How Adcoms view failure

Applying to College
1

<p>I'm seriously afraid I won't get into a University, or any state college for that matter. As of now, the most debilitating aspect of my college apps are my grades. Theyre bad, really really bad. I did fairly well my freshman and sohopmore years, receiving mostly As, a couple of Bs, and one or two Cs, but something came over me towards the end of Sophomore year. It's weird, I developed this God complex about myself. Long story short, I signed up for five APs (Eng. lang, American Hist., Calculus, Physics, Art History, 2D studio art), and ended up failing about 4 of my classes the first Semester of Junior year, and just barely passing with Ds and two Bs the next Semester. The grades partially due to a job I was forced to get since my parents decided they would no longer support me financially. However, I did managed to salvage a 3 on my English lit, a 3 on Art history, and a 4 for my 2d portfolio (yes I know theyre mediocre).</p>

<p>After realizing that this incident could ultimately keep me out of college, Im currently retaking the all the classes over online through grade forgiveness (Florida policy that allows you to replace a D or failing grade if you retake the class). I've already vowed to myself that I wouldn't screw up senior year here is my schedule:</p>

<p>Ap American gov/ Economics
Ballet 3
Ap English Lit.
Sculpture lll honors
Adv computer graphics
Ap 3D Studio Art</p>

<p>Currently I rank in the top 40% of 423
and my GPA is 2.54 unweighted, 3.1 weighted
Projected Senior GPA:3.43 unweighted, 4.1 weighted</p>

<p>Other than that my stats are pretty concrete:</p>

<p>Male
Afro-Caribbean (born in Haiti, immigrated to U.S at age of 6)
First generation college attendee</p>

<p>SAT Scores:
670 M
780 V
800 w</p>

<p>SAT ll:
French 800
English 790
Math 1 650</p>

<p>ECs:
Pres. of National Arts Honors Society (11, 12)
Student Government association (12)
Track (11,12)
Volunteer teacher at Fort. Lauderdale museum of art (12)
Graphic Designer for Chromatek Imaging (Globally recognized advertisement/ printing company based in fort. lauderdale) (11,12)
Internship at fairly prestigious architecture firm (sophomore summer)</p>

<p>Awards/ Scholarships:
2 Scholastic Art and writing Awards (one at State level and the other at National)
Scholarship to attend Museum of Art summer preparatory
......there should me more</p>

<p>Special Talents:
Fluent in French and creole
Trained in ballet for 6 years</p>

<p>Other Stuff:
Designed ceramic bowls for the victims of hurricane Katrina
Raised 3,000 dollars for the Red Cross to aid victims of hurricane Katrina</p>

<p>Im really passionate about architecture, and plan on majoring in it during college. So what do you think? Will college Adcoms look beyond the bad grades from junior year or should I just give up and settle for community college?</p>

<p>University of Florida
Cornell University
University of Central Florida
University of Miami
New York University
Columbia University
UPenn</p>

2

<p>UF- match
UCF- match</p>

<p>the others are likely out of reach (especially the ivys) unless your grade forgiveness program completely wipes the old grade out. good luck</p>

3

<p>WHAT!!!!! that grade forgiveness is so unfair. so if you were to get an A in a class you got a D in the collrges would only see the A? Same thing for GPA?</p>

4

<p>The grade forgiveness is a great idea. I'd doing the same with two of my classes in college.</p>

5

<p>UF and UM are both matches for you, cept you probably won't get scholarship to pay for UM unless you get the 1500 SAT. UCF is relatively easy, NYU might be a pain though.</p>

<p>I've never had grade forgiveness though, good luck with it.</p>

<p>I wonder if I can grade forgive my B in Calc II haha.</p>

6

<p>Question- if you only get one F, but the rest As and Bs, do colleges only see the yearlong average?</p>

<p>just curious- if so that may help you.</p>

7

<p>Yes. Ex, I calculate my grades every year, getting 2 As on a 9 weeks and an A on the final or midterm. The rest I get Bs and I end up with an A in the class, which is all they see. :D</p>

8

<p>I think it depends on how your county does transcripts. Ours only have the final average, but some might have semester/midterm grades too.</p>

9

<p>You may want to consider some small, private schools that will take time in evaluating the applicant. I am assuming you will need aid--pick a school with good aid packages, covering most if not all of need. The larger schools are more formula driven, as Princedog says, alot will be determined on how your transcript is presented. You may want to ask your GC for an unofficial copy of your transcript that is edited in college mode so you can see what the colleges will be seeing. Your GC will also be knowlegeable about how you will fare in your state school admissions.</p>

10

<p>"The grades partially due to a job I was forced to get since my parents decided they would no longer support me financially. "</p>

<p>Get your GC to write about this in their recc as the colleges will take your unusual situation into account.</p>

<p>You have nothing to lose by applying to Ivies, though they are a reach. You still have a chance due to your unusual circumstances. Your scores are good, your ECs are good considering that you've also been working.</p>

<p>You also may wish to enclose an extra recommendation from your work supervisor.</p>

<p>If you want to go to a higher ranked school than UF, then also apply to some easier reach schools than Ivies -- Emory, Wake Forest, Brandeis, Boston College, Vanderbilt come to my mind as possibilities for you.</p>

<p>Will your parents help with college? If not, you may need to stay in state because if your parents can afford to give you help, but won't, colleges probably won't give you extra aid to make up for your parents' not paying their fair share. Even though you may be living independently, colleges don't consider you as independent unless you are married, in the military or at least age 24.</p>

<p>If you aren't a US citizen, make sure that any colleges that you apply to meet the financial need of international students. </p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

11

<p>Grade forgiveness only replaces the D or failing grade averaged in your GPA with a new one. From what my counselor says, colleges still see the original grades. The classes that are retaken get flagged with a special symbol on the transcript to indictate that the student retook it. The major drawback of this is no matter how hard I work to replace the grades, they stay recorded.</p>

<p>I hate the fact that so much emphasis is placed on grades. The Ivys, and other top 25% schools more than not will dismiss someone's app based on grades alone without taking into consideration that student's other strengths and positive attributes. I 'd much rather have a kid with a 2.99 average , who founded a non-pofit organization to house the homeless, and was more than adequately involved in their school attend my university, than some over-achiever 4.0 kid, who spends his spare time debating einstein's theory of relativity, and competes nationally in chess competitions. Where's the community involvement, the leadership, and the most importantly the passison? By no means am I saying that people who failed all four years through high school should get a golden ticket to harvard, but alternatevly those who aren't superior academically should atleast receive the chance to "argue their case".</p>

<p>And another thing, why do we give so much preeminence to top 10%
universities (i.e hyps)? Yes, these school do foster superior atmospheres of intellectual research and study, but I know for a fact that many intellectuals would be bored out of their minds if they attended these universities. College is an important journey that will ultimately help shape who you are as a person, its a time when one discovers their passions, their ambitions, their motivation in life. I say forget prestige, look past the ivy laidened walls, and focus on which college environment you think will challenge you intellectually, but also stimulate your creativity, and inspire you and your outlook on life. College is about discovery, besides you have plenty of opportunities to be challenged intellectually in Grad school. There, I think Im done.</p>

<p>This is more than I oringinally planned to say, but it needed to be said.</p>

<p>(sorry for all the grammatical errors, Im to tired to revise)</p>

12

<p>Grade forgiveness is a great idea. Your test scores are also great. But I think there was an extremely important factor in your low GPA that shouldn't be overlooked:
"The grades partially due to a job I was forced to get since my parents decided they would no longer support me financially."</p>

<p>Colleges would definitely view this kind of situation in an entirely different light. You NEED to indicate this on your application. If what you're saying is true, you DEFINITELY had a reason to experience a tank in grades. Shape up senior year but don't worry TOO much because when your parents decide not to support you anymore when you're in 11th grade, that's a pretty big deal and colleges are NOT going to gloss over that.
I think you are a very strong and unique candidate--minority, male ballet dancer, high test scores, motivation, etc. If you can prove that you are capable of getting good grades in senior year, you should get into some great schools. I'm not going to go so far as to say you're in at Penn or Cornell, but you definitely shouldn't settle for something below your abilities, either. The key thing is to prove to colleges that you can use your abilities to get better grades. Raise that GPA! And don't forget to indicate your financial struggles on your app.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
I 'd much rather have a kid with a 2.99 average , who founded a non-pofit organization to house the homeless, and was more than adequately involved in their school attend my university, than some over-achiever 4.0 kid, who spends his spare time debating einstein's theory of relativity, and competes nationally in chess competitions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, unfortunately there are people who have done those things and more plus have a 4.0 GPA. When you're only taking 9% of your applicants, they are likely to not only have stellar grades but also a stellar background. </p>

<p>There's no need to dwell on that though, you will be able to get into a college I'm sure. And even people who may not have done their best in high school can go to community college, start over, and earn high grades to transfer into a university. Even if the college you get into may not be your first choice, you may be able to distinguish yourself there and possibly transfer if you aren't happy. Work hard your senior year to keep your grades up and that will hopefully bring up the final GPA colleges see.</p>

14

<p>"The Ivys, and other top 25% schools more than not will dismiss someone's app based on grades alone without taking into consideration that student's other strengths and positive attributes. I 'd much rather have a kid with a 2.99 average , who founded a non-pofit organization to house the homeless, and was more than adequately involved in their school attend my university, than some over-achiever 4.0 kid, who spends his spare time debating einstein's theory of relativity, and competes nationally in chess competitions. Where's the community involvement, the leadership, and the most importantly the passison?"</p>

<p>Ivies are able to get students who have everything: grades, scores, class rank, talent, passion, leadership, etc.</p>

<p>As a result, if you take a look at Ivies' web sites, you'll see that they have hundreds of student-run ECs. </p>

<p>The kid with the 2.99 average who did wonderful ECs is not the type of person that Ivies want because students who do ECs at the expense of their grades aren't as good performers in college as are students who did wonderful ECs AND kept high grades. Trust me. I know. I have 2 sons who had great ECs in h.s., but mediocre grades, and I certainly know why Ivies wouldn't want students like that. Think about it: Such students are getting mediocre grades while living at home and under the wings of parents who presumably are encouraging them to get higher grades, and to also make it to class. When such students are in college, no one will be there to do that, and such students may decide to do their college ECs at the expense of bothering to go to class (which is what my older S did, and is why he flunked out of college, but had a spectacular college EC that won a regional award).</p>

15

<p>gpa > sat >>>> personal ec > clubs
of course leadership in a huge club will make clubs more important, and if yor personal ec is winning the intel science fair, then that will matter too. hopefully, your ec's are what you love. however there is a problem with doing what you love too much....</p>

16

<p>*"I hate the fact that so much emphasis is placed on grades. The Ivys, and other top 25% schools more than not will dismiss someone's app based on grades alone without taking into consideration that student's other strengths and positive attributes. I 'd much rather have a kid with a 2.99 average , who founded a non-pofit organization to house the homeless... <yadda yadda=""></yadda></p>

<p>And another thing, why do we give so much preeminence to top 10%
universities (i.e hyps)?"*</p>

<p>honestly? a degree from a top-tier university is a credential in ways in which degrees from other places simply aren't. My dad, for example, has had instant credibility in a wide range of business situations once they see his brass rat (MIT class ring), and doors open for him that would otherwise be closed. Top employers recruit only at top schools (because they can), and top grad schools look much more favorably upon top undergrad programs. That's just the nature of things, and most people who tell you otherwise are jealous or deluded. Certainly it is possible to "succeed" without a top degree, but the HYPS credential makes it a lot easier.</p>

<p>"but I know for a fact that many intellectuals would be bored out of their minds if they attended these universities."</p>

<p>Is that so... you know for a fact, huh. Quite frankly, I think the intensity of the intellectual atmosphere and the sheer academic curiosity that most students at these schools carry around with them is one of the best parts about attending, you're forced to raise your game, and you get excited by everyone else being excited.</p>

<p>Again, the benefits of having such an environment can be found in other places, but it sure helps to be surrounded by it.</p>

<p>If you're the kind of student who deserves to go to a place like Columbia or Penn (or more properly, deserves to beat out the next 9 students who apply), you'll show the kind of intellectual curiosity they're looking for by virtue of chasing interesting intellectual subjects when you find them, and showing genuine passion. Retaking classes may help in that, they may not, but i'd keep that end in mind if that's where you want to go.</p>

17

<p>Wow, denzana, the snootiness just oozzeeessss from your post</p>

<p>With so many great studiness who are "Ivy" material not getting accepted because of sheer volume of applicants, where you think those kdis are going, gosh, to other schools, with each other</p>

<p>and top recruiters for employment don't just recruit at the Ivies, as for undergrad, um, gee, those orgrams also go byond their own doors, otherwise it would be mighty boring</p>

<p>what an arrogant post, btw</p>

<p>tell people at Berkeley, UCLA, Notre Dame, NYU Sarah Lawrence, etc they won't get recruited by the "best"</p>

<p>egad, snootiness is alive and well on CC</p>

<p>yeah, like no medicre people graduate from the Ivies...please, dont get me started</p>

<p>it is the snootiness in the above post that people find irritating</p>

<p>tops employers dont jsut recruit at the "top schools"</p>

<p>that statement is pretty arrogant, considering that so many top students are not accepted by the "top schools" becuase of shear volume of applicants</p>

<p>those kids are going somewhere and are there together</p>

<p>gee, tell the succssful people from UCLA, Berekly, Sarah Lawrence, Hastings, that the recruters don't go there...</p>

<p>what an arrogant post, denzana</p>

18

<p>to the OP- you will get into college, and it will be a good one...just keep workng hard and prove people like Denzane or whatver wrong</p>

<p>you can succeed in life if you want to, no matter what college </p>

<p>think of it this way, some people use the College name to open doors, others count on themselves, and that is something to be proud of</p>

19

<p>Like captofthehouse said, you'd have a good shot at smaller schools that take time to analyze each application. Also a decent shot at big schools that rely heavily on test scores. Also a good shot at small elite colleges in New England that have a tough time attracting African American students (Middlebury accepts something like 70% of black applicants).</p>

<p>Also keep in mind that as a URM, you already have test scores that make you competitive ANYWHERE. But schools will be wary of the grades. All of that concern over your grades would disappear if you went to even a mediocre school and got excellent grades in the first term of your freshman year and then transferred. To sum up, you could probably get into some very good schools right out of high school (though you should apply to a lot of schools because you can't expect even half of them to see past your grades). But if you want to go after the big fish, it might be best to go somewhere where you can rack up a high GPA in the first term and then transfer--but even that path is rough because the transfer rate at the really elite colleges is very low.</p>

<p>Maybe some other people would know: don't some students with high SATs and low grades go to a 13th year at prep schools so they can pad their high school GPA and still apply to colleges' freshmen classes (i.e., not as college transfers)?</p>

20

<p>In some professions, the top top recruiters (like really high powered law firms) will sometimes only hire out of the top grad schools, although it's hardly like people with law degrees from other schools can't get great jobs or end up extremely successful too. It's not like there's 5 jobs and they're only open to people who graduated from Harvard law. There are unsuccessful Ivy graduates, successful non Ivy graduates, and everything in between.</p>

<p>There are certain benefits of the top tier schools but they aren't the be all and end all. In other words, it's nice to go there, and I don't think anyone is saying there's no point at all, but there are many paths to success. At the same time it's not really realistic to say "Harvard sucks and there's no oppurtunity you'll get from there that isn't open to everyone." There is some specific networking potential, but I think that as more and more people go to college and get white collar jobs, etc, the "old order" is phased out and I think this could likley become less and less true as this generation ages. Also, although you may miss a specific oppurtunity, that doesn't mean there aren't others too. It also doesn't mean if you go there you'll automatically get all these oppurtunities, you'll be competing with everyone else there for them. </p>

<p>Not everyone is headed down the same path. Applying to very selective schools isn't for everyone. Your experiences, culture, skills, background, might enrich another school that is a much better fit for you. If you really feel the way you've described about these selective schools, they probably aren't the best fit for you anyway. I hope you can find a good fit. Good luck.</p>