For me, addressing the OP’s factors A-E it has turned out to be a multi-year process to model what an intensive research and planning process actually looks like for my D. From my own academic experience, I knew that it was important to have planned out a tentative curriculum for all four years before making the decision to accept an offer of admission. For most schools, the data is out there on their site to construct such a plan for any prospective course of study offered–taking into account things like the historical frequency with which certain gateway and advanced courses had been offered and the sequencing issues inherent in her planned course of study. Was the exercise worth it? Yes, absolutely, as my D. is finally learning what the value of planning is, as she has witnessed first-hand how expensive missteps have been avoided. (The planning process didn’t stop with admission.) But recognizing the need for and having the motivation to do this kind of intensive planning was not something that my D. had been exposed to in high school.
We looked at all of these, more carefully after offers were in hand and kids were making final decisions.
Like many CC parents, yes, we looked at all of these. But:
A. Course requirements for intended majors. - there was no intended major for D, for S there was and we looked at it.
B. Entry to major requirements for intended majors. - NA for any of the schools they considered.
C. Offered upper level courses and frequency of offering in intended majors. - glanced at this but without a major, less useful
D. General education requirements. - Definitely, for both kids.
E. Class size and capacity in courses of interest as listed in class schedules. - not really though this was a tour guide question - “how hard is it to get into the sections you want, what happens if you can’t”
Probably an outlier here, but our S used a very thorough method that added and expanded to to @ucbalumnus list. He was very opinionated as to what (exactly) he wanted to major in, and in a way, that actually made things easier.
Using a modified version of A-C, he was able to refine his list of schools to apply to. First, he added a track/specialization requirement to the major. It was not enough that the school offed his desired major (CS), it also had to offer a specialization/track in artificial intelligence. Each school he applied to had to have a guaranteed entry into the major upon admission. Each school had to have open course availability with an easy path to taking upper level and some graduate level classes (ease of petition acceptance).
Once he had acceptances in-hand he turned to D & E and other concerns. He accomplished this by actually mapping out a draft 4 year plan. During that process he was exposed to the wonderful world of gen-ed requirements, core engineering requirements, CS core requirements, and his track requirements. This was the time that he also investigated class sizes, Profs, major-advisors, and lab opportunities.
In the end, for each of his top 3 admissions, he could discuss his plan in detail, had opinions on who his “dream” adviser would be, knew who the rock-star profs were (and what classes they taught), and which lab he would like to join in on.
And, so far, so good.
I looked at all for all 3 kids intended major, Mom’s choice of major (based on things that came easiest to them) and majors close to their intended.
I’m a bit crazy ?
All but C and we added an F.
C - we were looking at pretty small schools, and since I work at one, I know all it takes is a sabbatical, a last minute retirement decision, or faculty attrition and that schedule is thrown out of whack. Good thing about small schools, they practically bend over backwards to make sure you get what you need.
The additional F: How/if DE/AP credit will be accepted and applied.
I will say that regardless of all the planning and questions, there are still surprises.
My dd had said she didn’t want to co-op, traditional summer internships for her only. Guess who is doing a co-op. Had that been on the radar, first off, there would have been other schools on the list, but secondly, we would have done more HW on how co-op impacts course sequencing.
DD had enough credits to graduate early but because of course sequencing challenges due to her co-op, she needs to stay on campus for 8 semesters. That has the trickle down effect of getting to add a minor (also not on the radar when looking at schools) and an additional certification (definitely not on the radar in HS).
It worked out perfectly for her but I think it was more luck than planning! Would be nice for parents to have a crystal ball to be able to predict all the twists and turns but it is good to look at a school’s flexibility.
F. What else does the college offer that you think you might be interested in for if/when you change your major?
A. Not really for D, and most of the schools had somewhat similar course requirements for her major…though some of the bigger schools had more options for electives and gen ed. She doesn’t like math, luckily at all her schools she only had to take one or two math classes at the most. For S he knows he wants to major in an area of science, but he’s not decided on exactly what…but he has looked at the requirements to see what he wants to specialize in…
B. Only when we toured Cal State schools did we get concerned about this…
C. Again, mostly when we toured Cal State schools did we get concerned about this. But, at most schools this didn’t seem to be a concern…
D. At some of the catholic schools we toured you had to take one religion class, but that wasn’t too much of an issue for D or S. D did up going to a non religious school. D was interested in going the politics route so she didn’t have to take very much math or science at any of the schools she was interested in. She could’ve been exempted from math/science at some schools if she scored above a certain amount on the SAT or got a 5 in certain math or science AP exams…well math and science aren’t her strong suits so…It’s the same with S for foreign language requirements. But…in this country gen ed requirements are a thing. luckily at all the schools my kids are/were interested in the gen ed requirements aren’t too onerous! My D actually liked the Geology class she took as part of her gen ed requirements.
E. My D’s schools was an out of state public school. Some of her Gen Ed classes were large lectures, but too big. Most of her classes weren’t that big. Especially the upper level classes in her major. She never had an issue with getting classes she needed. With S, we’ll see.
A. Course requirements for intended majors.
Older son, ultimate choice had more courses and many more professors
Younger son, wrote up possible four year schedule for both schools
B. Entry to major requirements for intended majors.
Older son chose school were his major was a stand alone school, but the other school didn’t have entry reqs.
Neither school had entry requirements, but one school did req. majors to take foreign language all four years or be fluent in one which meant you had to start the language before the major.
C. Offered upper level courses and frequency of offering in intended majors.
Not an issue for either kid.
D. General education requirements.
Older son had fewer GE requirements at school he attended.
Younger son really liked the Core at the school he turned down, ended up at school with GE requirements, got most few out of the way with AP credits.
E. Class size and capacity in courses of interest as listed in class schedules.
All schools in contention had a mix of lecture and seminar sized courses.
Neither kid changed their prospective majors, but younger son was aware he might want to. One college was eliminated because it was very strong in the intended major, but not nearly as strong overall.
I think this is another one of those “it depends on the kid” issues. I also think it’s really hard to pin down some of these things in a reliable way, as circumstances change all the time. So, no spreadsheet for us on these issues. Our S knows he wants a small school, he has an idea what he wants to major in, and there is a sport that is important to him, but as long as those criteria are satisfied he focuses primarily on the people and the overall fit. A-E are beyond his level of interest, and given he is an adaptable kid, I’m not too worried about that. I have tried to make sure he understands how the two schools he is choosing between differ as to D (on this point, I tried to satisfy myself that the requirements made sense and weren’t too restrictive - he doesn’t care now, but he may later). As to E, class size is important but capacity/ability to get in are often hard to pin down. With a small school, there probably will be situations where he can’t get into a desired course on the first try, so he will have to learn to plan around that.
@Rivet2000 My eyes hit the middle of your second paragraph first and I had to look to see if I’d replied and forgotten! I would love to hear your S’s options and which school he chose.
S19 also wants an AI track for CS and spent a lot of time looking at the number of courses offered and types of CS when he made his list. He’s getting ready to start comparing his options.
Both of my D’s had very different criteria and were not focused on the specifics.
When my S was choosing colleges, we looked at their catalogs in great details. We mapped out all his required courses in his intended majors plus all the other courses he’s interested to take in all four years, taking into account prerequisites for these courses, etc. We then compare the courses of study between the colleges on their contents and their rigors (from the current or past course websites). Obviously, this course of study will certainly be subject to changes, but it serves as a good starting point.
We researched this thoroughly when making a decision after acceptance, and I recommend this to everyone posting an “a or b” question. On the surface, all schools considered seemed fine for possible courses of study. But the differences can really affect a student 's experience. FL or math competency through distribution requirements, ability to study abroad, requirements within a major, – those can vary enormously.
We did. We had a spreadsheet in which we created a four year plan for every school under consideration that included gen ed requirements, honors program requirements, AP credit, major(s) and minor requirements, possible courseloads for all four years to complete everything, available study abroad programs, clubs/activities, and special programs, and much more. It was a ton of work but really helped with my D’s decision. She now uses the one we did for her current school as a 4 year guide.
Well, I tried but…
S1 is a musician and his criteria was only the reputation of the school (conservatory) and of his private teacher.
S2 did not even look at the many pages of course catalogs that I printed listing distribution requirements, major requirements, course descriptions, degree checklists, etc comparing several LACs to medium and large research universities. His concern was academic rigor, fit, and reputation, figuring that he would get a great/comparable education at any of the schools he was accepted to. And he was right.
@drewsmom17 I’ll PM you
Yes, there have been posts on these forums where a student is roadblocked from a degree due to difficulty meeting the college’s foreign language or math general education requirement, which may be higher than that of other colleges the student may have chosen.
All of the above, for both public flagship kid and for LAC kid, though some topics were more relevant for one than for the other.
Flagship kid looked at major requirements for areas of interest, wasn’t worried about admission to major as a humanities/social sciences kid, did consider gen eds and came to regret not self studying for some science APs based on his IB curriculum in order to knock off the 12 credit requirement (ugh). Class size wasn’t much of a factor since he knew the ranges, though being in Honors offered the option of taking large courses for Honors credit which meant weekly discussion section was led by the professor rather than TA – used strategically for areas of interest.
LAC kid looked generally at major requirements for areas of interest, also didn’t consider admission to major as a LAC kid. Looked very closely at gen ed requirements and I, personally, found the differences fascinating – comparing Grinnell’s open curriculum with limits on the maximum number of credits from a department and field so that students can’t take only classes in one or two related departments and explore nothing else over 4 years; Bates’ requirement of a minor or cluster of courses in addition to a major; Kenyon’s requirement that students take their distribution requirements (such as sciences) from the same department, so the idea is depth within the distribution requirement; and Denison’s requirement that the 2 courses in the distribution requirement (such as sciences) must be from different departments so the idea is exposure to more areas of inquiry. Class size was important – it mattered whether classes were capped in the 20 range or whether popular Intro classes drifted up into the 40s.
Note that there are colleges that require both breadth and depth in their general education requirements. For example: https://www.hmc.edu/hsa/curriculum/graduation-requirements/ .