<p>^Just forget about it. Don’t let other people tell you about where you wanna go. I personally think people who choose a worse college over Oxford because of this “backdoor” issue are idiots. They’re passing over an Emory education because of a bunch of useless bull%^&*. K I need to stop using the B word now.</p>
<p>You seem upset Beretta. Too bad.</p>
<p>It is sad to see the negative attitudes that have been expressed on this thread! I am an Emory alum who spent 4 memorable years as an undergraduate on main campus. Well before this round of college applicants were born, I was accepted to Emory and the northern schools favored by my family, as a very young high school junior (not senior) with perfect stats (early admission, EU still has this option). I chose Emory over HYP because I fell in love with the school and city on my 1st visit. In a time before CC and Facebook, people were less concerned about ‘feeling good about a school because it had a low acceptance rate’. Snob appeal was not the criteria for selecting a college.</p>
<p>Oxford was an integral part of Emory then, as it should be now. We went to college before the internet and cell phones, and since CNN didn’t exist, our first introduction to Atlanta was during orientation. But even in those ancient times, it did not take long for freshman at ‘big Emory’ to learn about our classmates at ‘little Emory’ and to start building lifelong friendships (and respect!) with our classmates in Oxford. E-Ox is Emory’s true LAC! For the student who wants to experience the small community feel of an Amherst or Bowdoin, coupled with a true undergraduate teaching focus of a Dartmouth, and then explore the opportunities of a world-class research university in a vibrant city, it’s hard to match the Ox-E to EC experience. </p>
<p>Lower level classes on Emory’s main campus can be disappointing. EC has many of the same issues found at research-focused universities (UVA, UNC-CH, NW, Carnegie Mellon, U Mich, UCB, UCLA, Notre Dame, Stanford, etc). Large lecture classes. A prof who may not ever call you by name and who teaches by directly reading from the textbook he wrote. Labs are taught and exams graded by your (not) favorite TA. Certainly, you can still find the perfect seminar and incredible teachers during all 4 years at EC, but Oxford is where you’ll find excellent undergraduate teaching in every class, every day. </p>
<p>For a number of reasons (none being that these kids have sub-par applications), there are distinguished deans & faculty at EU whose kids attended/now attend E-Ox (some were accepted to HYP & Amherst, Williams, Swat). Quite a few of the Emory establishment went to E-Ox themselves. So those of you who are hoping to impress the powers-that-be in EU’s professional /grad programs/adcom interviews should take care to not toss around the sentiments expressed in this thread. Yes, it is true, not a myth, that the students who joined us at EC junior year were likely to blow the curve in any class. E-Ox had the rep for being very difficult but also very supportive, and it produced a tight-knit group of students who were well-prepared. They had more Phi Beta Kappas & Fulbrights than the average 4 year EC, as well as, impressive grad school stats. One day, E-Ox will cease to be Emory’s best kept secret. It is more like an elite 2 year residential college, similar to popular college-in-a-college programs today. However, the school is small. It is definitely in a rural, Southern town. And if you are debating between a UNC-CH or GaTech college experience and E-Ox then you need to really decide what kind of campus life you want. </p>
<p>If the majority of today’s EC students are truly ignorant about Oxford’s place in the history and life of Emory, and if they are prone to expressing such negativity towards other members of their university (as I saw in this thread), then we have a serious problem that is damaging the very character of the school.</p>
<p>For the stats required to get in, Oxford is by far the best academic option simply because you graduate with an Emory diploma and nobody will be the wiser. </p>
<p>For all intensive purposes, the “bitterness” you are asking about does not exist on campus. Why? Because Oxford juniors/seniors represent ~5-10% of campus. I know a few students who came from Oxford, but not many. Most tend to stick with the friends they met at Oxford. </p>
<p>Any tension between the two is pretty superficial. Emory students are ****ed that “unworthy” students are getting the same diploma and walking around bragging about getting into “Emory.” Then the Oxford kids need to defend themselves by toting their “harder classes” and other accolades. It’s not like you’ll ever see people fight over this stuff on campus, and I would never not be friends with someone just because they came from Oxford.</p>
<p>bottomline, if you can go to Emory over Oxford, then there are many advantage to it (search the forum, there are a ton of threads about it). But if you are looking at Oxford versus a school with similar admittance stats, then don’t pass up a chance to get an Emory education because you are scared that some may judge you.</p>
<p>How is this even a topic of discussion? Beretta, I do not accept your justification of why some Emory College students feel bitter… the one about Emory College students thinking they worked really hard whereas Oxford College colleges are getting a backdoor to Emory. In every single college, you will find people who have lower stats. You think Harvard doesn’t have students with less than 1900 on their SATs… ofcourse it does. However, just because someone has lower stats does not lower the standard of the “Emory” brand… I fell it enriches it… it adds more diversity which Emory should and is proud of. </p>
<p>I personally agree with a poster above that Oxford college is a GEM for students who, for whatever reason, did not do amazing in highschool, but have amazing potential to succeed. In fact, it is very impressive if a school can turn students with high potential into high-performance students (from various sources, I’ve heard Oxford students are well prepared and, at the least, keep up with original Emory College students their junior year). </p>
<p>I would also like to point out that some posters use stats to claim that Oxford students are inferior. Reality: Emory does not simply look at stats. If they did, many of us would NOT have gotten into Emory College… I had a 2200 SAT but I’m reasonably sure that many other students did just as well, if not better… and if admissions were simply based on SAT scores + GPA, there is a good chance I would not have gotten in. Remember that many of US got into Emory College not simply because of our stats, but also because of our intangibles (our experiences, our diversity etc.) Similarly, many Oxford students get selected not because of their stats, but because of other positive aspects of their application. So if we choose to put down some Oxford students claiming they have lower stats, then we must also concede that many of us would not have gotten into Emory College if Emory simply focused on GPAs and SATs. </p>
<p>Lastly, some in this thread have made a huge, huge assumption. The assumption is that Oxford students need our approval or “acceptance”. We, as Emory College students, are in no way in a position to judge Oxford students and decide whether or not we choose to “accept” them. They ARE a part of Emory… and that is a fact. Their existance is not based on Emory college students’ approval ratings of Oxford. All in all, I think there has been a bit of a problem in the past with Emory College students being critical/bitter towards Oxford students… but I sincerely hope this year’s incoming freshman class will not partake in such juvenile condescension.</p>
<p>I hate how some people call Oxford students “Oxtards”. This is very offensive and elitist in so many ways. As a Georgia resident, I think people need to realize that the SAT range posted is not only well above the U.S. average, and also beats both UGA (I don’t consider the people at UGA dumb, even though their course rigor is know to easier than the three other popular high-performing schools in Ga.They are pretty smart) and Mercer University (these students are definitely smart, and their course rigor is higher than UGA, perhaps noticeably less than Emory and Tech, but still tough for many fields). Besides those scores mean almost nothing once you are in college. I did well (About the same as you Alam, give or take 10 points) and had a pretty bad year (this one) due to some issues (family/ living situation here) I was dealing with, which made performing well far more difficult for me this year. And admittedly, I am not perfect and some classes (like my weakness, physics) were actually hard to me and I did not do well at all. When I tried to step up time devoted to that class, I let another I could have done well in slip. It was just a mess. My science GPA is shot this year :(. I am so glad I was never pre-med, because resilience doesn’t really matter with that. You must be close to perfect all of the time lol. Anyway, I am certain that most of my Oxford friends outperformed me. Some of my other friends in class of 2012 who came in with excellent admissions statistics (far better than mines) also struggled either freshmen year, sophomore year, or both. Then again, my job isn’t to measure my performance versus others unless a class has a bell-curve. There should be no bitterness, we should try our best to lift each other up. Even when I am struggling, I try my best to particularly help freshmen and those who need help with coursework (if I have taken a class and done well) and other academic-related things. As for my gutter experience this year. I am going to work my butt off to pull myself out of it beginning this summer, that way I can start off fall in a better mood, realizing that I am capable of performing well again. Less stress over summer=better grades for me :). I find it difficult to focus when I am stressed/tired all of the time. Stress doesn’t really pressure me to do better.</p>
<p>Also, as for Oxford being harder. I always propose that it’s possible. Schools that have the LAC model tend to be a bit tougher than research universities due to harsh grading (I’m pretty sure, Emory, like many research universities, definitely has serious inflation). </p>
<p>Yeah, but the Oxford condescension does not help contribute to the school pride that many students here desire so much.</p>
<p>First of all, for those of you who have yet to take a class at Emory, it’s important to realize that Emory just flat out is not a very hard school. We’ve had this discussion many times that maintaining a 3.5 gpa can be done easily with minimal studying. The professors are also pretty generous with grades these days. I actually thought high school was harder, because I was balancing more classes and my high school didn’t curve. Second, intro level classes are quite often harder than upper level ones. They cover more material, have more work, and the professors tend to be less generous because they don’t know if students are genuinely interested or just need to complete a GER. So I for one believe that Oxford is a harder school, although I have never personally taken a class there.</p>
<p>UNC, I don’t know if the basis for your point is your experience at Emory, but I think it’s changed since CNN came into existence. If so then I understand your concern but it’s unfair for you to comment on, for example, the “disappointing” quality of intro classes when you haven’t been in one for at least 30 years.</p>
<p>Oxford is not a backdoor. In fact, many of my friends that came from Oxford say that the classes are even harder at Oxford than at Emory.</p>
<p>Hey, alam1 you said <<personally agree=“” with=“” a=“” poster=“” above=“” that=“” oxford=“” college=“” is=“” gem=“” for=“” students=“” who,=“” whatever=“” reason,=“” did=“” not=“” do=“” amazing=“” in=“” highschool,=“” but=“” have=“” potential=“” to=“” succeed.=“”>></personally></p>
<p>That poster was me. I was trying to support Oxford, but like everyone here realized, I got some mixed/conflicting feelings when it comes to Emory vs Oxford.</p>
<p>As for that sentence by el duque <we’ve had=“” this=“” discussion=“” many=“” times=“” that=“” maintaining=“” a=“” 3.5=“” gpa=“” can=“” be=“” done=“” easily=“” with=“” minimal=“” studying.=“”> I don’t think that’s really true if Oxford is really harder than Emory. Search past threads and you’ll read that 3.5 is actually hard to maintain over there.</we’ve></p>
<p>El duque, I agree with you that high school was much harder for me than Emory. But just realize that that is not the case for everyone. With the almost infinite variability in high school rigor and the different model for college academics, there are some who find college much more difficult and others who are in the opposite boat. </p>
<p>I also think its impossible to compare Emory classes to Oxford classes. None of us at Emory have taken Oxford classes so we have no idea if any claims are true. And if entry-level classes are truly more difficult as has been claimed, then it would make sense that the students from Oxford believe their classes are more difficult (because they take upper-level courses here and entry-level courses at Oxford). Nobody that I know of has taken the same course at both schools so it really is difficult to impossible to compare.</p>
<p>if some of you elitists will just get off your high horses, you will see that if oxford college gets even anywhere close to emory college’s applications, oxford college will be just as selective in regards to average sat and gpa. even then, you are a god dam shallow person if you are judging a division of a university by the stats of its admits.</p>
<p>if duke’s engineering school had lower stats than duke’s arts & sciences schools, are you going to say that duke’s engineering students are less capable? its ridiculous how students have that kind of elitism.</p>
<p>Emory University’s students are all Emory’s scholars. To think any less of any major or any college in your same university is analogous to western part of US hating eastern part of US or vise versa.</p>
<p>if you are going to emory university, please represent us well by getting over your sense of arrogance. because if you think that you are smarter, think again because some 13 year old in india is probably smarter than you.</p>
<p>What I meant to say was that I have no problem buying into the argument that the classes Oxford continuees take at Emory are easier than the classes they took at Oxford. I agree with your point that it’s dumb to call either school altogether harder than the other. I also think Oxford students study more than Emory students. A lot of Emory students are content with going through college in cruise control and graduating with a 3.5; I almost never saw that attitude in an Oxford student. I guess the stereotype in a nutshell is that they’re overachievers. And just like Oxford’s influence on Emory, that trait has both positive and negative aspects. At the end of the day though, I liked Oxford students because they were a breath of fresh air from things like the ‘elitism’ of Emory students that some posters have sensed here. Not that I’m totally innocent of that myself, but I think being around well grounded people helps me stay humble.</p>
<p>^Yes, people at Oxford know they were given a great opportunity and took full advantage of it. I have to agree with you on that they are more humble and less elitist.</p>
<p>I don’t find keeping a 3.5 here easy with minimal studying. Maybe because I generally choose the most difficult courses and professors. Difficulty is very subjective. I know people that intentionally choose easy-grading professors that perhaps suck at lecturing, over harder professors that would be more effective at teaching important material. In other words, some are not trying to learn, they just want those As. Some will choose a class they know they are completely uninterested, rather than going through the motions of finding a likable class of similar difficulty, or a likable class that’s harder. Either way, I thought my high-school was tough because many courses put an intense (sometimes unnecessarily) work-load on us, but if you could do it well, it would balance out out mediocre exam scores. Not the case here, many classes have no workload or a heavy one that does not play a large part in your grade. For classes like physics (which I believe used to be much harder here, but is difficult for me either way), which is a serious weakness of mines, that makes a world of difference. That’s one of the few classes where I suffer from exam anxiety sometimes, and no matter how much I study (or if I study the way the prof. or learning specialist suggests), I fail to get decent results. Point is, I disagree that this is easy. Workload wise, yes, but I feel that professors often get much more creative with exams (for example, some science classes that put free response on the exams, manage to make some of the FR questions as ambiguous/open-ended as the multiple choice), which I like, except for the my weakpoint courses lol. Then again, I guess I am one of the only people with a weakness in any type of course here, so I am biased I suppose.</p>
<p>^How can they give ambiguous multiple choice questions? Do those professors love hearing about the whole class arguing over whether choice A or C was the right answer after every exam or do they just love to mess with students’ grades in general?</p>
<p>There is a thread on this site that tries to answer your question. It looks like Emory is about 46/120 in difficulty getting an A, according to some study from 1997. I take this as good news!</p>
<p>Rankings of Toughest Schools to get an “A” </p>
<hr>
<p>In 1997 UC Berkeley’s Boalt Hall School of Law
did a ranking of the toughest schools to get an “A”.</p>
<p>Are they still ranking the schools accordingly?</p>
<p>The L.A. Times ran an article 7/16/97 "Grading
the Grades: All A’s Are Not Created Equal "on
how the admissions dept. from UC Berkeley’s
Boalt Hall re-formulated the law school’s
applicant’s G.P.A. The formula ranked each college
according to how its students perform on the
standardized law board exam, the LSAT, and how
common a certain G.P.A. is at that school.</p>
<p>The following is UC Berkeley’s rankings of
the toughest schools to get an “A”</p>
<p>Swarthmore 89.5
Williams 89.0
Duke 88.5
Carleton 88.0
Colgate 88.0
J. Hopkins 87.5
Chicago 87.0
Dartmouth 87.0
Wesleyan 87.0
Cornell 86.5
Harvard 86.5
Middlebury 86.0
Princeton 86.0
Bates 85.5
MIT 85.5
Haverford 85.0
Pomona 85.0
Virginia 85.0
Amherst 84.5
Reed 84.5
Vanderbilt 84.5
Wm & Mary 84.5
Bowdoin 83.5
Tufts 83.5
Vassar 83.5
Bryn Mawr 83.0
Hamilton 83.0
Oberlin 83.0
Rice 83.0
U. Pennsylvania 83.0
Clrmt. McK. 82.5
Yale 82.5
Brandeis 82.0
Northwestern 82.0
Colby 81.5
Michigan 81.5
Notre Dame 81.5
Wash. U. 81.0
Barnard 80.5
Columbia 80.5
Stanford 80.5
Brown 80.0
Georgetown 80.0
Smith 80.0
Wellesley 80.0
Emory 79.5
U. North Carolina 79.5
Whitman C. 79.5
Rochester 79.0
UC Berkeley 78.5
UC San Diego 78.5
Illinois 78.0
SUNY Bing 78.0
Texas 78.0
Trinity U. 77.5
Boston College 77.0
UC S. Barbara 77.0
Wisconsin 77.0
Florida 76.5
U. Washington 76.5
Santa Clara 76.0
Geo. Wash. 75.5
UC Davis 75.5
UCLA 75.5
Colorado 75.0
Michigan State 75.0
Boston University 74.5
Cal Poly SLO 74.5
Massachusetts 74.0
Penn State 74.0
Iowa 73.5
Purdue 73.5
SMU 73.5
SUNY Albany 73.5
BYU 73.0
Minnesota 73.0
Ohio State 73.0
Oregon 73.0
UC Irvine 73.0
Indiana 72.5
NYU 72.0
SUNY Buff 72.0
SUNY Stony 72.0
Mills 71.5
American 71.0
Arizona 71.0
Loyola Mary. 71.0
Maryland 71.0
Fordham 70.5
Kansas 70.0
Syracuse 70.0
USC 70.0
Arizona St. 69.5
CS San Diego 69.5
Catholic U. 69.5
Oklahoma 69.5
Pacific 69.5
Hofstra 69.0
UC Riverside 68.5
Utah 68.5
CS Chico 68.5
Miami 68.0
New Mexico 68.0
San Diego 68.0
CS Northridge 67.0
Pepperdine 67.0
CS San Fran. 66.0
CS Sacramento 65.0
Hawaii 64.5
Denver 63.5
CS Fullerton 63.0
CS Hayward 63.0
CS Long Beach 63.0
CS San Jose 63.0
CS Fresno 62.5
St. Mary’s 61.5
CCNY 59.0
CS LA 58.5
Howard 57.5
San Francisco 57.5</p>
<p>Beretta, you are displaying a wonder of maturity.
First you put out a very blunt and borderline ignorant statement, “Do you think Oxford students deserve to say they go to Emory?” Which, by the way, is almost as bad as asking “Do you think African-Americans deserve to call themselves American”.
Wow. just wow. There is only one kind of students, Emory students.
The intolerance and supremacy of your posts are just off the charts.</p>
<p>^Then Emory has admitted the wrong guy.</p>
<p>Yeah, but I think that list is basically measuring inflation levels, and grading practices. Also, that’s a law school’s measurement. It would probably more than likely reflect grading practices in humanities and social sciences. Emory’s graduating GPA averages between like 3.2-3.3 (like most “Southern Ivies”). GT averages 3.0 and it’s all science and engineering. Aren’t we cutting it kind of close given all of the humanities and social science majors? We certainly have inflation, but I imagine it’s more prevalent in some departments than others. LACs normally do not have such issues. They work students hard and grade harshly. As for the other schools, often those students are already really good at standardized testing (Harvard, MIT, the top liberal arts schools, come on…). Just because we are decent when it comes to grading does not mean Emory is not that difficult. And yes Beretta, that is very common. And unless you have an easy teacher, the answer choices are normally like: A, B, C, A+B, A+C, B+C, all, and none. Often the questions are open-ended or worded in a funny manner. Sometimes even the answer choices are ambiguous. They normally do the tricky multiple choice on harder problems too. Like ones where some of the answers can qualify under certain rare conditions mentioned in lecture, but in reality that’s not what they are looking for, so you and others in the class have to argue for that question. Biology can get rough. It used to be harder though. I honestly think bio 141/142 professors should start going back toward hybrid multiple choice/free response questions. It give those that can get tricked by the multiple choice a chance to prove their knowledge and provides an oppurtunity for partial credit, which is needed since the tests in 141 are normally only 25-30 questions and the tests in 142 are like 30-45 questions a piece. Not a lot wiggle room there. Either way, I still did well in 141/142, but it wasn’t but so easy.</p>
<p>I need to work on my reading comprehension as Bernie is absolutely correct in stating the data is for law schools. I will delete the info if so desired. I cannot find an article about the average graduating GPA’s for the “top twenty universities”, but Emory had the 4th lowest GPA. I was in no way insinuating Emory is an “easy” school. I am a proud graduate of Emory College and felt medical school was much easier than college. I obtained an equivalent MCAT score of 38, graduated number 8 in my class in medical school while failing to obtain Phi Beta Kappa in college. Perhaps this was due to obtaining a BS in Chemistry. The sciences at Emory are quite challenging and this is based more upon test questions requiring much more than a simple regurgitation of information. An Emory science education demands and teaches you to think. This is no small bonus for a future physician as you will be confronting patient problems which require you to logically piece together information and arrive at a solution ie an Emory education made me a better clinician. You can certainly choose non-science electives which are much less challenging and many premeds choose this route, but Emory is by no means an easy school. You will have to study hard if you desire a good GPA.</p>