<p>I was looking at the admission requirements for some of the England universities that I was interested in, and I didn't understand them at all! Many of the websites did not have any information in regards to international students, and then others had all sorts of requirements attaining to English standardized test scoring and other things that I am guessing pertain to their GPA and American's equivalent of the SAT? Yea...basically I'm completely lost.
Can someone help me out? I was looking at Oxford in particular... I'm interested in studying Philosophy and Law to become a lawyer...and I know that is a very reputable school..but I am open to suggestions!</p>
<p>So on the law page of Oxford university you were unable to see the link at the top of the page to “see details of international qualifications”? Honestly you need to do better than that. The US requirements are listed in detail.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can do law and philosophy at Oxford. You can only choose from the courses listed (and it is very hard to change once admitted). Law is an undergraduate course but it doesn’t qualify you to practice law in the US.</p>
<p>My S in considering studying law at a UK uni rather than getting a BA degree in a US college. He plans to apply to a US law school after completing his degree in the UK.
Schools he’s currently considering: UCL, LSE, Durham and perhaps Oxford.</p>
<p>Oxford’s website does indeed have a separate section for International Students, you will find it if you look more carefully.</p>
<p>It might be a new experience for you to be a “foreigner”. As a foreigner you will find people giving information that has nothing to do with you, and not realizing it is useless until you speak up and say “does this apply to foreign students?” As a foreigner, (and I have lived as a foreigner in the UK) you are the one who is “weird”, the different way that the Brits do things they consider “normal”.</p>
<p>Here we go . . .</p>
<p>Most students in British universities are British. The British educational system is completely different from the American one. British students applying to colleges and unis take a group of tests called “A-levels”, and the results on these “A-levels” determine which college they go to, or if they go to college at all.</p>
<p>So when UK colleges and unis get foreign applicants, they say “Okay, what is this country’s nearest equivalent to A-levels?” For the United States, the answer is either AP tests or SAT Subject tests.</p>
<p>To apply to Oxford, you will need 3 AP tests with scores of “5”, or 3 SAT Subject tests with scores of “700” or more. To actually get in, you very likely will need more than that. Applicants won’t have finished their exams (whether A-levels or a foreign equivalent) by the time they start applying, so there is process where they have someone at their school give predicted grades. Any admission decision will usually be conditional on actually getting those predicted test results!!!</p>
<p>Cupcake is right. You take a “course” at Oxford, which is very roughly what we in the USA call a “major”. And you spend the whole time only studying that particular subject (so in this way it is unlike a “major”). So you can’t just combine two courses, like Law and Philosophy. There are some courses which they have created which combine subjects, one of the best known of these is PPE–Politics, Philosophy, and Economics.</p>
<p>There is no “GPA” in the UK educational system, instead they have these nationwide tests like A-levels. So Oxford will not be interested in your GPA, instead they want to see your AP tests or SAT subject tests.</p>
<p>“Law is an undergraduate course but it doesn’t qualify you to practice law in the US.”</p>
<p>It doesn’t even directly qualify you to practice law in the UK; additional postgrad study is required (and one can pursue that having done an unrelated degree). However, the OP is unlikely to be eligible for the visa to work as a lawyer in the UK (unless he/she is a dual citizen of an EU country), so they should look at it as they would a US degree before applying for a US law school (as muf123’s son is sensibly doing). And I’m sure you understand that you would be studying British law rather than US law.</p>
<p>There are two kinds of lawyers in the UK: solicitors and barristers. For the paths to each career for anyone who does have the legal right to work, see:</p>
<p>[Becoming</a> a solicitor - The Law Society](<a href=“http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/careers/becoming-a-solicitor/]Becoming”>Becoming a solicitor | The Law Society)</p>
<p>[Becoming</a> a Barrister](<a href=“http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/becoming-a-barrister/]Becoming”>http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/becoming-a-barrister/)</p>
<p>General info on what Oxford in particular wants to see in incoming law students, and requirements for US students:</p>
<p>[Oxford</a> Law :: Qualitative admissions criteria](<a href=“http://www.law.ox.ac.uk/undergraduate/criteria.php]Oxford”>http://www.law.ox.ac.uk/undergraduate/criteria.php)</p>
<p>[International</a> Qualifications - University of Oxford](<a href=“http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/international_applicants/international_qualifications/index.html]International”>International qualifications | University of Oxford)</p>
<p>I hope these are helpful.</p>
<p>Muf123, if your son is applying for 2014 entry, the last LNAT test date for Oxford is 5 October and application deadline is 15 October. For other LNAT schools the last test date is 20 January.</p>
<p>Thank you collegemom. S is a class of 2015 US citizen attending an IB boarding school in Europe. He is aware of the LNATs and the Oxford application process. S is also aware that a course in law does not qualify him to practice law in the US. He is interested in studying law in the UK vs. undergrad general liberal arts (similar to PPE course) in the US before applying to a US law school. Even though S has excellent grades and SAT scores, Oxford is a reach and he is realistic to include target UK unis on his list.</p>
<p>Muf123, Interesting that you pair PPE with US general liberal arts- I think perhaps that is why PPE is the course that most Americans apply to. Even for somebody who <em>reallly</em> likes law though, 6 years of classroom study seems like a long time, with what is bound to be a lot of overlap. </p>
<p>FYI, at Oxford the law degree is a BA, though it is considered the equivalent of an LLB. </p>
<p>Also, if Oxford is a reach so is LSE (I know several students whose offers were actually tougher from LSE than from Oxford). Without knowing how familiar your son is with each school, I would suggest visits if at all possible – you have two (very big) city universities and two collegiate universities listed, a pretty stark contrast!</p>
<p>Has he considered doing just the UK law degree, then doing the additional work to be called to the bar in the US (New York state is one of the best for this- they have a lot of experience with international qualifications)? Even in the US there is a re-evaluation of the merit of the third year of law school (though it will be a long while before the rule changes), so for your son it is a lot of classroom time (and expense) to do both without necessarily a lot of additional benefit. </p>
<p>He might be as well prepared (and have more fun…) by taking something such as History (or a joint honours, such as History + Politics) (or IR at unis that offer it) in the UK, then going to the US for law school, or staying in the UK and doing a law conversion course. If he doesn’t have residency issues he could finish qualifying in the UK then go get called to the NY bar.</p>
<p>Students in the US have to study in a 4 year college earning a BA or BS degree. In order to become a lawyer, one has to do an additional 3 years of law school and pass the bar.
I agree, it’s a lot of time in the classroom.</p>
<p>Muf123, I know that US students have to do 7 years of school (uni+law). My point was that your son would be doing 6 years in the classroom of just 1 subject, with considerable overlap of material. In the UK law students do 3 years of classroom, and then a combination of practice and qualifying exam. I didn’t mean to be critical, just suggesting that there might be other ways of looking at it that would achieve the same ends more efficiently. </p>
<p>Also, with a law degree from one of the top 3 law schools in the world, why would you want to do another law degree, rather than just get credentialed in the US (not a cake walk, but not three more years in school either)?</p>
<p>But, apologies again- you weren’t looking for feedback / unsolicited advice- sorry :-)</p>
<p>S has been advised by family members in US law firms to go the route of US law school after UK even though he can sit for the bar in NY and Calf right out of UK law.
Collegemom, I’m happy to read your point of view. These topics have been debated in our home as well.
S prefers law rather than PPE or history although that may change since he has a year before he has to make it official.
LSE and Oxford are considered reaches until the final scores are tallied. So far S is on track. He scored well on a practice LNAT at Oxford summer law school this year.</p>
<p>Remember that you do NOT have to study Law as an undergraduate in order to go to law school and become a lawyer in the United States.</p>
<p>Lawyers in the United States have undergraduate degrees in all sorts of strange subjects. I am a lawyer with an undergraduate degree in Theatre.</p>
<p>If your goal is to be a lawyer in the United States, I would recommend getting a Bachelor’s degree in some subject that you enjoy, a hobby subject. A fun subject. Because law school isn’t much fun.</p>
<p>On the first day of law school, they assume you know nothing about the law–in fact they have rather a low opinion of people who saunter in with an attitude of “I already know all about this”. There is no reason to subject yourself to the study of law for three or four years as an undergraduate, and then go off to law school for another three years.</p>