<p>My violinist son has changed teachers in the start of his senior year because he was hitting a serious wall with his old teacher. He has busted right through it with the new one and things are looking much more positive than they did a few months ago. His old teacher loves him, but we felt she had lost confidence in him and a new teacher was called for even at such an unpropitious moment. It appears that we were right about this.</p>
<p>The question is: She has prepared a loving recommendation that qualifies his abilities indirectly. The new teacher thinks he's the hottest thing since Joshua Bell. Our intention has been to submit both recommendations. I'm wondering if we have to submit the old teacher's one at all and, if we do, what kind of affect it is likely to have on his acceptance. We can get recommendations elsewhere if necessary. How important are these and how, exactly are they used? e.g., do the prospective teachers read them or just the admissions people? Any opinions?</p>
<p>many schools don't ask for them (Juilliard, for example); but for those that do, you probably need a recommendation from someone you son has studied with for some length of time, so perhaps you should send both.</p>
<p>I think the right answer here...is a little bit tricky. (1) Has either teacher previously had students of such a caliber that they can reliably say "hottest thing since Joshua Bell" or "pretty good, but not a likely solo career"? Where have their previous students gone? A teacher who places a student a year in a conservatory similar in selectivity to the one(s) your son is applying to, has more credibility in this than one who does not.</p>
<p>(2) Overly-enthusiastic praise can sound a bit naive, but if teacher-2 can back it up with examples of his accomplishments, then, what the heck.</p>
<p>My strategy would probably be: If teacher 1 is the more credible, then perhaps I would send both letters. If teacher 2 is more credible, then maybe I wouldn't send the earlier letter.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I think your advice is good. It's complicated. </p>
<p>They both went to IU. Teacher 1 became a teacher and teacher 2 (gingold studio) became a successful performer.</p>
<p>Teacher 1: head of the string dept at a major conservatory prep - well-known. has placed a number of students in top conservatories although many just go to college. her students are almost all very advanced.</p>
<p>Teacher 2: concertmaster for 1 yr at London Symphony, 11 yrs as assoc. concertmaster in an important U.S. orchestra. He is currently not working very much in music. he has taught somewhat infrequently, but has had great success placing students with top top teachers. people who know him have huge respect for him as a musician and he really is great. he's very well connected at IU, not so much elsewhere. </p>
<p>Teacher 1 is probably better-known in the teaching world, teacher 2 in the performance world. </p>
<p>We don't think my son is close to being the next Joshua Bell -- he just wants to play the violin (orchestra/chamber, etc) nor is Teacher 2 saying this in his recommendation which is strenuously positive, but sounds responsible - i agree that going overboard won't help. But his private opinion is that the last teacher was a disaster for son and didn't know how to teach to serious talent. I don't completely agree with him - she helped my son to get to where this new teacher would be interested in him. But I can see that his approach is much better for son right now -more like a conservatory teacher, less like a teacher of "gifted" children. He thinks my son deserves one of the top top teachers in a top school. Whether this can be accomplished in the few months they've got together is another issue.........probably not....but hopefully he can get into one of the good schools and get a good teacher.</p>
<p>Another possibility on the table is to go to a local lib. arts college and continue to study with Teacher 2 for at least another year. The chemistry is really quite remarkable.</p>
<p>Memake makes some good points. And given the backgrounds of the two teachers as listed, it really is a crapshoot.</p>
<p>One way to use the "best" letter in the process is to actually look at faculty backgrounds (commonality of their teachers, colleges, festival, orchestral experience) to where he's applying, and use the letter that would seemingly have the most weight among the specific faculty at a particular school. </p>
<p>This is still a tough call, without actually being able to compare letters. Length of the relationship with teacher 2 is shorter, but son appears to have gained significant ground. Teacher 1's letter is not damning, but not necessarily stellar.</p>
<p>Do they address different aspects of technique, talent, musicianship, etc where one in fact supplements the other? Sometimes the whole is more than the some of the parts...</p>
<p>This site really is an amazing resource. I really appreciate the ability to talk this one through.</p>
<p>Teacher 1 knows him really well in private lessons and in groups. She talks about what a hard worker he is, how well he interacts with others, that he can hold his own with stronger players allowing them to "inspire" and not "intimidate" him. Works well with the group, is well liked by other musicians who "enjoy and respect" him. Mostly good. This aspect Teacher 2 knows nothing about. </p>
<p>She also talks about getting him 3 years ago with good ear and sense of sound, but disorganized technique. He's worked hard and improved a lot, but it's the part about how he's a "late bloomer" and the implication that most of the kids around him are better that is subtly damning even though he has given "artistic" performances of late. What bothers me the most is the final sentence. She doesn't say she thinks he'll be a successful violinist - says she doesn't know what he'll end up doing, but it will be interesting and creative. There are some good things here though.</p>
<p>Teacher 2 says that he's the fastest learner he's ever taught and talks more directly about technique, practise, focus, etc. He also says he's a very nice kid, etc.</p>
<p>I'm becoming inclined to go ahead and use both. They will hear him play. That's what is most important, no? Teacher 2 is bringing out an artistic side that was dormant from an obsession with small technicalities.</p>
<p>I have to agree with using both, as I read them as complementary assessments, each addressing some specific strengths. And yes, they will hear him play.</p>
<p>Just for reference, my son had five: one from his studio teacher, one from youth symphony executive director, one from his chamber music coach, one from his high school orchestra director, and one from the high school music chair. Each one addressed some very specific qualities pertaining to aspects of his development, strengths and talents, and there was some overlap. Each was unique enough so as not to be redundant. He was able to mix and match these recommendations according to the schools and programs he was applying to, and also used the most pertinent ones in support of specific application essays or goal/objective statements on the applications.</p>
<p>I agree - send both. The bottom line is that the letters of recommendation will not likely be a big factor. As we all know, the audition is the main thing.</p>
<p>I agree as well - send both. About the only scenario I can see that would work against your son is if Teacher 1 happens to be best buddies with a violin teacher at one of the schools to which he is applying. Otherwise, I think that his audition will far outweigh any perceived damnation by faint praise.</p>
<p>Actually, you've hit on something BD. She was guiding us in our search and several teachers my son has played for/taken lessons with are indeed friends of hers (at Michigan, IU, and CIM). However, they are not the teachers he is requesting even though he's applying to those schools. His new teacher is looking for a completely different style of teaching for him. In fact, he's not going to do any more travelling/lessons because he needs the time to practise and do school work this fall. We'll just have to see how it pans out in the end. If he plays terrifically, I figure that's what really matters. It does feel like a claustrophobic world, though!</p>
<p>In that case, Teacher 1's friends will be well aware that your son once studied with her. Are they also aware that your son has recently switched teachers, and why?</p>
<p>If they do not see teacher 1's letter of recommendation along with the other one, they may find that odd and contact her to see what is going on. They may do that in any event if they get the letter from Teacher 2 and did not already know that your son had changed teachers. If they do get Teacher 1's letter they may well take it at face value, having already heard your son play and expecting to hear him again at his audition. I still think you would do best by sending both letters. As others have said, the audition is paramount. </p>
<p>I doubt that most professional teachers would hold a good but less-than-ecstatic recommendation against your son (particularly in the face of a good audition) and, if they did, perhaps he would be better off elsewhere. He has already gotten favorable attention on the merits of his playing from a couple of very important teachers. Have faith that he will do the same with a few more at the college level.</p>
<p>You have raised an interesting question. We had not intended to address this issue directly to the schools because it is awkward. It will be quite obvious that a switch was made from the application information. It is true that we were driving quite a distance to take him to the old teacher and the new one is local. This makes a tidy explanation - needed time to do schoolwork, prepare for auditions, etc. Plus the program took up his Saturdays and now they're free. But being unsure, we thought not to say anything specific, just send in the two rec's and let the facts speak for themselves. Now I wonder if we shouldn't address this more specifically - perhaps a letter to the admissions offices. Or does this give it too much attention. So hard to know what to do.</p>
<p>I don't think that there is a need to pre-address a change of studio teachers in the app documents or seperately. There are many reasons why students change teachers, even longstanding ones. Schedule, time and distance conflicts, money issues, technique impasses; a good teacher will even recommend that it's time to "move on". It's definately not unusual, and normally happens every three to five years.</p>
<p>If the issue comes up in the audition or interview process, I would address it honestly at that point.</p>
<p>I personally wouldn't explain. They can certainly ask if they are interested. There are many valid reasons for changing teachers, including personality and style issues. But changing teachers is not at all unusual and I think you might be overthinking it.</p>
<p>We moved, so my D sent recommendations from two teachers, because her current (at the time) teacher had only been teaching her for 2 months and we felt like we needed a deeper history. Given the addresses on the recommendation letters, it was obvious that we had moved. If your teachers happen to live in different cities, I would let the address do the talking for you. As long as there was no bad blood during the exchange that would lead to a negative reputation or rumors, I wouldn't address any reason in particular. If pressed for a reason for the change, I would be honest, expressing it in terms that emphasized how much I wanted to learn and grow, rather than a criticism or deficiency of the teacher. </p>
<p>As far as the caliber of recommendation, again, schools are used to everything. A glowing recommendation for a mediocre student does more to hurt the teacher's reputation than the student's chances. My D is not conservatory quality, and her recommendations from both teachers reflected that. On the other hand, my S was conservatory quality, and his recommendations were over the top. They both got in where they wanted. The important thing is that the recommendation match the audition.</p>
<p>I think recommendations are used mainly to verify that the student has indeed studied privately, and to get some back-up for the claims the student might be making. Other than that, they aren't too important.</p>
<p>[Edit: Missed violadad's post, or cross posted. I agree!]</p>
<p>I did not actually get to see the recommendations written for my daughter. We provided those who wrote them with pre-addressed stamped envelopes and, where applicable, the forms provided for this purpose by various schools. The recommendations went directly to the schools rather than through us and we made it clear to the writers that we wanted honesty rather than flattery.</p>
<p>I agree with binx - don't overthink this. If your son's goal is to find the school that is the best match, accurate information is a good thing. If the audition is great and the recommendation mediocre (or vice versa) more than once or twice, it is the reputation of the person writing the inaccurate recommendations that will suffer. Teachers on both sides of the process know this and, except in clearly exceptional cases, they tend to leave themselves a little wiggle room when writing recommendations. Unless you feel strongly that one of the letters has misrepresented your son you should go with the flow at this point.</p>
<p>There should be no need to address the change of teacher issue unless asked. As binx and violadad have pointed out, it happens all the time for a variety of very good reasons.</p>
<p>I'm interested in the number of recommendation letters, too--and that violadad's S had 5, which seems right for his multi-faceted playing experience.</p>
<p>Several of the schools S is applying to ask for one letter (but they don't say ONLY). It isn't overloading the student's application to have three specifically for voice? In this case, voice teacher (5 years, but only for solos during boy-treble years; 2 years regular lessons), church choir director (5 years), school chamber choir director (2 1/2 years). I'm imaging they will all be different, as violadad says. </p>
<p>These would be only for the BMus schools; his BA schools will have only the required academic teacher recommendation(s), plus one non-required character/voice letter from church choir director.</p>
<p>Not wanting to sidetrack this helpful thread, but seems apropos.</p>
<p>Neumes, I'd be surprised if even the BA schools aren't interested in at least the recommendation from the private teacher. All my D's schools (she applied as a minor or BA, although she ended up BMus) asked for a letter from the private instructor. Some asked for two letters (which we were sending anyway, as I explained above); only one school asked for three. These were in part due to the fact that she was applying for music scholarships. So if your S plans to apply for money, or has to audition, look for an additional application - usually comes directly from the Music school or department and won't be part of the regular application.</p>
<p>In fact, my D used more letters for her non-performance applications than my S did for his performance ones.</p>