<p>^ I don’t think I should have to put on a pair of reading glasses to answer the math questions-- I’ll stick with the ACT. :)</p>
<p>I also feel that the SAT Writing section mutiple choice does the same little trick on the underlined words part. You pretty much have to notice small details to get the problem right, like idiomatic errors, pronouns etc. It makes a bit of sense as it is an english test, but on the math–not really.</p>
<p>If you went through a test and counted the number of questions that asked you to solve for 2x instead of x or the diameter rather than the radius, I don’t think there would be too many. I can understand why someone would take issue with such questions, but I really don’t think there are enough to big a difference in one’s score, especially with a little practice.</p>
<p>^It did for me. 5 problems wrong and I knew how to do all of them. Sure, you can call me a liar and say i’m just not good at math, but I know the truth. And I bet there’s others like me that get easy questions wrong for no good reason. Little details.</p>
<p>This question definitely wins #1 spot:</p>
<p>If 3(2x+5) = 6(x+2t) , what is 12t?</p>
<p>^ I got that wrong… Stupid idiots at the SAT wrote so many stupid numbers that when I took it that morning I some how got the answer of 5.</p>
<p>And another:
x^2 = 81, y^2 = 16, x-y = (x-y)k, what is a possible value of k if its positive? </p>
<p>Better not to even ask how I got this one wrong… (I got 19.4 ? lolwut, I don’t even know how, but if there weren’t so many equations I would have gotten it right).</p>
<p>Another one showed a graph and asked about the mean and median and stuff, I got it wrong too because I failed to count correctly on the graph.</p>
<p>It just throws to much crap at you that you have to look very closely at every little number.</p>
<p>Note, both of these questions are labeled as very easy… I got all the hard ones right. Its the little details that frustrate me. I don’t consider myself bad at math because I mistook a number to another one on a saturday morning because the font size is so small. Or I can’t correctly count squares on a graph.</p>
<p>You can possibly debate that though. I’m sure, people like those who made the SAT, find that testing who can see the smallest irrelevant things is important.</p>
<p>Cjgone, I think you have done little to prove that the ACT is better than the SAT. If anything, you have just shown how foolish your argument is. </p>
<p>Your examples show that you aren’t very skilled at math.
“I got 19.4 ? lolwut, I don’t even know how, but if there weren’t so many equations I would have gotten it right”</p>
<p>This is exactly how the SAT is more challenging than the ACT. You wish there weren’t so many equations? In other words, you wish the SAT was as easy as the ACT. </p>
<p>The “irrelevant things” are actually important, and as a reasoning test, the SAT takes that into account. Math is not just about plugging in formulas, it’s about attention to detail and accuracy. Reading the question and using all the information is essential. In college and the workforce, stupid errors are not acceptable, and as a college admissions exam, the SAT tests students for silly mistakes. </p>
<p>Remember, this is a national test given to millions of kids. It is meant to differentiate students, so not everyone can get an 800 on math. </p>
<p>People like cjgone just demonstrate the kinds of kids who do well on the ACT but not the SAT. This is exactly why the SAT has more weight in elite college admissions. There are many students who can do the mindless plug-and-chug, but lack the reasoning skills needed for the SAT.</p>
<p>Gbesq, you’ve just shown that you have no idea how to analyze statistics without bias. Also remember, I am talking about ELITE schools, not Kansas State University. </p>
<p>To all the CCers who are aiming for top colleges, I recommend the SAT. As I’ve said numerous times, colleges are not stupid. They know that the ACT is easier, and countless kids like cjgone just reinforce that fact. Therefore, they value the SAT more. All the misguided or bitter ACT-defenders should put aside their biases and try to help CCers without becoming negative and unhelpful.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Lolworthy. There’s no reasoning involved. I read the numbers wrong and incorrectly mutiplied. I didn’t wear glasses on the test, i’m sorry. That makes me bad at math, l0l.</p>
<p>And I just spent 15 minutes trying to solve one of the ACT problems I got wrong. I’ve never seen a problem on the SAT math require more then 5 minutes and 3 of those minutes are reading the problem three more times.</p>
<p>I don’t see your argument, other then your ignorant. Math isn’t based on tripping people because they mess up one number and then get the wrong answer. If someone accidentally found a square root incorrectly (actually I do it all the time), that doesn’t mean they lack the mathmatical knowledge. It means they’re to qualified for the work. Simplistic subjects are the grounds for making simple mistakes get over it.</p>
<p>Not everyone is perfecttt.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There’s almost no difference between someone with an 800 and someone with a 700. I know a person who scored 2nd place in a math competition in my whole state and didn’t get an 800 (800 on subj2 tho).</p>
<p>It’s so stupid. They could have multiplied wrong because they took in 2 numbers and a small detail made them get a wrong answer.</p>
<p>
Your understanding of what’s important to test is foolish. Get over yourself. Not everyone is a cold-hearted robot like you. People do make mistakes from misunderstandings on poorly written questions.</p>
<p>There is no reason to argue the matter, it will not change anything. If the act is so easy it wouldn’t be used towards admissions. If you get a 34+ it wont hold you back at any college at all.</p>
<p>cooljazz,</p>
<p>As usual, thank you for one of your typical posts that expresses your opinion and little else of any substance. And yes, I did make an error in reviewing the ACT and SAT national score reports, and when it was called to my attention, I acknowleged it. You, on the other hand, continue to post gems like this one: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Several posters, including me, challenged you on this diatribe of innuendo, and you have yet to back up a single statement that you’ve made with evidence. And you’ve got the chutzpah to criticize others on this thread? So you still maintain that the ACT isn’t taken seriously by “elite” institutions, I suppose. May I ask exactly which elite institution you attend? I’m a Duke grad, and having read your posts, I think that I can safely say that I wouldn’t expect you to be admitted to my alma mater. As for your little jab at Kansas State University, I’ve got a daughter there who was admitted early to the doctoral program in veterinary medicine, and that’s a tougher admit than medical school. So I’ll thank you to give a little more thought to your comments before you make them. Finally, assuming that you’ve reviewed the 2008 national reports for the ACT and the SAT (which I’m sure you haven’t), and given your assertion that the ACT is an easier test than the SAT, perhaps you’ll enlighten us all as to why the percentage of students who score in the 1500-1600 range on the SAT CR+ M and the 34-36 range on the ACT composite is approximately equal (the ACT 34-36 composite actually being a little more difficult to hit).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Cooljazz, just because somebody agrees with adcoms everywhere that the SAT and ACT ARE equal in admissions makes them negative and unhelpful?</p>
<p>How about you admit that you might be wrong? Or is that not a critical thinking question?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You think it’s unfair for the SAT to as you to handle equations with four terms? To handle systems of three equations? What do you want them to do, tell you 2x=4 and ask you to solve for x?</p>
<p>I understand your frustration with the questions that trip you up by asking you to solve for something unexpected, but the questions you posted are perfectly normal algebra problems.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I see how it is – your inabilities to deal with the SAT questions prove that you’re “too qualified” for the work, because it shows that you’ve moved past the basics! That’s right, you’re just too smart for your own good.</p>
<p>You seem to think your abilities to succeed with trig and calc excuse you from understanding the fundamentals. On the contrary, the more advanced one becomes in math, the more a solid understanding of the fundamentals is necessary.</p>
<p>I quite frankly don’t know which test is more difficult or more accurate, but the criticisms you’re making of the SAT just don’t make any sense. Font size? Handling three equations? I just don’t get it.</p>
<p>It’s testing worthless abilities by trying to make a person who doesn’t think linearly mess up when solving a question by tossing a lot of numbers at them. This is also true for graphs-- being forced to count a hand full of squares is not a valid way of analyzing mathmatical knowledge.</p>
<p>The “worthlessness” is also reinforced by the use of small details that force someone qualified at mathmatics to have to read a problem several times, wasting time and showing absolutely nothing. A test taker who falls to test taking pressure will probably not notice these small details and get the problems wrong and suffer then 1\4th point penalty. Ironically, people who have no idea how to solve the problems don’t get a penalty at all, so people who don’t follow word for word of the test will get lower scores then people who have no idea what they’re doing (this issue is a problem on the whole test too).</p>
<p>When these details are not as obscure, the SAT then likes to test your ability to use trial and error, which does not test any mathmatical abilities either.</p>
<p>None of these skills that the SAT is attempting to test are useful at all. Luckily, the CollegeBoard realized that when making both Math subject tests. Their fruitful attempts at tricking people on the SAT1 are discarded for a more concept based format on the SAT2.</p>
<p>And the ACT doesn’t have any notable issues. Someone who understands and can logically solve word problems will succeed on the ACT. Which is the whole point…</p>
<p>I know there’s a difference between the 2 because I miss a gazzilion easy questions on the SAT and easily solve the hard ones and still recevive a low score, while I don’t make any of these mistakes on the ACT (except for getting wrong the questions I legitamitely couldn’t solve) and do well.</p>
<p>Gbesq,</p>
<p>I can show you where I got my facts, but most can be found on the ACT website. Ex.
4. There is NO guessing penalty. Umm, sorry for not backing that one up with concrete sources! You really caught me.</p>
<p>Also, I keep noticing that you leave out the Writing portion of the SAT in all your statistics. I don’t understand why exactly, seeing as it counts as part of the composite SAT score, differently from the ACT system. </p>
<p>If you really want me to look up each of the points, perhaps I will in the future when I have more time. I will not, however, reveal the admissions officer. He told me all this in a private setting expecting full confidentiality. He, like other admissions officers, says that the ACT and SAT are equal during college fairs in order to remain PC and accepting to applicants. Privately, he told me what he really believes in. Sorry again if this is hard to accept. </p>
<p>You can taunt me all you want, but the fact is you have not showing any respect to me even though I have remained more polite. According to you ACT-defenders, I am a “stupid cold-hearted robot who needs to get over myself and will never get into an elite school.” I just don’t think that is the right way to help CCers. </p>
<p>I also find it strange that you didn’t remark on my last post, number 64 in this thread. Maybe you find all the information to be accurate and you have nothing to say.</p>
<p>Sorry if you felt that I insulted your daughter, and I am not familiar with Kansas State’s vet program. I was just saying that most CCers on here wouldn’t consider Kansas State an elite school. Maybe your advice should be geared to students seeking 2nd and 3rd tier schools.</p>
<p>Cjgone,
11238 succinctly showed how flawed your logic is. I really think you should consider the fact that the SAT is not unfair, but just a challenging reasoning test.</p>
<p>I think this discussion lets CCers decide for themselves what to believe. ACT-defenders like GA2012MOM really have no place in this discussion, with their nasty sarcastic remarks. </p>
<p>Until then, I’ll ask again : Why would the colleges, knowing all that they know, treat two completely different tests perfectly equally?</p>
<p>Alright, after taking a practice ACT twice, I think I can come up with reasons as to why the ACT is easier (for me), and how I scored a 34 instead of a 28-29(my SAT equivalent).</p>
<p>Why the ACT is easier:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The questions are very straightforward. I haven’t seen a question that puzzles me and forces me to think for a long minute. I can almost always answer the question with full confidence that I got it right. On the other hand, the SAT has some ridiculous questions that are sometimes hard to understand, and force you to read it multiple times. Also, lets not forget the fill-in section of the Math section of the SAT where there is no multiple choice nor any chance to take a random guess.</p></li>
<li><p>The questions on the ACT are things that almost all high school students learn at one point in their high school career. Grammar, comprehension, math only upto Trig. The reason I say this, is because, especially for the SAT CR, I believe most people lose points on vocabulary. They lose points because they did not learn the necessary vocabulary(1000’s of words) in school, and they need to spend the extra effort to learn it. Now, that doesn’t make the SAT harder than the ACT. Its a matter of learning the vocabulary and inserting it, which, is not hard if you have the vocabulary needed. But in most cases, people give up at the vocabulary point, miss 5 of 8 questions, and deem the SAT to be harder.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Why the ACT is harder:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The ridiculous curve. I think that’s self explanatory.</p></li>
<li><p>The time limit. Look at the sections.
English-75 questions in 45 minutes
Math- 60 questions in 60 minutes
Reading- 4 passages, 40 questions in 35 minutes
Science- 40 questions in 35 minutes.
Now, it may not seem a big deal. But, when you are so time pressured, you can make stupid little mistakes, and not have the chance to look over it due to the fact that time is so short. This factors into the ridiculous curve. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I think from this, I can say that the ACT is more suitable for people who are quick thinkers and can speed through questions. I think the SAT is more suitable for those who know what they are doing, efficiently and smoothly taking out questions carefully.</p>
<p>Cooljazz, your a ■■■■■ to these threads and your posts waste space. They’re ignorant and are based on what some random admission officer who is probably as naive as you said.</p>
<p>Read my above post, it’s logical enough. But I don’t think you will understand it either. Nothing sinks in.</p>
<p>cooljazz, just because ONE adcom told YOU in confidence that they look more highly at the SAT than the ACT, does not make it so! Where is your citation for your “facts?”</p>
<p>Why is it this is the only thing you have posted on since joining CC, besides bashing somebody else wanting to go to a “free” Governors school?</p>
<p>Don’t spew incorrect information please.</p>
<p>cooljazz,</p>
<p>I am thoroughly familiar with the differences between the ACT and the SAT. The fact that there is no penalty for guessing wrong on the ACT does not make it an easier test. To say that it does makes no more sense than saying that because the ACT has a harsher curve than the SAT (which it does), the SAT is the easier test. As for the SAT writing section, you are correct that it officially “counts” as part of the overall score, but I think that you also know that since it is largely subjective (as is the ACT writing section), it isn’t given the same weight in admissions as the CR and M scores are. What you continue to ignore, and what you can’t get around, is the fact that the 1500-1600 range on the SAT CR + M is equal to a 34-36 range on the ACT composite – this is based on the SAT’s concordance tables. When you look at the 2008 national score reports, the percentage of students who hit the 34-36 range on the ACT composite is actually LOWER than the percentage of students who hit the 1500-1600 range on the SAT CR + M – and yet you go on and on about how the ACT is an easier test. The numbers simply don’t support your argument. As for whatever the admissions officer may have told you, I merely point out that his opinion doesn’t make your assertions true, particularly when virtually every college and university in the U.S. states, in writing, that either the ACT or the SAT is acceptable and that neither is preferred over the other. I, for one, do not believe that America’s elite colleges and universities have a hidden agenda when it comes to standardized testing, and I think that you are frankly naive to buy into that idea. If someone characterized you as a “stupid cold-hearted robot who needs to get over myself and will never get into an elite school” (your words), it certainly wasn’t me. I don’t respect your posts, however, because you marshall no evidence to support the points that you attempt to make and I think that you are disseminating erroneous information. To echo your sentiment, “I just don’t think that is the right way to help CCers.” As for your post #64, I did respond to the part of it that was addressed to me. And as for your remark about Kansas State University, I never said that it was an elite school. What I did say is that my daughter was admitted early to K-State’s professional program in veterinary medicine, which is one of only 28 in the United States, and one of the most competitive professional programs that there is – certainly on par, and then some, with undergraduate admission to the elite institutions that you seem to revere so much. I’ll also add that my daughter nailed both the ACT and the SAT, but didn’t think that one was significantly easier than the other. She simply characterized them as “different in style.” In short, cooljazz, I think that it’s you who needs to get your facts straight. From your posts, I can’t ascertain whether you’ve actually even taken the ACT and the SAT, whether you’re actually in college, and if so, whether you’re enrolled in one of the “elite” institutions that you profess to know so much about.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The difference between 700 and 800 is about 4 mistakes, which is pretty significant IMO.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have to disagree.</p>
<p>cooljazz:</p>
<p>there are many types of learning styles and intelligences (see Gardner), and the SAT tests for many of them, but not all. Indeed, if you search long enough you’ll find that certain Myers-Briggs personality types tend to ace the SAT, whereas other MB personality types, with similar IQs don’t fare as well. Thus, the ACT offers an alternative.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that some adcoms personally prefer the SAT. Heck, if was not long ago that Princeton required it (if you lived in SAT country). Wake Forest just dropped it’s SAT requirement a few years ago as well. But preferring the SAT is no different than giving bonus points on an app for completing Calc BC or participating in theater. It’s just one data point. </p>
<p>Notably Yale accepts the ACT in lieu of SAT + Subject Tests, and has for quite awhile. Perhaps Y does this just to increase apps from the flyover country, or perhaps Y finds that high scoring ACT’ers are just as successful as undergrads. </p>
<p>Regardless of the reasons, a 34+ is a great score. If everything else looks great on the app, H&P will accept that kid. They are not gonna say, ooh, s/he is a slacker for taking the “easier” test. That one data point will not get the kid in…</p>
<p>^Agreed. So many adcoms I’ve listened to at info sessions say that they find reasons to admit you, not to not admit you. If a 34 is consistent with the rest of their application, there’s no reason for the college to look down on them for not taking the SAT.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It happens to me almost every time I take the test and I can do the questions without a problem. You don’t have to believe me, anyway. I take the ACT now, so I don’t have to worry about the SAT’s flawed format.</p>
<p>
Explain. I assume you disagree because you don’t have any personal problems with this. It’s a test-taking thing.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Don’t forget that to score a 36 on a sub-section, you need to answer all questions correctly. Thus, leaving one blank is the same as missing it. Of course, the same is essentially true at the top end of the SAT 1 math.</p>