<p>^Yes, but I have never had any problems with making mistakes on the ACT unless I didn’t fully know the problem. On the June test, I got 3 wrong on the math, of only which I 1 got wrong because of a stupid mistake, but it made up that I got one right that I wasn’t sure on.</p>
<p>I miss a dozens on the SAT math no matter if I know how to do the questions. I get the hard ones right and miss all the easy ones. Every single time.</p>
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<p>cjgone, the reason jamesford and I can’t “explain” is not because we don’t have an answer, but because you’re being inconsistent in your statements. You go on and on about how all the math questions are tricky and confusing and deliberately misleading, but when I ask you to produce such questions, all you can come up with are perfectly normal algebra questions! I’ll ask you again: what’s so unreasonable about asking students to handle a four-term equation? a system of three equations? These are standard types of algebra questions that you’ll find in any algebra textbook.</p>
<p>You are losing sight of the fact that the SAT math section is not intended to test how good you are at math. It’s intended to test your reasoning skills within the context of math. If the questions were straightforward to the extent that you could mindlessly plug numbers into formulas with no more than a quick glance at the question, they might test your math knowledge, but not your math reasoning skills. By making you jump through some hoops to get the correct answer, they’re just making sure that you’re forced to use your mind to solve the questions rather than some pre-concocted memorizable formulas. You’ll respond by saying that using tricks and ambiguity to confuse students doesn’t test reasoning skills – but I’m still waiting for you to produce examples of such questions. Until then, I’m not going to give your arguments any credence.</p>
<p>It’s a test taking issue that the SAT preys on. Everyone tries looking at statistics, but they only show so much. People need to stop looking at the robotic side of the test and look at the test from the perspective of an actual human being.</p>
<p>The examples I give might not be a big deal to you, but they are for me. I don’t notice minor differences in every single problem I work on because i’m not perfect unfortunately. My mind isn’t linear and organized, I can’t just take a list of numbers and process them like that. They get jumbled in my mind and I don’t always correctly multiply or use them. I also don’t focus on minor details, which I will equate to the following example. For example, a problem that asks you to calculate something that requires a given unit meters, but the numbers are given in centimeters. You have to notice this very small difference or you will fail to solve the problem. I don’t notice things like this. I don’t have a checklist mentality to go “okay, I need this and this, etc”. But it’s not that important either. Just because I can’t see obvious things doesn’t make me “bad at math”.</p>
<p>The SAT abuses both of my problems that I am born with by purposely trying to give unnecessary amounts of information and using very small details. This is called testing pressure, there’s enough people like me that have this problem. Maybe not here, because everyone is pretty much perfect and everything comes naturally, but not for me and others.</p>
<p>Going back to this very simple math problem:</p>
<p>If 3(2x+5) = 6(x+2t) , what is 12t?</p>
<p>This is just multiplying the numbers, its easy. I can do it in my sleep. But when i’m taking the test, I will multiply incorrectly because of the useless information given. I’m pretty sure when i did this problem on the test I got 6x + 5 = 6x+12, x = 5 (aka, stupid mistake). I jumbled the information incorrectly because of time pressure. I don’t consider myself bad at math because I fail to solve problems like this. I can solve the complex algebraic questions because they’re straightforward mathmatically. I don’t have this problem on the ACT either because the questions don’t try to use these test tricks. I almost never make stupid errors on the ACT because the format doesn’t promote them. If I wanr to succeed on the SAT, I would have to practice some checklist mind set that is unnecessary for mathmatical success.</p>
<p>You won’t understand because you don’t have the same problems. You can say it’s an excuse, but w\e. Luckily, someone who saw a different perspective made the ACT to give me a chance at success.</p>
<p>Plateau comes to mind. Something to understand is that the people that don’t miss any questions could have done the same test (SAT/ACT) with 10 extra questions or with 10 less minutes and still not miss any (and they are actual human beings). This is your competition at this level and why the scoring is curved. There’s nothing they can do. Would you like to look at the statistics of the people that took SATs for the 7th grade Duke TIP? If someone can score 750-800 in 7th grade, what do you expect them to score in 11th? They do this in M, CR, and W sections. Be happy to be in the 98-99%tile. US is a country of 300+ million people. Even .1% is 300,000+ people.</p>
<p>cj:</p>
<p>don’t beat yourself up – thousands of others also make silly mistakes. The SAT is designed that way on purpose. It HAS to be. SAT math only covers Alg I, Geom and ~5 Alg II problems. If it was not “tricky,” everyone could score 600 plus, and those strong in math would score 750-800. Thus, SAT would have no “curve” and the test would be worthless. Think about Harvard’s admission review: 25,000 students apply all with an 800 on math; the test becomes meaningless.</p>
<p>The bottom line is, the SAT is more highly regarded than the ACT in terms of score conversions. I’m not saying that the SAT is a “better” test than the ACT in any way. However, there are many more students who receive a perfect score on the ACT than on the SAT. If you had a choice between receiving a 2400 on the SAT or a 36 on the ACT, you would/should choose the 2400.</p>
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<p>Yes, but the difference is that I can do all the hard questions but I incorrectly multiply on the easiest problems or I solve for something that was supposed to be the radius and not the diameter.</p>
<p>Never had this problem ever on the ACT after 2 years now.</p>
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<p>Uh, maybe because a 36 is equal to a 2380-2400. No one ever said it was exactly a 2400–it can’t be as you get 2 35s and 2 36s and still have a 36…</p>
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<p>I don’t see any useless information.</p>
<p>meh…the current valedictorian at our school got like a 1930 on the SAT and a 35 on the ACT…he’s pretty smart…he didnt study for the SAT and studied minimally for the ACT. I guess thats just how some people were built! another one of my friends got like a 2030 on the SAT and a 34 on the ACT…so. but i agree, i dont think this dramatic of an increase is common…serendipity plays a big role i’d say, but thats just me</p>
<p>I know people who ace the SAT but struggle with the ACT and vice versa…different people do well with different tests I suppose. My recommendation for everyone is to just take both and see which one you’re better at</p>
<p>This entire conversation is really crap as far as actually applying to college goes. If ACT is such an inferior test, why do schools accept ACT in lieu of SAT I AND II’s. Seems to me that if you need to undergo MORE testing to prove the same thing or confirm application/grades/curriculum, it’s the SAT that’s inferior. Also, most schools don’t superscore ACT’s but will superscore SAT’s,</p>
<p>Son never automatically submitted results to schools and so he had to deliberately go back and submit. It seemed a waste of money to submit both SAT I’s and II’s when he could submit ACT’s.</p>
<p>^ they do that mostly to increase access, because there are rural parts of the country where there are no SAT locations for 50 miles, and the local high school only offers the ACT. it’s not fair to expect those kids to take subject tests.</p>
<p>Ah, the costal bias. Everything east of Utah and west of Pennsylvania is just “rural parts of the country”; you just can’t expect those hicks out there to have GOOD college admissions tests, now can you?</p>
<p>^ thanks for putting my words in my mouth. i said nothing about the coasts being better, or about which test is better. rather, i was making an intelligent point. i once read a post on CC from a kid who had no SAT testing centers within 100(yes, 100) miles of his home in Kansas. his town’s high school offered the ACT, though. that’s the practical reason for the policy.</p>
<p>this is the same explanation i got from the admissions officer from penn. he told me that since i’m from NJ i should take
either the SAT+subject tests or the ACT+subject tests to be competitive in my region.</p>
<p>Apologies if that’s not what you meant. It’s just that with people constantly declaring how the SAT is so much better, I assumed that by saying the ACT was accepted “mostly to increase access” you meant that it wasn’t valued as highly.</p>
<p>How many schools, if any superscore the ACT? Aren’t there a few schools that look at only the math/reading section? I scored 32 overall, but 34 math, 36 reading. Interested in math, possibly engineering.</p>
<p>I believe Boston University superscores the ACT.</p>
<p>Cjgone,
Again, your complaints about the SAT just show how useful it is. It separates the plug-and-chug, fairly adept math students like you from the students who pay attention to detail and have the math skills. </p>
<p>“If someone accidentally found a square root incorrectly (actually I do it all the time), that doesn’t mean they lack the mathmatical knowledge. It means they’re to qualified for the work.”</p>
<p>Uhh, you’re going to be in a lot of trouble in your future math classes if you screw up easy calculations because you’re “to (sic) qualified.” Math is about attention to detail, and I don’t know why you think you deserve a stellar math score. Is it just because you know the Pythagorean Theorem? I just don’t get it. </p>
<p>“Not everyone is perfecttt.”
And that’s why the math SAT curve is harsh and the questions are “tricky.” Only the best math students can pull off that 800. This is the way any national standardized test should be. </p>
<p>So is there any concrete reason you don’t like the SAT, other than the fact that you are forced to think carefully? It is a REASONING test after all. </p>
<p>Gbesq,</p>
<p>You seem to feel that showing the national numbers will prove the equality of the tests. There are just clear flaws in your reasoning and evidence.</p>
<ol>
<li>For the SAT, the writing section counts. Period. You can’t simply discount the whole section and use the 1600 scale. Sure, some college weigh the writing less than others, but it is still considered in the majority of elite colleges. I don’t think you told your daughter on the day of her SAT, “Oh don’t worry about the writing, you might as well spend that time taking a power nap!” </li>
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<p>Also, the SAT counts the essay as part of the scaled score. So unlike the ACT, a person with an 8 on the essay will never get a perfect score. At the moment, you are using 2/3 of the test. Maybe you should find out if the percentage of people who scored 34-36 is less than the percentage who scored 2260-2400. It’s time to start using all the facts, and not just taking skewed numbers.</p>
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<li>Most importantly, you forget that the population of ACT-takers is vastly different from the population of SAT-takers. A lot of ACT-defenders can’t accept this fact, and claim that all students in the nation are equally gifted academically. The truth is, people near the East and West Coasts generally favor the SAT, while students in rural areas, the South, and the Midwest take the ACT. </li>
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<p>Students near the coasts have always been more competitive on the whole than students in the South and the Midwest. There are great maps online of geographic testing trends. Just compare New Jersey and California (SAT states) to Mississippi and Wyoming (ACT states). Thus, you can’t simply take the numbers of different testing populations and compare them directly. Your evidence would be valid if you made every student in the nation take both tests and then compared the results. </p>
<p>Gbesq,
Sorry if these facts alarm or upset you. I hope you will not become hostile so we can maintain a civil discussion. Again, we are talking about elite undergraduate universities, and I don’t feel that Kansas State is one of them. I don’t know on what basis you have deemed me unqualified to attend Duke without knowing anything about my high school record. Maybe you should consider the fact that YOU may be spreading false information without leaving any room for opposition.</p>
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<p>2260 is a 99.3% from the 2008 report from CollegeBoard.
34 is a 99.3% from the 2008 report from ACT.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure they’re equivalent. Maybe you can’t figure it out, but all you need to do is add up the people with each score and divide by the total. I know this is hard for you.</p>
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<p>Here is a quote from the College Board on the proper use of the ACT/SAT concordance tables which describes the procedure for comparing SAT scores to the ACT composite with writing and without writing. In short, cooljazz, the scores can be fairly compared and adcoms know how to do it. That is why concordance tables exist. </p>
<p>“From ACT to SAT: </p>
<p>The ACT Composite score does not contain the ACT Writing Test score. For this reason, you will get the most accurate estimates if you use the tables as follows:</p>
<p>•For students who do not take the optional ACT Writing test:
◦use Table 1 to concord an ACT Composite score to SAT (CR+M) score on the 400-1600 scale
•For students who take the ACT Plus Writing:
◦use Table 1 to concord from the ACT Composite (which does not include ACT Writing) score to SAT (CR+M) score; use Table 2 to concord from ACT Combined English/Writing score to SAT Writing score; then simply add SAT (CR+M) concorded scores and SAT (W) concorded scores to get to the SAT 600-2400 scale</p>
<p>From SAT to ACT:</p>
<p>•Add the SAT Critical Reading and Mathematics scores together; Use Table 1 to concord from the SAT (CR+M) score to the ACT Composite score; use Table 2 to concord from SAT Writing score to the ACT English/Writing score”</p>
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<p>As usual, cooljazz, I would ask you to provide a link or a cite to the evidence that supports your statement. Again, you offer nothing other than your opinion to support your argument. I would also respectfully suggest that you take a course in elementary statistics because some of the essential concepts, such as equating, seem to be lost on you. </p>
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<p>I am neither alarmed nor upset because you still haven’t posted any facts or any evidence to support your opinion.</p>