLUS loans are an option used responsibly by many families.</p>
<p>The issue I have is this: There are not a whole lot of schools that can easily tell you how much you will get other than federal aid … and even then, there are so many variables with things like work study & SEOG. For example, I worked at a large public university. We did not get our budget for 2011 until April of 2011 … and then we ran out of work study & SEOG really, really early. We don’t have automatic scholarships. So how are we to tell anyone what they’ll receive? The way the calculators work, the school uses the average amount received by students within the last few years … and that can vary. </p>
<p>Students and parents need to do research. Schools need to bring in financial aid professionals to talk to students in the early high school years … and they need to insist that the talk be about financial reality, rather than a recruiting talk.</p>
<p>I spoke to a group of young parents in my church. I asked them if they could afford the typical college tuition today. When they said no, I told them that the reality is most people are no more prepared when their kids are ready to go off to school. I encouraged them to start NOW to prepare. They insisted that their kids will do all the right things & get scholarships. Guess that’s how it works (not).</p>
<p>As for the work study question, I think private colleges probably have a better handle on their work study funding — public colleges have a tougher time planning for work study & it runs out fast. It’s just the nature of the beast. But there are exceptions to this, of course. I seem to hear more complaints about not getting work study (or not being able to get a work study job) at publics than privates. YMMV.</p>
<p>This is from my son’s school’s Net Price Calculator:</p>
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<p>Although I like the numbers, somehow I don’t think it’s quite accurate…</p>
<p>stevensmama…</p>
<p>I practiced on some NPCs and a couple had that same wrong school year. weird!! I wonder if they hired the same company to make their NPC.</p>
<p>As for the rest of the odd numbers on your calculations, that is really weird!!! Did the NPC just get put up? </p>
<p>Edited to add…I tried that NPC calculator and put in family of 3 with an income of $30k - 39k (they give a range) and got this…</p>
<p>Academic Year: 2009-10</p>
<p>Estimated total price of attendance: $18,500
a. Estimated tuition and fees $7,112
b. Estimated room and board $7,462
c. Estimated books and supplies $1,000
d. Estimated other expenses
(Personal expenses, transportation, etc.) $2,926
Estimated total grant aid:
(Includes both merit and need based aid) $10,377
Estimated net price:
(Price of attendance minus grant aid) $8,123</p>
<p>*and even then, there are so many variables with things like work study & SEOG. For example, I worked at a large public university. We did not get our budget for 2011 until April of 2011 … and then we ran out of work study & SEOG really, really early. *</p>
<p>The SEOG and work-study are going to be a problem. I tried some NPCs with a fake low EFC and they gave WS awards when who knows if they’ll really have them to give. One just said “school job” which sounded vaguely safe as maybe not actual W-S.</p>
<p>I did notice that few OOS publics gave WS to OOS students or students who have need, but they have moderate EFCs (like over $8k) </p>
<p>Some NPCs are asking if you already know your EFC (I guess they mean from EFC calculators), which I think probably helps getting a more accurate estimate.</p>
<p>I’ve only found one non-UVA/UNC oos public to give non-fed need-based grants so far to OOS students…and it wasn’t much.</p>
<p>UMW recently redesigned their website using WordPress and it isn’t quite ready for prime time. A lot of the links don’t work. The NPC is messed up for the $40k - $49k bracket, family of 2 or 3. The other random combinations I tried are more realistic. Making a $59,200 profit sure would have been nice!</p>
<p>Either your kid got tons of merit or they thought you were incredibly needy! ;)</p>
<p>We’re finding greater than expected variation in the NPC formats. Some schools keep to the Federal EFC format while others have simplified. NYU, for example, just asks for range of income, with the highest at “more than $99,000”. Once you pass that mark you are on the hook for full price. </p>
<p>Also it appears we are penalized for saving money for our retirement that is not in an IRA or other “official” retirement plan. If we had plowed everything into a dream home at the beach we would be eligible for aid. I think they should focus on income to determine aid, and not penalize people for a lifetime of scrimping and saving.</p>
<p>*or athletes on scholarship.</p>
<p>====================
Nope, Division III. *</p>
<p>True…However, my point remains the same…that athletes are often accepted with lower than avg stats. My point really wasn’t about their funding. </p>
<p>That said… Don’t know if Div III schools (that don’t meet need) can play “fast and loose” with need-based aid and give more need-based aid to athletes than they would to another student with better stats.</p>
<p>*Also it appears we are penalized for saving money for our retirement that is not in an IRA or other “official” retirement plan. If we had plowed everything into a dream home at the beach we would be eligible for aid. *</p>
<p>If you had plowed your money into a second home on the beach, you would be penalized as well since that is an unprotected asset. And, many CSS schools consider equity in a primary home fair game as well.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we learned the hard way that the calculators (at least Northwestern University) are not very accurate. When I ran the numbers, the numbers showed only grant money - no loans. I assumed that was due to our low income and assets. When the package was sent from the school, it shows more than $6000 in loans for the freshman year, and our family’s expected contribution is higher than the calculator’s numbers. I have not found the office helpful - they say they meet 100% of need, but what they have given us makes it impossible for my daughter to attend. We could live with the loans, if the expected family contribution was lower. She was also offered work study, which is great. But when I asked the average number of hours Work Study students worked, the financial aid office said about 15 hours. This seems high for a freshman, especially if she wants to particpate in sports or other ECs. The Northwestern web site says 10 hours per week is standard for work study. I am not sure what to do. They do not seem to care if my daughter attends or not. We applied early decision, and they said we can withdraw if we cannot meet the financial requirement. They said I can only appeal if there have been unforseen circumstances since completing the CSS Profile. </p>
<p>Anyone else have this experience?</p>
<p>I have been on CC for many years 
& while we don’t have personal experience with Northwestern, it does seem that for many families they are less than generous with aid, & especially for subsequent years. So it may be a blessing to find that out now, rather than get really slammed jr year because the aid isn’t there.</p>
<p>When the package was sent from the school, it shows more than $6000 in loans for the freshman year, and our family’s expected contribution is higher than the calculator’s numbers. I have not found the office helpful - they say they meet 100% of need, but what they have given us makes it impossible for my daughter to attend. We could live with the loans, if the expected family contribution was lower. She was also offered work study, which is great. But when I asked the* average number of hours Work Study students worked, the financial aid office said about 15 hours. This seems high for a freshman, especially if she wants to particpate in sports or other ECs**.*</p>
<p>Sorry to hear that the FA pkg doesn’t reflect the NPC. It’s odd that the NPC didn’t include loans since NU does include loans in FA pkgs.</p>
<p>Are you including the “summer work” student contribution in the amount that your family is expected to contribute? If so, can your D earn that or more?</p>
<p>I know it’s harsh to hear, but participating in sports and ECs can be a luxury when it comes to college. Paying for college should come first. Many kids have to work more than that to pay for college. And, your D doesn’t HAVE to work 15 hours per week…she could work less and economize on her “day to day” expenses…which W-S generally pays for anyway.</p>
<p>How much was your D given in work-study? If she was given - say 2500 - that’s not 15 hours a week. That would be about 10 hours per week at $8.50 per hour for 30 school weeks.</p>
<p>Can you go over your FA paperwork to see if there was a mistake somewhere? Did you have any retirement contributions that weren’t “added back in”? </p>
<p>*The way the calculators work, the school uses the average amount received by students within the last few years … and that can vary.
*</p>
<p>Oh my…that may explain what NYU’s NPC is doing. NYU only gives merit to the top 5% and institutional grants to top students, so if their avg “free money” award (to those top students) is $20k, then it looks like they’re using that avg in many/most/all their NPC calculations…at least the couple of times I’ve tried it.</p>
<p>NPC does not use as in-depth an analysis as you get when you submit Profile. For that reason, the EFC definitely can vary … in addition, I am guessing you had to send tax returns, as well, and you may not have actually completed the NPC info correctly (not uncommon) … Northwestern would have corrected info when they looked at the returns. </p>
<p>Meeting need definitely varies. My D went to Vandy over Tufts because while both met need Vandy met need a WHOLE LOT better than Tufts. YMMV.</p>