My experience is that the way a school treats students during the application process says a lot about the values of that school. While it is always possible that there is one wonderful or terrible admissions counselor, the admissions department tends to reflect the school’s values. If admissions officers seem to know students well as you walk through campus with them and if they make themselves available to you, that says a lot. If you find that you can get answers to questions promptly, that is probably something you can expect once you arrive on campus. If the admissions process runs smoothly and seems relatively transparent, that probably is true of the school in general. It is also telling if you find that applicants are being treated poorly routinely or if admissions officers are evasive, abrupt or impatient; if you apply to one school but are offered an inappropriate option instead; if officers are unavailable at key times when needing answers to questions can be anticipated; or if you see instances of mild deception. What has your experience been like?
Schools budget tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to outreach in admissions but often are blind to areas where they lack basic customer service. Perhaps it’s taking oneself too seriously vs. truly happy to have a chance to teach hungry learners? I dunno. Maybe send out surveys of visitors? How friendly was the staff at the visitors office, really?
My kiddo applied to a lesser known school’s honors college. A large writing sample was required and she submitted her IB Extended Essay. She sent it in on a Saturday morning. That afternoon, the dean of the honors college emailed her with comments on the 18pp. document and a veiled “you’re in” note to boot. THIS kind of personal attn is one of the reasons that tipped the scale for my kid over other, bigger name offers.
The differences are interesting. My son is applying to quite a few schools, including two larger ones. One of those has been amazing with responses to emails within hours and personally working with the GC to find a lost document. The other, no response to an email and no other communication. I would’ve chalked it up to it being a big school, but seeing how the other one is, I know now that they are just lacking in staff or worse, just don’t really care all that much.
My D has consistently found this incredibly frustrating. During her “showing interet stage” she diligently emailed reps at all her colleges (just a couple of times, as she didn’t want to pester) with pointed questions, etc… And while they all say on their websites and during campus tours “we are happy to answer questions, get in touch and we will respond” she found that about 8 of the 12 colleges she applied to either never, or rarely responded. These are not Top 20 colleges, (except one, but she knew better than to email). The most responsive rep by far was from William and Mary, and she ended up not applying. Even when she asked for her file to be deactivated, the rep was so nice in his email, that she wondered if she had made a mistake!
Anyway, she is done applying now. Because she had no luck getting responses from reps, if she has had a question, she has contacted admissions directly.
For both my D and my S, the admission office was not entirely reflective of the rest of the school. Once you get admitted and decide to go to a college a student will have no more dealings with the admissions office (unless they do a work-study job with them). I always told my kids to base their college decision on the school itself, the fit, etc. and not by the admissions office.
Happy1. Yes, the point is that often the actions of the admissions office reflects the values of the school. Not always. But if you detect deception or evasiveness or lack of availability of people to ask questions, look to see if that is systemic, Obviously one would not base the decisions simply on the actions of the admissions counselor, for example, Rather look more carefully at other aspects of the school where similar things may be going on. Likewise if you are treated really well and the admissions officer seems especially thoughtful. There is sometimes a disconnect between the conduct of admissions and that values endorsed by the administration of the school but more often there is not.
To go along with this topic, I found this Wall Street Journal article: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124096471555766239. Interesting how some rejection letters make the applicant feel like “I’m glad I applied and I’m happy the school considered me,” whereas other colleges send out letters that make the applicant feel like “I’m not good enough.” Either way, it’s not an admit, but the words the schools use surely have different connotations and levels of sympathy.
Here’s the most bizarre of my son’s experiences, reposted from another thread:
" The other night (early December) my son got an email from one of the schools to which he’s applied. “Congratulations on your acceptance to . You’re invited to a reception at _( close to us) where you can meet members of the faculty and have your questions answered.” type of email.
He responds: “Does that mean I’ve been accepted? I haven’t received a letter of acceptance from you yet.”
Their response: “Oops, sorry. Sometimes we make mistakes too. You’re invited to a reception at ____( close to us) where you can meet members of the faculty and have your questions answered.”
He responds: “Does that mean I’m not accepted yet?”
Their response: “That’s correct; this is not an indication of acceptance.”
So he changed his status on Naviance, then changed it back 20 minutes later.
Honestly, it’s not a big deal. My guess is that one office got a list of acceptances, but another hasn’t yet gotten around to mailing them out.
But had he not yet gotten any acceptances anywhere else, I think it would have been pretty frustrating."
It’s been over a month since that “mistake” and still no word from that college.
And let’s just say they would have to do a pretty incredible turnaround to erase the idea that their “mistakes” are not taken seriously, and that their treatment of their students is somewhat lacking. No visit to that school is planned.
@bjkmom I think that is truly awful. What makes it worse is you caught the mistake, not the school. That is unacceptable. Frankly the other items like not getting back to you, are not an indicator of anything except the competency of the individual in charge of that area or your file. I also think it depends on what level you are looking at. Most students need to either follow the money or want to follow the prestige. So whether they get some nice invitation to something is just not important.
There were a bunch of schools last year that she emailed with updates at this time. Some were very nice and enthusiastic and she was rejected or wait listed anyway. If anything, the friendliness was sometimes an accurate gauge and sometimes a waste of time. She got an incredibly friendly letter from a school she was wait listed that was a low target right before decision time.
One school that she really wanted, during the wait list process hardly replied. Her school used to do really well at this college but has not gotten anyone in for a while. I think the rep for whatever reason does not “like” her school. I do not hold it against the college but think it is either a bad rep or one that is not interested in students from her school or just was not interested in her. It is too bad because it would have been the best fit. If she had gotten in, she would not have hesitated about going.
Now is about the time that students start getting word that some of the colleges are starting to game them while trying to game US News ranks. The hint is when students get offers that, from a pedagogical standpoint, are not good for them. These are offers to come in the Spring so their scores don’t count against the school who never-the-less wants the four years of tuition. And hold on to your seats folks, this is the worst: Students with strong academic records are offered the opportunity to pay high costs for dorms and are invited to take courses in low level community colleges (which all cc are not) with the promise to be switched to the university at some point a year or so later. This is just about the most horrid thing I’ve heard about. It uses a carrot to pull in a student who wants the “name” of the university on their transcript but then withholds the appropriate academic experience that the student is fully capable of benefiting from and buses the student to a community college that has academic expectations beneath their AP classes that they often Aced. Do not be suckered into an academic experience you know to be a poor one for you. A school that is gaming your education is gaming other things too. Beware!
I talked to a parent whose daughter had accepted an offer of admission to Wesleyan (the women’s college in Georgia, not the university in CT). They offered a very attractive merit package, called her personally to congratulate her, and sent her a dozen long stemmed roses. It made quite the impression.
I tend to agree with this. After my younger D was accepted, she was on the fence between two schools. She emailed professors from both schools to ask further questions. Every professor from one school replied to her and sometimes roped in another professor. The professors from the other school never replied. She went with the first one, and she has been very happy with her decision. As a parent, I liked the first school better, because they were more responsive to general questions regarding financial aid. The other school would hardly talk to me about it.
Even if the admissions experience has nothing to do with the culture at the school, it’s hard to be excited about a school that doesn’t seem very excited about you.
NEU has been really bad about replying to my emails. Colorado College on the other hand has been awesome in terms of customer service. Maybe that’s just because Northeastern is such a big school…
@lostaccount wrote
Well that’s one I hadn’t heard of before :(. How do you know the school is doing a bait and switch on you? Do they flat-out say “we’re going to bus you to community college”, or do they couch it in purple prose so people don’t realize?
My daughter got a postcard last week from an admissions officer at one of the colleges she applied to praising her for putting together an application that did a good job of showcasing her interests and talents. We weren’t sure whether to interpret that as “You’re probably going to be accepted.” It was a nice note anyway.
A corrupt program:
MotherOfDragons, they send a letter saying that the applicant was not accepted to the program that they had applied to. But instead, they extend another offer. The student may attend a different program. This program entails living in the dorm but taking the first two years at community college with a guaranteed enrollment in the originally sought after program if the students maintains a 3.0. Of course there are community colleges with similar arrangements with universities (guarantee matriculation) so on the surface this looks similar but it is anything but. The students are usually well prepared for college and often have already taken tons of AP classes. Their credentials may be slightly lower than those of others accepted into the university but not always. The students often (wrongly) believe having that university’s name on their diploma is worth spending two years in courses that they won’t necessarily benefit as fully from. And, in many instances placement in community college is absurd. By the way, I am talking about a state or states where the community colleges are not outstanding. In fact, the entire system(s) is lacking.
The reason it is such a horrid program (my opinion) is rooted in the underlying motive of the program which has nothing to do with pedagogy–it is the opposite. Community colleges are feeling pressure to improve their outcomes for at-risk students (their usually clientele). The completion rates are abysmal. By taking students who should be (and are fully prepared to be, and applied to be) headed to 4 year universities after a very successful high school career, and forcing them into community college, the community colleges look like they are improving. Their completion rates go way up. In fact I just saw an article singing their praises for just that-bucking the odds and seeing their community college students graduate at better rates than before. Further, the 4 year school can fill their expensive dorms without having to accommodate students in the classroom and they can fill their empty seats, created by drop outs or transfers after the 2nd year-a win-win for the university because they can also fill slots/dorm rooms without those scores or grades showing up on their freshman profile-adding to the already large number of students at the school whose grades and scores bear no resemblance to those that are published for the school. Naturally their increased graduation rate comes at the hides of those students who should, from a pedagogical standpoint, be in 4 year colleges from the start. And, the “improved” numbers for the community college is obtained without ever helping even one more at risk student complete their degree. It is shameful!
Naturally a better program, and one with strong pedagogical rationale, would be to identify some strong students who are headed to community college because they are not yet ready for the 4 year experience. Offer those students a place in the dorms and encouragement not to drop out and provide needed academic supports. But that would require too much effort. So this system’s solution is to continue to game numbers instead of providing students with an appropriate academic experience.