How Correct is this A for Admissions Book?

Applying to College
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<p>Michele, would you discourage internationals who need FA from applying ED especially if the school does not guarantee meeting full need? There was no clear cut information on your book regarding this topic.
Thanks in advance.
btw, I have 2 of your books…A for admission, and Acing the college application. Loved the books.</p>

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<p>Michelle:</p>

<p>You are welcome. I’m a big fan of your book. And I readily freely admit that you provided quick response to a few e-mails I threw your way back when my oldest was in his search. So thank YOU.</p>

<p>My $0.02 on H dropping EA. They were getting blasted by the pooh-bahs at the NYT, and bad local press is bad local press. But, H is full of REALLY smart folks, so they had to consider ALL alternatives, including restricting EA to a much small portion of the pool, say ~30% of the total (similar to some ED colleges). However, after looking at their historical data, H came to the conclusion that they would end up deferring some well qualified applicants (who would have been accepted otherwise); those apps might fill spurned and to go Y (or S) instead. In addition, deferring a larger portion could inflame some of their large $$ benefactors (by deferring the young scion). </p>

<p>Thus, going RD was an easy way out. And of course, anything that the NYT loves…</p>

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<p>The trouble with that ‘analysis’ is that Harvard has yet to publish any data showing that their new RD policy increased the number of poor kids. Ditto Princeton. At least UVa came clean. In the year UVa went RD (from ED), they received a huge increase of exactly TWO Pell grant students. Yup, just 2. (So much for the ED impact on the poor…)</p>

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<p>Bluebayou, while this paper does not specifically addresses the impact of the new RD policy, it does addresses related issues. You might enjoy it! </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nber.org/papers/w12029.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nber.org/papers/w12029.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>COST SHOULD BE NO BARRIER:
AN EVALUATION OF THE FIRST YEAR OF HARVARD’S FINANCIAL AID INITIATIVE</p>

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<p>fogfog – yes, the AI is still used at the Ivies – but not as NESCAC schools - read Chris Lincoln’s Playing the Game which explains the whole process. The Ivies still use the AI to balance teams so their AVERAGE AI has to be a certain amount. Hope that helps</p>

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<p>To quickly answer the other questions (I was at a 4 hour school board meeting) – if you are an international student applying to a school that is NOT 100% need blind for FA, you’re better off NOT applying. As for weighted/unweighted, that has not changed. Colleges always look at 1 - rigor of course load and 2-- rank taking that into account.
For top colleges, weighted GPA’s are easier as they do both of these in one number/rank.</p>

<p>To add a final comment to the Harvard debate, they could have simply done what most schools do and LIMIT the percentage of the class in early. Princeton for example ALWAYS took 50% of its class in early which didn’t leave very many spots in regular! Dartmouth which has ED made a conscious decision to limit the ED class to 33% of the total class so they had 67% or so of the class’s space available in regular. So if all schools had ED or EA and simply limited the number, it would take some of those super strong kids out of the pool so they don’t come back in regular and apply to 25 schools (those kids who get deferred at Yale for example!)</p>

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<p>And to respond to what Xiggi posted before I sleep, Harvard didn’t have to get rid of EA to accomplish that! All they needed to do was announce their financial initiatives - that’s what makes kids apply!! EA versus regular is not the issue if students realize they’ll get a full ride. EA in fact has NOTHING do with it.</p>

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<p>Thanks for taking the time to respond to people’s inquiries, Michele.</p>

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<p>Thanks for answering my (and others’) questions Michele. Your book has been an invaluable resource for me; I actually have both editions in my makeshift library in my bedroom. I cannot afford any college prep or tutors at all, so obviously your book demystified alot and helped me approach the college admissions game from a more well-informed angle. Once again, thanks. I’m truly indebted to you for your work. :D</p>

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<p>Stop, you’re making me blush. I enjoy answering questions -no problem. Just email me if you need specific answers as I’ll be on the road for 2 days. Cheers
Michele</p>

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<p>thanks xig, but I have seen that data. Of course, it has zero to do with the EA/RD discussion since it is ALL about more money, and outreach. Now I suppose a case could be made that dropping EA allowed H the freedom for greater outreach – it’s not like they don’t have the money to blanket every high school with gold-plated invites even with EA – but that is all anecdotal, which goes back to my main point: there is zero data that indicates that ED is a hindrance to the poor.</p>

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<p>One could probably find “some” data, but the reality is that ED and EA are subjects that do not generate much interest in the research community. When I started a research project on this precise issue, not only was I surprised to see how little had been researched but I was openly discouraged to pursue something that was NOT a perceived problem. </p>

<p>I think this will remain an issue that is talked about but in speculative terms, as the people who know have little interest in seeing the data made public.</p>

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<p>The reason it is not a “perceived problem” is bcos admissions to highly selective colleges ‘advantages the advantaged’, period. It has nothing to do with ED as UVa’s experience clearly demonstrates. IMO, that is the dirty little secret that Adcoms in the highly selectives don’t want to publicly admit. Using ED as a foil just go the NYT from looking further. </p>

<p>(As mini would often say, there is a really good reason that 50-65% of matriculants to top colleges are full pay, i.e., top ~5% of US income…)</p>

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<p>BB, I am not entirely sure that adcoms are that determined to keep secrets about ED. After all, the research of Avery opened the can of worms, and the well publicized sale of seats to the Lauren family by Duke did little to change the opinions of observers. </p>

<p>What is less clear is the relative impact of ED on lower income students. For instance, doesn’t a student who has a zero EFC benefit from participating in the early rounds and rely on the higher percentage of admissions? The success of programs such as Questbridge seems to indicate that the schools are quite willing to reach out to competitive students in the early months of the admission cycles, and this despite having to offer 100% financial aid. </p>

<p>To evaluate the ED correctly, it is not sufficient to look at its benefits or deficiencies in a vacuum; it is necessary to compare it to the RD round and see if the patterns are different. It is entirely possible that the ED might help lower income students more than the RD, but that the ENTIRE admission process greatly favors the richer students. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, it is almost certain that we will never be able to read a comprehensive report on this issue.</p>

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<p>xiggi:</p>

<p>I totally agree (and is why I am usually the lone? voice on cc that does not agree with the universal statement: if you need finaid, you should not apply ED). By the same token, the ‘can of worms’ opened by Hoxby et al are just that, a can of worms. Everyone jumped to the (perhaps logical?) conclusion that advantaging the rich means an automatic disadvantage to the non-rich. But the simple fact is that the WHOLE process advantages the wealthy. IMO, blaming ED for less-than-successful outcomes is akin to shooting the messenger. It feels good, but s/he really ain’t to blame.</p>

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<p>It is a great pleasure to see that Michele AND Xiggi are both in this thread!</p>

<p>I found Michele’s book extremely helpful. It guided a lot of my application-presentation back in the day when I applied to college in 2004-2005. The “slice of life” method of describing the college essay process, in particular, was quite insightful/useful, and it really helped me write some decent stories. </p>

<p>And on the other hand, here, we have Xiggi – whose SAT advice propelled me to great new heights, haha.</p>

<p>So, really, I have both of you to thank for helping me strengthen not only my test scores, but also my essays and overall application. I wonder if I would have been able to get into the schools that I did without all the information you both have contributed.</p>

<p>Thanks for the valuable advice!</p>

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<p>Hello, LegendofMax. Hope life is good after Wharton! :)</p>

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<p>Good to hear from you. :D</p>

<p>I never did ask… what is the origin of your name, anyway?</p>