Hi all-
I’m a junior in high school and have been playing the violin for about 10 years now; I’m looking to to continue my passion for music throughout college. My interests lie in the music performance and science areas, however I think it would be too strenuous to do a double major in these two areas. I would most definitely want to play in school orchestras and chamber groups, but is there anything else I could do to be more involved in the music community without taking up a double major? What would it be like to do a double degree?
Any comments are appreciated!
Many thanks.
I know several people who have gone on to major in things other than music and play in the orchestra/band. Some youth orchestras also let people up to age 21 play in them, so check out some in the community where you end up studying in.
I also have heard that balancing your class schedule with orchestra in college if you are not majoring and you may have to take a semester off to get all of your requirements done.
As to what a double degree is like, I have no idea.
balancing your class schedule with orchestra in college if you are not majoring can be difficult.
Sorry for the typo.
a lot of music students continue to play music in college who aren’t majors, a lot of colleges have orchestra programs that they are pretty proud of, some even give an edge to music students. For example, the ivy league schools have strong music programs even though they don’t offer performance degrees and they look for musical kids. Schools that have performance degrees often offer a separate track for non majors, which may mean the performing groups are not of that high level for non majors, it all depends. Some schools will pay for lessons, at others they will have lessons available for an extra feed, depends on the school. As a non major doing music probably won’t be all that intensive, depends on what you choose to do, but it would involve a couple of orchestra rehearsals a week, a lesson if you take them, and maybe chamber if you choose to do it (and the school offers it).
Dual degrees on the other hand are pretty intense, despite the popular perception that somehow a performance degree is ‘easy’, it is easily as time consuming as a standard academic degree is, with performance you will be practicing a lot (on violin, you are talking many hours a day), plus ensemble practice, plus theory and ear training classes, plus other classes in music history and such, then you would have the load of the other degree. Most dual degree students find they need 5 years to finish (at Bard, where a dual degree is required of BM students, that is the standard), and it is pretty intense, a lot of those who go that path often end up choosing either the BM alone or the other degree alone IME. It isn’t impossible, but it is pretty intense.
One of the best things you can do is as you start to frame in your mind what schools you are thinking of, to contact them and ask them what they offer for non majors. Many of the elite universities and colleges have strong programs for non majors, as do many good schools in general, so you will probably find something that meets your needs;)
You can look at good sciency schools and see what they have for non-majors…
e.g. at Case Western you can be involved in the University Circle Orchestra as a non-major.
http://music.case.edu/ensembles/caseuniversity-circle-symphony-orchestra/
or
http://music.case.edu/ensembles/case-camerata-chamber-orchestra/
and various others http://music.case.edu/ensembles/
This essay may be helpful to you: http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html
There are double majors, doube degrees, major/minor and then many really do study something else (like science) and continue music. Investigate access to private lessons at the schools you look at, whether they cost extra, and also, alternatively, access to teachers in the community. Also find out if credit is offered for lessons, and for performance.
You can participate in extracurriculars (orchestra, chamber groups, solo work, working with composers or in theater etc.) and can also look into performance off campus.
This is not uncommon and I know musicians who did not major in music but went on the grad school in their instrument at great schools.
If you look at colleges that do have a music school or conservatory, they often do have a music program for a BA as opposed to a BM, in the college as opposed to the conservatory. At some schools, the presence of a conservatory or music school will mean fewer opportunities, or less rigorous opportunities, and at others it won’t make as much difference, so do your research.
If you consider Bard Conservatory, they actually require a double degree.
I agree with the previous posters. A school with a BA in music will likely give you good options to play in several groups. Listen to the orchestras and chamber groups in rehearsal or concerts. If you can visit, it helps to really get the ‘vibe’ of the music groups. We went to over a dozen colleges with S1 and S2 and it helped a lot. Five minutes of listening to the Vassar orchestra rehearsal, S1 was smiling and we knew Vassar was what he was looking for. Both S1 and S2 double majored in a science and music at Vassar so if you decide to do that, it certainly is possible. We were also impressed with the orchestras at Hamilton , Wesleyan, Skidmore and a few others - all BA Music schools. They are out there - just visit if possible or check out the concert recordings on the websites.
“What would it be like to do a double degree?”
If you were to choose a college with an open curriculum (e.g., Smith, Grinnell, Hamilton, Amherst, Brown), some of the common challenges involved in completing a double major would be reduced. The University of Rochester could also be good in this regard.
@merc81 - double degrees are different animals than double majors. Double majors where one is a BA in music are quite doable at many many schools. But the colleges you list do not offer BM degrees at all which is what one would get with a double degree. Nor does University of Rochester - but a double degree could be obtained through Eastman.
The OP appears to have used the terms “major” and “degree” interchangeably. Can it be clear from what has been expressed thus far how the distinction between these paths would relate to her goals?
Here are the rough distinctions:
1)Dual major: Usually a dual major indicates getting two of the same degree, like 2 BA’s (for example, a BA in music and a BA in Chemistry) a dual major. In this case the person would need to take the core courses most colleges have, plus they need to take the requisite courses for both majors,plus the majors track. It involves a lot of scrambling if the pre requisites for example are extensive. With a BA, the degrees are generally within the same school within the university, music with a BA is usually more like a liberal arts degree.
2)Dual Degree: With music, this usually involves a BM degree in performance and a BA or BS in something else. This is more difficult, because besides the core courses, the pre reqs for the BA degree, you also have the performance degree (BM). Compared to a BA, it generally has a lot more required courses, you have to take a lot more music theory, ear training, music history, and often may have more ensemble training. What makes it even more difficult is that the school of music often operates as a separate entity within the university, so it can make it more difficult to coordinate the two degree programs (depends on the school, no universal rule here). A BM takes a lot of time, and can conflict with another degree, especially if for example you were doing a science with labs and recitals and the lectures, or an engineering degree with all its reqs. At a lot of schools, doing a dual degree can be a 5 year program, Bard by its design is 5 years as an example.
3)Minor: You could get a BA degree in something, a minor in music. Minor has a lot less courses, but still may allow lessons, ensembles and so forth.
4)Major in non music, play music. A lot of top schools, especially those that don’t offer performance degrees, have strong music nonetheless, for example the Ivy schools put emphasis on this, so someone could get a BA/BS, and have access to lessons, ensembles, orchestras, some of the schools as far as I know pay for the lessons as part of the tuition. Kid could get high level training, then apply for an MM…and because the kids who go into these programs tend to be high level (put it this way, about half the kids at the top pre college programs are heading for the elite schools, or want to, and those schools welcome them, recruit them, whatever you want to call it, hence the high level).
5)Exchange/Joint programs. There are a number of these (NEC/Harvard, NEC/Tufts, Juilliard/Columbia) that vary in how they work. Julliard and Columbia have an exchange program, where Columbia students can take lessons at Juilliard, I believe do chamber, and have the option of getting into the exchange program, which would allow them to pursue an MM after finishing their degree at Columbia (basically, in a sense it is auditioning for the MM early, rather than finish the Columbia degree and then apply for the MM). Other programs follow this model, where you get a BA/BS from one program then get your MM from the other, there are others out there that may be different. With the exchange, it is getting lessons from top not teachers, and if you get into te joint program, knowing the MM program awaits you. The downside is these programs are small and hard to get into, the program at NEC takes very few kids each year, and coordinating can be difficult if it is truly a joint program (ie going to both schools at once, I think NEC/Tufts is like that).
There are a lot of options, they all have plusses and minuses. The one comment I would have is that personally I would avoid the idea of a dual degree/dual major kind of thing as a ‘safety’, especially if the other degree is going to be liberal arts. If the kid genuinely loves science or math or french or history or whatever, and wants that second degree/major, then go for it. If it is because the parent feels a BM degree is ‘worthless’, that would be unneeded stress IMO, a BM degree would be just as valuable as many of those degrees, if not al of them (a bachelors in chemistry or physics, or in math, is not necessarily a big deal when applying for jobs, jobs in those fields usually require advanced degrees, so it may not have much more weight then a BM or a liberal arts degree).
“a bachelor’s in chemistry, or physics, or in math, is not necessarily a big deal when applying for jobs” (#10)
My experience here is different, however. I have definitely known companies that only consider hiring BA or BS graduates who’ve acquired the relevant major for the position.
@merc81:
It depends on the position and what is considered the relevant major for the position. Sure, if a job requires a BS in math or physics or chemistry, then of course it would be important. Likewise, an engineering position would require a bs in engineering for that field. However, with chemistry and math, and especially physics, with a bachelors degree there are limited jobs in that will accept a bachelors, most positions in those fields would require an advanced degree these days. A bachelor’s in chemistry would likely get you a position as a lab person, not working as a chemist, a bachelor’s in math might get you in the door at let’s say an insurance company, though from what I have been led to believe even actuaries are coming in with advanced degrees, and with physics especially, getting work in that field would require advanced degrees.
If someone is targeting something that specifically requires a degree , like an engineering job, then having that degree is important, having a degree in cs or MIS for a programming job would be near a requirement (though with those jobs, there are a lot of people who get skills training in programming, and get hired).It all depends on the field, but a STEM UG degree, unless the person was planning to go on with an advanced degree, don’t have the range they once did, because of the advanced degree thing. That doesn’t mean that an UG music major shouldn’t get a BS in Chemistry or physics or math if they intend to make that a career, just that that bachelor’s degree in those fields is very limiting in terms of jobs that will hire with that degree, and in the broader job market likely won’t have any more pull than a BM for jobs not requiring that specific degree. Interesting, a lot of science and math UG majors end up in IT, because as part of those disciplines computer skills are now required, so many of them end up as programmers and such. Again, if a kid has in mind that they would want to go on for an advanced degree studying a STEM discipline as a dual degree or major would not be a bad idea, but as a job creator with a bachelor’s it isn’t what people think.
Also note there is a difference between a BA and a BS. It can be significant depending on your career path. A BS is going to require more courses, but can also open more doors for you, especially if you eventually go the grad school route. In Chemistry, it can also be important for the degree to be accredited by ACS (American Chemical Society). A BA degree can be a better fit for someone double majoring.
Read this essay on double degrees etc. http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html
Thank you all! Your responses really helped me get a feel for what I envision myself doing
I just want to start off by saying that I have a friend (she’s a third year student while I’m a first year student,) who is a physics major and a music major. She plays in an orchestra at my university and so it is possible if it’s something you really want to do, although it definitely isn’t easy and it’s something you should do research into before deciding.
However most colleges will have ways for you to be involved with music if you aren’t a music major. For instance, I am in a choir at my school and I’m highly involved in that. I also know of non music majors who play in an orchestra on my campus. At the beginning of the year I went on my school’s website and it had all the ways to be involved with different music programs there. You could look up websites of school’s you’re interested in and you can also ask during college tours.