<p>My D is very practical and works too much IMO/ now are finals and she went to work/. My fear that she will put money as major decision factor disregarding everything else. I would like her to choose sensibly but how one could put value or figure out which school is worth what? She applied to state schools but not interested in big classes. She really likes small classes, discussion style and lots of attention. As a matter of fact after visiting one private school she made a comment that class was huge/ 35 kids/ and she was mistaken for a student by the students which mean that they did not know each other well. It was definite turn off for my D.
She also received nice scholarships from several private schools but it is still somewhat above state price. I am so wishing this decision stage was over!</p>
<p>If we can't put a value on "it", why do we pay so much more for some schools over others?</p>
<p>It would seem to me that with the more expensive option, the "value" should be clear and understandable. Unless it is psychological. :)</p>
<p>I went through a very similar situation with my parents when I was making my college decision. They agreed to pay the full tuition for our local state u, although i knew the SUNY system was not my calling. I was accepted into several large, private schools that were extremely expensive even with large scholarships (about 30k). So ultimately I chose an out-of-state public U. </p>
<p>Therefore, I am in debt, although not nearly as much as if I had attended the private schools. And I must say, I really resented my parents for a little bit when they told me that they would only pay the equivalent of the local state u, as I knew they could probably afford the full deal. It's rather hard to argue with them on that case though, because they both came from poor backgrounds and put themselves through college without any help from their parents (yikes). So ideologically, that couldn't be changed.</p>
<p>However, having a financial stake in my own education, although I am taking on debt, gives it a lot more meaning to me. I think twice (three times) before blowing off a class or skipping out on studying. I think it is valuable as a student to have an idea of just how much everything costs.</p>
<p>This must be a pretty common scenario...we lived thru it last year, too...our "twist" is this: from my S's infancy, I contributed regularly to a college fund, and he knew/knows my most heartfelt wish is to give him his education...I've always said, "I want you to go the best school you qualify for and want to attend, w/out having to worry about money." By the time he graduated HS last summer, the college fund was big enough to accommodate any school he chose (his choices included Cornell ($43K/year), Northwestern ($43K/year), Georgetown ($43K/year) and U VA (Echols and College Honors--with my fully paid prepaid tuition contract, $7K/year for room-and-board).</p>
<p>We talked long and hard about money. It was obvious from the get-go that the quality of education at U VA (particularly as an Echols and College Scholar) was within spittin' distance of the quality of education at the three privates. I also told him, honestly, that I absolutely will pay for his grad school (could be law school), if I could afford it at the time...but that he should remember that it took me 18 years to save up enough to pay for four years at Cornell/Northwestern/G'town...there was absolutely no guarantee I'd be able to save enough during his four years of undergrad to pay for law school (or other grad school). To the contrary, the high likelihood is I won't be able to save that kind of money that quickly. </p>
<p>His GC also pointed out that undergrad isn't as key to future career as grad school/professional school--she suggested he consider U VA for undergrad, and then use his college fund to finance law school (or whatever grad school he chose)...</p>
<p>I told S if chose U VA, the rest of the college money was essentially his (not that he'd get a check, but that options like study abroad, a car, extra courses, enrichment opportunities, etc.) would become finances-considerations-free options--</p>
<p>He really agonized. First, he categorically rejected the notion that the college fund was "his" money...in his mind, he'd accept, gratefully, my "gift" of tuition/room-and-board...but he wasn't going to take "my money" for a car or for a trip abroad or to buy a house. That felt very wrong to him. He felt very passionately about it. In fact, he asked me to withdraw the offer; said it felt to him like I was trying to "bribe him" (even tho he says he knew I wasn't)...</p>
<p>Ultimately, he chose Cornell. He agrees he'd have been happy at U VA...U VA is a terrific place. But after one semester of college, w/friends at U VA and w/both of us knowing lots of people there (and me having spent a weekend there w/another student there), I can honestly say Cornell is "it" for my S. It's so worth every penny of those monster checks. </p>
<p>I won't ask S to articulate why--I'm not sure I can! And certainly he'd succeed and be happy at U VA were the money to disappear on the altar of any of life's unantipated financial disasters. BUt it's SO obvious (to me even more than to him) that Cornell is where he "should" be. </p>
<p>We'll deal with financing post-undergrad education when we get there. I'll help all I can and I don't know at this stage what "what I can" will mean. In the meantime, I couldn't be more content with the decision he/we made. Yes, the difference between the $30K or so 4 years at U VA would have cost (ignoring the pepaid contract payments I've already made over the last 10 years) and the $170K or so Cornell will have cost by the time four years is over is very real money. But it's money earmarked for college. There's nothing else I'd rather spend it on. And I can't begin to describe the good feelings I get by knowing I've managed to find a way to "give him Cornell."</p>
<p>I know our situation isn't everyone's. It's probably not even most people's. BUt it works for us. We both thought it through very carefully and made an eyes-wide-open choice to spend the $170K on a Cornell undergrad degree. And I'm totally content with the decision.</p>
<p>It seems to me you speak for a lot of people, overanxiousmother. And, in your case, it seems your son was very aware of and appreciative of the financial considerations. The OP might well make the same decision you did. I think he is searching for the right way to involve his D in the same type of dialogue and decision-making process as you were able to have with your S.</p>
<p>Not everyone can make the choice you did. We, also, are fortunate to be in this position. In the cases of those of us who can pay for the high-cost alternative, I am a big fan of the Pay It Forward approach. We have told our S that this is what we hope he will do. By saving and planning, we are able to allow him a debt-free higher education. No need to pay us back. Pay it forward to the next generation.</p>
<p>These truly are such nice stories...Kids going off to the great school of their choice, parents planning well and sacrificing here and there.</p>
<p>But I hope parents (and kids) reading this will realize that CC is a microcosm of the college world.</p>
<p>The reality of the world is that most parents aren't able (or, perhaps, willing) to tell their kids - Go ahead and choose between that $40,000/year school and the $15,000/year school. Most are setting limits and they have no choice but to live within them. And many have truly talented, self-directed kids who will do great things in their lives.</p>
<p>What I'm trying to say is that if someone reading this feels they are less of a parent if they have to present their kids with some serious financial limits, I say -- don't feel bad!!! MOST of the world is in your camp. </p>
<p>No parent wants to get to that second semester of sophomore year and have to tell their kid - we just don't have the money for this $20,000 check. I can't imagine how bad that would be!</p>
<p>And it's OK for our kids to struggle a bit. If that is working during school, taking out loans, working before or during grad school or teaching during grad school, or forfeiting that spring trip to Cancun; it makes them a stronger, more independent person.</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>jmmom and nvdad: I think jmmom made the point succinctly that I was trying to make (and used way too many words)...S was involved in the money aspect of the decision from the beginning--our first conversation on the subject of the cost of college occurred when he was 7 and we were walking to the school bus...I was asking him if he liked my new (and very first ever real gold) necklace. His response was to worry that if I spent money on gold necklaces, I might not be able to afford to pay for his college--and that I needed to remember that he would be going to Harvard...followed instantly by, "but you shouldn't have to pay for my college. I'll pay for it." This from a seven-year-old...(my response was, "if you get into Harvard, I'll find a way to pay for it.")</p>
<p>Anyway, nvdad and others dealing with this question: talk to your kid(s)...be honest. Tell them how much there is, what won't happen if the money is spent on college, what YOU want from/for them...be clear about what you expect from them, too...at least that kind of communication worked for S and me...he knows I saved for his college but also am saving for retirement. He knows what I haven't bought/acquired because of the college fund, but also what I have bought/acquired and that explains why the college fund is big enough for four years, but not 7 (or more) of school w/out regard to cost...he knows there are two of us w/a claim to that money and he knows I don't "have to" spend it on his college, but that I deeply strongly want to...</p>
<p>OK...enough words from me...I'm interested in other folks' "takes" on this issue/question too...it's definitely someone else's turn!</p>
<p>We have three very bright boys but cannot afford to send them away to college unless they receive substantial financial aid. They are aware of our financial situation. We had a frank discussion when S was a freshman.....we can afford to contribute X amount toward college; we will not take out loans but we will help him pay off his school loans once we get all three through college. </p>
<p>My S realizes the importance of having as little debt as possible and he is pretty easy going (i.e. he doesn't have his heart set on a particular college). Fortunately, from what I've learned on CC, he is probably a good candidate for need and (hopefully) merit based financial aid. Come April, financial aid packages will have a lot to do with which college he selects.</p>
<p>S#2 just received his PSAT score and if he gets a similar score as a junior, will qualify for National Merit Semi-Finalist. He's already told me to start looking for colleges that offer full tuition scholarships to NMF finalists. </p>
<p>So, in a sense, I'm glad they understand the financial situation (living on a farm, it is hard not to). I don't want them to worry about it, but at the same time, I didn't want them to set their hearts on a particular college only to have as tell them we can't afford to send them there.</p>
<p>For a higher ranked public and no financial aid, the answer is clear - go to the public. You could offer her half of the saved tuition for a house down payment, graduate school, or some other discussed use for the money.</p>
<p>We have had the same discussion with our son. We, too, would not qualify for need aid, but a pricey college at 42K a year (tuition and r&b) would take a big chunk of after tax income (which we CANNOT afford -- plus we are saving for OUR retirement AND we have another child who will be following in two years). We think kids should never EXPECT that a huge chunk of their parent's income should be spent on their college education -- ESPECIALLY if there is a lower cost alternative -- EVEN if the alternative is not perfectly equal. Frankly, I am shocked when I learn of kids turning down "free rides" and other large merit scholarships from good colleges and forcing their parents to pay full price for ivies, etc. Such self-centeredness!</p>
<p>THERE ARE FEW (if any) majors that require a person to attend an expensive private college in order to be successful. Many of my hubbie's colleagues make less money than he does and they went to Ivies and my hubbie's degrees are from Purdue and Iowa (both public).</p>
<p>Overanxious: Did you do this for all your kids or do you just have the one son? There is no way I could have saved 200K for each of my kids' college educations.</p>
<p>Students (kids) often "think" that their parents can afford so much more than their parents actually can. Many kids know how much their parents earn and "it sounds like soooooo much" to them. My kids are always saying such things as, "But dad earns more than most people....(whine)....so why can't you pay for........(whine)." But kids forget that parents are paying for cars, cell phones, clothes, mortgages, food, utilities, cable TV, allowances, insurance, orthodontists, income taxes, property taxes, (and in our case, high school tuition), etc. Kids forget how much these things adds up. It is easy for them to think that parents can easily afford $10- 20 - 30 - 40 thousand per year for their college education (often forgetting that there are other kids in the family, too!) Besides, no one wants to pay an extra $15 K a year if there is an in-state cheaper alternative. SO WHAT if it isn't the child's first choice or in a "better or more attractive atmosphere. DO THESE KIDS have ANY idea how many parents go to work EVERYDAY in settings that aren't usually "attrative" or "first choice"??? WHY should kids get such "attractive and fun" settings when the parents (the payers) are relegated to dreary offices, etc??????</p>
<p>
Uhhhh...what are you talking about? LOL. Kids forcing parents to pay for Ivy League colleges? Who are these kids you speak of ? The Menendez brothers? I have never seen a parent's post say "Help! My kid is forcing me to pay for Columbia , please call a cop!" </p>
<p>While I also disagree with parents damaging their futures beyond repair for a HYPSDMC-AWS degree, I don't believe that happens all that often. I am willing to pony up everything I can muster without risking my family's livelihood or my eventual ability to retire - although my retirement most certainly will be delayed if she chooses a school at my upper end range. I have told her this range since her sophomore year and we have planned our work and worked our plan with this range in mind. So far everything is right on schedule. ;)</p>
<p>Well, I hold degrees from Williams, Oxford, and UChicago, and long ago got over my amazement by how little difference they have actually made in my life. The degrees that is - I received a terrific education each step of the way, and cherish the memories. But I suspect that a heckuva lot more "prestige" (and I've seen precious little of it) came from getting in than from graduating. </p>
<p>When I interview folks we are looking to hire, the "degree" part rarely takes more than 90 seconds (and then only if the other interviewer went to the same school - usually one of the two state universities), and then it's all down to "what can you do for me?"</p>
<p>Fortunately or unfortunately, we were never faced with the choices posed here. Our d., who turned down W. for educational rather than financial reasons, has a tuition bill that is well less than half what the state school would have cost. She knew from day one that an acceptance without the requisite aid was tantamount to a rejection, and together we were prepared for other alternatives.</p>
<p>mini, at my house it is beginning to look a lot like D's merit aid schools are all going to come in within a range of $5,000 a year (even though bottom to top the range started out $27,000). Some will cost slightly less than her in-state safety even with their largest freshman scholarship given to non-NMSF kids. D has been VERY fortunate and has chosen wisely. It appears that all the need only schools (assuming she gains admission to one) will come in at a price point @ $5-10k higher than the highest merit, only considering the grants in aid. </p>
<p>Would I (try to) pay (or borrow) an extra $60K for an admittedly "better thought of" school? Nope. Not without a darn good reason. We'll just have to see how the hand plays out. </p>
<p>I hope ultimately that our D's decision will be as clearcut and successful as your D's was. School you love at half the price of a school you like. Hmmmm. Let me think about that.</p>
<p>jlauer95: Only have the one S...and I so agree that saving to pay for any college, regardless of price, is a whole different issue if you're saving for one kid as compared to multiple kids! It was not easy to save the money for one...I agree it would have been if not impossible, then profoundly more difficult, had there been two or more. Would I have halved my spending on "me" (us/family) to accumulate two kids' (or more) worth of college fund? I don't know. I dIdn't have that choice (would have loved more than one kid, but was blessed with just the one)...and I also concede that fortune has smiled on me/us...yes, I work hard and prepared hard to be able to work hard to earn enough to do this saving, but still was the beneficiary of lots of good luck. </p>
<p>I also agree parents have no "obligation" to fund any college much less an expensive one. I believe parents get to choose what they want to do, and of course there are limits on what each of us can do--then parents have an obligation to make sure their kid(s) know what the situation is--how much they can afford/are willing to contribute, what factors could change that decision, what the kid(s) need(s) to do to "qualify" for a parent's gift of college tuition/room-and-board. I also think loans are just fine, and that it's equally just fine to decide to avoid them to the greatest extent possible. Bottom line: this is a very individual (and unique to each individual) decision. THe key is "no surprises." Make sure everyone involved (kids & parents) know what your decision is, and what the factors are that got you there.</p>
<p>Most of us are on this forum because we support and encourage our kids to get the best possible college education. At some point we face financial realities. For many of us, this does not happen until we complete the FAFSA. We then learn that what we believe to be our need is much different than the need defined by the government or the colleges. As the acceptances and financial offers arrive, we will see more and more threads asking the same question: are the costs worth it? There is not a general answer to that question. The colleges we discuss are different and everyone's financial situation is different. </p>
<p>My W, D, and I decided that a very substantial financial burden is worth it. This is because my D was accepted by her dream, super reach school and that college has a special program not available elsewhere. In addition the quality of the educational offerings are clearly much, much better than the financially more reasonable choices. Will the reputation of the elite school be worth it financially? Probably not. It might help open some doors, including graduate school admissions, but those small advantages are probably not in proportion to the tremendous costs. The advantages are all in the quality of the education and it can take a lot of faith in the value of education to decide to foot the bill.</p>
<p>I get somewhat annoyed when I read threads about loving thy safety or not making a major effort to gain acceptance at the Ivies and other top reach schools. Those schools are the ones that make the financial sacrifice worth the efforts. I can't imagine spending $100k or more extra to sent a kid to a private school that had a better "fit" but was academically not much or any better than the public universities.</p>
<p>jlauer--nobody "forced" us to pay for our kids' educations. We consider it a privilege. Since we never look at it as an "investment" in monetary terms, we really don't care how much they make or what kind of jobs they have--it was never about that. My D graduated from a top LAC, and is now a salesclerk at Barnes and Nobles. Except for the no health benefits part, :eek: , it's fine. She had a tremendous experience at her school, among students who took thinking and learning as seriously as she did, with at the same time the same sense of fun. We know the difference, because she started at a cheap Merit Money school, where thinking and learning were a necessary evil to get a "good" job, and "fun" was how wasted can we get this weekend. Transfering was the best decision she ever made, and worth the money.</p>
<p>Our perspective was that, yes, the school she transfered to, and the one her brother is at now, do cost an awful lot. But we have always lived way below our means. Beyond taxes, everything on your list of expenses doesn't have to cost any more than it would for a person with a much smaller income. We live in the cheapest house in a lower middle class neighborhood, drive old cars, passed up on paying hs tuition even though our local school system would not seem adequate to a lot of people, decided S didn't really need braces, skipped summer programs, etc. </p>
<p>It seems to me that anyone with an income high enough to not qualify for aid has more income than someone who does qualify for aid, right? So if they live at the same level, they'd have more money to put toward school, if they wanted to. Obviously, not everybody's choice, but it's worked for us. CAn't figure out where I'd put the money, otherwise. I'm not saying I expect everyone to make the same choices we have (we're a little strange) only that they are available choices.</p>
<p>Garland,</p>
<p>You remind me of friends of mine. They do well, but have always lived very simply. They had to tell their kids that despite their lifestyle, they do have money saved and it is OK for them to apply to top schools. One just graduated from an Ivy and the other is attending a top LAC.</p>
<p>Thanks Audio--and now that my H is no longer in medicine, but a newly minted high school bio teacher looking for a job, it's a good thing we never got used to the high life, :).</p>