<p>I have to admit many Chinese applicants changed their transcripts. However, I want to say we have no choice.
China has an completely different education system. For many Chinese students, SAT is so easy if it’s in Chinese launguage. I’m going to study in UW this fall. I found mathematic questions in GRE is also very toilless. </p>
<p>for me, From 13-18. on most days, I go to school at 7:20 am, and came back at 9:00 pm.
after finishing my homework. it’s may after 0:00am. so I sleep less than 7 hours a day. and I spent all the time on study school courses except dining, walking to school, etc, during the school day. </p>
<p>Comparing with SAT/ACT. Chinese high school tests are much tougher.<br>
we have hard tests, of coures, our scores are low is natural, but I’m sure we can master college fundamental knowledge except English.</p>
<p>a lot of america teachers curve the grade and give a lot of extra credit, what do these actions differ from changing the grade?
I do not totally appreciate this action, but for us, these actions are reasonable. Even though when we work hard at high school, we are rarely able to get all A’s, those who got all A’s are the smartest among the genius. In my HS grad class, there was only one student who got all A’s and her grade was 92%. That’s not because we are dumb, it’s just because chinese HS are intensify. But in U.S. HS, as you are working hard and not too dumb, you are usually able to get A’s, and the teachers curve and give extra all the time too.
Especially in science classes, students who have passed are completely qualify and is garanteed to do well in U.S. college. I was a C student in chinese HS, but right now in US college, I get all A’s except english. Not me, all of my friends are C’s in chinese HS, A in college. Do we just suddenly get smarter. No, but when we were in HS, we are just completely qualify as an A student according to US’s definition of A.</p>
<p>zapfino, that’s really true. Chinese university’s favorite research tool is copy and paste. That’s the major reason why I struggled and frustrated not to study here but in the US. But just last week, Boston University’s EC came to our school said if you can pass our test (according one of my friend it was stupidly easy) you can come to our school directly. See the official requirement in the Boston U’s admission page. All they want is just tuition? Not good students. This happens a lot in China. Many US universities are giving this guarantee offers. Anyway, blogspot was blocked in China. Chinese gov blocks everything…</p>
<p>I found this post in Chinese website. To translate it to English: </p>
<p>“By the way, to apply to U.S. colleges, you need to inflate your high school grades. Can your high school accomdate you and increase your grades? Because in general all Chinese students do it. Change all grades to above 90 points (GPA – the requirement for foreign colleges (are): above 3.5)”</p>
<p>I think the problem is those Chinese teachers give extremely difficult tests to trick students to have bad grades. It is common those high school kids get 80s or 70s. Very few (maybe 1 or 2) can get low 90s.</p>
<p>Is lying about their grades acceptable? No.</p>
<p>Is Chinese high school students learn better? They have solid foundation. They have good memory. However, their ability to do research and get project done is very poor. They lack creativity.</p>
<p>I am a rising junior at one of the very top high schools in China. </p>
<p>To my knowledge, there is plenty of grade inflation involved in high school transcripts, but at our school I really think that this is understandable, even reasonable. </p>
<p>At my school, we take one test every single day, every single week of the entire school year. One time we had seven major Chemistry tests within the span of three weeks. The results of all these tests? For all of the tests that were composed by my school, the majority of students received 70s, with a minority of 80s, and a generous distribution of <60s. For all of the tests made by our school district (which is the best school district in Beijing), the majority of students received above 90, with loads of 95+.</p>
<p>I mean to make two points through this example. One, without the “grade inflation”, you’d be completely screwed-over at a great high school, because most great high schools compose tests themselves. A decent student might have a 70s average at our school, but be able to receive a high 90s average at a less competitive school. On the other hand, you can cruise through a mediocre high school without once worrying about your grades. This contradiction is in no way going to help colleges pick out the best students. </p>
<p>Two, curves are non-existent. On tests where the majority of students get below 80 or even 70, there will still be someone to break the curve. Our school has at least one Olympiad gold medalist a year (usually in math)–those curves simply don’t happen. </p>
<p>So how do students cope with this reality? The ones who want to apply to foreign colleges usually meet at some point to discuss the scores/rankings. They all agree to bump up the scores by a certain amount. </p>
<p>Fair? No. Necessary? Quite so. </p>
<p>However, I do not see the need to bump up scores for students whose schools do not offer challenging tests. Then again, how do you classify the schools? By how much do you bump up your scores? There are plenty of grey areas in the Chinese education system, which gives plenty of people plenty of room to meddle in. I would say that in some cases, it’s the only thing you can do to make things more fair, but in other cases, it’s just selfish and dishonest.</p>
<hr>
<p>As for cheating in top universities in China… It’s pretty much openly known all across the nation already. Who cares?</p>
<p>If your statement appeared on the GRE as Argument it would be extremely easy to pick it apart. Apparently your great American high school taught you nothing about logic. Simple questions will show the numerous logical fallacies in your paragraph. Though I do not think you will agree, this analysis is not for you to agree with, but rather for the observers who think that Chinese students will take abuse silently. Also it helps me prepare for the GRE.</p>
<p>First, in your argument about humanities, what is the standard for a “broad” humanistic inquiry? The humanities are not like sciences, where there are standards and universal truths. Is there a specific, universal definition of broadness? And what of depth? You have not addressed that maybe American students do not read their books as intensively as Chinese students, so perhaps it is scholarly depth being sacrificed for “broadness.” And indeed, you may have confused “broad” with “good.” Who said that “broad” is “good”? Did you invent that definition? The dictionary never equates “broad” with “good.” And even if “broad” was “good”, do you regard simply having read “Catcher in the Rye” and “Beowulf” as broad? Who set the definition that reading those 2 specific novels gives someone a broad humanistic inquiry?</p>
<p>Second, in your argument that the education is political, you confuse math and politics. First, you don’t seem to know that in China, high school is separated into “pre-science/engineering” and “pre-humanities”. Pre-science/engineering students do not get tested on politics, so your argument is weak because it does not apply to half of all high school students. Secondly, you assume that math and politics are interelated, in that repeatedly doing math makes someone easier to politically indoctrinate. This is an unsustained argument because there is no evidence that equates hours of math done and ease of political indoctrination. And even if there was a connection, the end result is that the students know the math and can solve math problems at a far higher level than most US students of equal age; in this case it does not matter that politics is involved, the goal of a math class is to make students proficient at math regardless of anything else. Third, you imply that political indoctrination is not part of math class in US schools, however I’ve seen many applications in math textbooks about calculations involving US weapon systems. These applications are not present in Chinese math textbooks. One may ask, in fact, which country’s math class has more political indoctrination.</p>
<p>Third, your entire argument has been filled with subjective words such as inhuman, brainwashing, etc which do not make for convincing scientific analysis. You’ve also said almost all of China’s talented students are concentrated in tier 1 cities. Is it possible to prove these statements? No. First of all, talent is a subjective term. A more objective term would be grade, but even those are not adequate as every school has different standards except for Gaokao test but even those are not uniform across the nation. There are different forms of the Gaokao in every province, and the minimum score for admission to any given university is different by province. Beijing, Shanghai and Guangdong have the lowest minimum scores. Thus, they appear to be more “talented” but in reality their cutoff scores are lower. However, even if this was not true, you still cannot prove that the majority of talented students are from rich provinces because you did not check the statistics for a neutral indicator. In your rant about brainwashing, you also did not set a definition for brainwashing, nor check to see if US schools have the same problem. Furthermore, you mention Ah-Q, but use it in the improper context. Is this the result of your “superior” US high school training? Perhaps.</p>
<p>Noting the above, we can see that your argument is fundamentally flawed in several aspects and it cannot be regarded as anything more than the rambling of an uneducated person. This sort of rambling has no value in neither social or academic settings. Could it be that this incoherent logic is the result of your failure to obtain quality training in high school? Perhaps. This would be the best assumption. The worst would be that you have other motives for criticizing our school system, which seem quite clear. Note that I did not defend my school system as it has many obvious flaws, I’m simply picking apart your biased argument.</p>
<ul>
<li>Chinese student preparing for the GRE. From a 3rd rate city, in a low income province, now with a 3.4 GPA in a hard science major at a top 50 US university.</li>
</ul>
<p>actually, I am very regret coming and studying in the U.S. right now, I miss those days in high school when I was striking for a good grade in a competitive community. My “A” classmates were really really genuis. </p>
<p>if chinese “students are being forced to perform the mechanic repetitions best described as a mental work camp,” how about American student?
In U.S., the homework assignment in math classes are invariable, instructors force you to do the same types of problems again and again and again to numbness…
nonetheless, in my chinese math class, every problem is suprising and unpredictable. There is no pre-test and the question in the tests and exams are rarely based on the homework but the concept you have learned. i.e. students’ abilities to solve problem quickly is emphasized. Students need to brainstorm to solve the problem instead of just duplicating the method form the previous problems. Which one do you think as brainwashing then? yes, chinese students might do math 10 hrs every day, but we solve variety of problem. I’d prefer that rather than solving same type of problem for two hours. </p>
<p>So far, except the improvement in English, I feel I have learned very little here.</p>
<p>What I find most hilarious about all this is that China dominates the science olympiads (heck, even the US team generally has a number of asian-americans), which are generally touted to be the antithesis of rote memory work. </p>
<p>It’s fine to argue from general theories but given that our reviews of educational systems draw so heavily form inductive reasoning with so many analogies presented as evidence, it may be best to simply leave this issue to a simple matter of results. Also consider that each state has different circumstances which it must attend to and shapes policy accordingly. Furthermore, cultural views on education differ significantly. One cannot say that what is accepted by one culture should be universally recognized. China has a tradition of accepting the wisdom of and learning from elders. America gets a thrill out of innovation. Can you see why the handling of intellectual property rights differs? One can argue that such protections encourage individuals to pursue such interests or that it prevents knowledge from being shared. It’s a matter of perspective.</p>
<p>As for my own views, as an institution, the system of schooling in china is far more efficient in offering guidance. America takes a different approach in relying on individual incentives and laying out resources for students to use (the money kinda helps here). Best of both worlds would be nice. Start in china, then move to the US for the resources then off to wherever to do what you need to. China doesn’t have the resources to support the growth of young intellectuals but America doesn’t have the discipline to guide them.</p>
<p>I am not a student from China. In 1980 Umass find out some students from China have problems in academic. They soon think the transcript that the students shown may not be that accurate. Also UMass is surprised when the students bring their dictionary to take the comprehensive and qualify exam for their major subject. As a result, some female student change their majors in order to stay in US. Some just quit scholl and go to work illegally.</p>
<p>I heard that one could have the best transcript by paying under the table. Back to my time, there are many students from China get into good colleges like Princeton. Today many of them are department heads.</p>
<p>That is not because of the guidance. If just means the student are more obedience. They will be lack of creative. That is why China could only copy other people’s idea, without their original creation in general. Fake DVD, fake Gucci,… and fake eggs…The skills are good, but have something original, creative!!</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say the grades are “changed”. Chinese students, very literally, score very low in American standards. Heck, in my school (I go to a traditional Chinese high school), over half of my classmates would have below a 2.0 GPA, about 20% would have below a 1.0 GPA, and there would even be a substantial percentage of students with a 0.0 if we used American GPA standards. Thus, most high schools use rankings for GPA. IE: top 10% would be 3.85, top 20% would be 3.75, etc… Our grades are based entirely on midterm and finals grades. Often times teachers or the district would make the midterms insanely hard, dropping average scores to below 70 or even below 60. It’s perfectly reasonable for Chinese students to use a different scale to calculate GPA.</p>
<p>I think that the posters above have two very different understandings of modifying transcripts. </p>
<p>One is curving the grades of the entire class by a certain amount. As many people have mentioned, Chinese students (especially those from the best schools) have a tremendous disadvantage with their raw scores. US students might be getting 90s regularly on tests, whereas making it into the 80s is extremely difficult for students of some Chinese schools. An official curve given by the school, in this case, does not give unfair advantage; rather, it overcomes unfair disadvantage. Personally, I believe that as long as the curve is reasonable, this way of “modifying transcripts” is a good thing.</p>
<p>The second is inflating your own scores through unsavory means such as completely faking your transcript with the assistance of agencies or bribing your teachers. I don’t think I really need to list the various evils of this unfair method.</p>
<p>Points:
A) Please clarify which form of modifying transcripts you mean.
B) Personally, I think the 1st is fair and good, while the 2nd is evil and manipulative. </p>
<p>On a darker note, I must say that extracurriculars (anything from volunteering hours to internships to awards) are faked a lot more often than transcripts. Ah, those humongous cash cows called agencies! (Ooh, alliteration.)</p>
<p>Well, that is not quite true. Some elite high schools in China are coming to realize that integrity in academic record is of great importance. So, the circumstance is : if a school has a lot of stuents applying for U.S top universities, say, 50 out of 200, the school may not improve the students score since it will take great risks to do so. But as to those schools which only send one or two students to U.S, they are more likely to improve the score since it may not means to much. Students in China do not value their transcript too much because what determines their fate is the GaoKao.</p>
<p>In my school tests are so hard that the highest scores in subjects like math or physics are in the 70s (P.S. in my school there are about 60 students going to THU/PKU each year)</p>
<p>Maybe you can change scores, but you can’t change rank. Even if all students applying US colleges changed their scores, they would still be ranked. I think AOs should pay more attention to ranking.</p>
<p>Definitely. Also, it’s totally unfair that I was top 0.1% in Gaokao but bottom 10% in high school with lower than 65% average score. The principal of my high school requires the transcripts be produced in a completely different way to fit the students’ real standard if they want to study aboard.</p>