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<p>I sure wouldn’t want it to get lost while my son is in it. It’s hard enough keeping track of my kids these days!</p>
<p>Hah! I love that school. My heart broke when my daughter wouldn’t go there. It’s perfect. If I had it to do over again…which, unfortunately, I do not…</p>
<p>Brown waitlisted me back in the 80’s, sob.</p>
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<p>I have a question about using UC Berkeley to show that other schools must be implementing quotas because Asian-American enrollment there is so high compared to, say, Ivies.</p>
<p>The state of CA is just over 10% Asian (next state down the list has half that - NJ at 5%).</p>
<p>Berkeley’s latest class of 13K is 9.2K CA residents (70% instate), 43% of the class is Asian-American.</p>
<p>Harvard, as we saw, is at 22% Asian-American. I can’t find CA only stats but I do see “Pacific” at 17%. Presumably this includes WA and OR.</p>
<p>Does UCB taking so many from a state with a much higher Asian population even the %s out in any way?</p>
<p>poetgrl - I am worried about everyone’s eyesight. I am trading off being nice to everyone else and impolite to one for the greater good.</p>
<p>It’s karma, though. the longer it takes to learn the nice lesson, the longer you have to stay there. I know this from experience. ;)</p>
<p>“But, it makes sense. They pay no property tax in Massachussetts. Of course they have an obligation to serve the community, at some level, the same with Northwestern or UChicago in Chicago.”</p>
<p>Interesting re H. I always thought they took more than usual from the Cambridge area, but did not know this extended throughout Massachusetts.</p>
<p>Brown IS perfect - glad you all agree with me!</p>
<p>You cannot consider the internationals when you are trying to determine whether a given college is discriminating based upon race, because Americans are not eligible for international status. You must also eliminate the race unknown category because it is impossible to know or definitively find out how those students self-identify, either at the time of application or after admission. It comes down to how the non-URM, non-international, non-unknown seats are allotted between Asians and Whites.</p>
<p>Jian Li voluntarily dropped her complaint and ended up attending Yale. An investigation would get started simply by a complaint to the Department of Justice Office of Civil Rights. </p>
<p>Back in the late 1980s/early 1990s, there was a federal investigation of the Ivies (I think Princeton and Harvard, but am not 100% sure) alleging discrimination against Asians. While the 14th Amendment does not apply to a private entity like Harvard, federal civil rights statutes that incorporate EPC protections do apply (why if AA goes down in Fisher it will impact all colleges, not just Texas, hence all the amicus briefs from private colleges). </p>
<p>Interestingly, during the course of the three year DOJ investigation, Asian numbers miraculously increased at these two schools. Ultimately, DOJ did not find enough evidence to warrant a charge of intentional discrimination, but the DOJ did find lots of ugly descriptions in admissions folders of asians, ie grinds, robots, typical asian kid etc. I tried to find DOJ’s final report online, but could not and am not sure it is public. </p>
<p>In my view, the case is much stronger today per all the stats in the Charles Murray article cited by Beliavksy a few pages ago. To have standing to sue, you would need a rejected asian applicant who looks good on paper (not too hard to find). You would not need “smoking gun” documentary evidence if the statistical case is strong enough. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I would not recommend litigation for anyone as it is a long and arduous and often frustrating process and by the time it ends the student will be 22 years old and a graduate of another school. (ala Fisher).</p>
<p>except harvard admitted 22% this past year</p>
<p>This is not asian americans. It is counting international applicants who are asian as well.</p>
<p>An older article (2005) covers a lot of the ground we have here, Jewish quotas and Asians and legacies and athletes, even “not shy” and “attractive” people. It also covers the notion that top students do well whether they go to a “lesser” school or an Ivy…except the lowest SES students who DO benefit from attending an Ivy.</p>
<p>[Getting</a> In : The New Yorker](<a href=“http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlarge?currentPage=all]Getting”>Getting In | The New Yorker)</p>
<p>These struck me: </p>
<p>
[quote]
Harvard, Yale, and Princeton chose to adopt what might be called the “best graduates” approach to admissions. France’s </p>
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<p>No, it is Asian-Americans only.</p>
<p>Again: [Harvard</a> College Admissions § Applying: Statistics](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/statistics.html]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/statistics.html)</p>
<p>JHS “For example, Columbia’s 29% clearly includes internationals, while Harvard’s 22% clearly doesn’t.”</p>
<p>What makes you say that. Harvard has the 22% figure listed for ethnicity. It makes no rep’s re number of asian americans or that int’l are not included in this figure. </p>
<p>Do agree if the number is 22% and all the Ivy figures cited here are for Asian americans (not including int’ls) than the statistical case would be difficult given the sudden upward turn in rates. </p>
<p>Also, glad that the Ivies have gotten the message if this is the case.</p>
<p>Well, agree away, because it very specifically says “Asian Americans”</p>
<p>Mea culpa you are right re H and 21%. I was reading too fast. Thanks.</p>
<p>Asian American is defined as someone born in US. </p>
<p>Columbia is making a distinction stating Asian/Asian American to show they are including internationals in the 29%</p>
<p>Jian Li is a he, and he did not drop his complaint, which was against Princeton. It just didn’t go anywhere.</p>
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Again, I urge you not to confuse two issues–whether URMs are getting preference because of race, and whether Asians are being discriminated against (vs. whites) because of race. These are not the same legally, or in my opinion, ethically. And PR-wise, it’s just not as attractive to claim that a black kid stole your spot than to claim that a white kid did so. Well, it’s perhaps just as unattractive to claim that a Jewish kid did so.</p>
<p>Exactly. Wyoming kids might get preference because of their relative rarity, but that doesn’t equate to prejudice AGAINST Massachusetts or New York or California kids. </p>
<p>And it is always interesting to note that the 2390 Asian or white kid who didn’t get it always seems to have “lost his spot” to the 2100 black kid – and never to a 2100 Asian or white kid. It speaks volumes about who’s really racist.</p>
<p>For those who suspect some big conspiracy against Asian-Americans.</p>
<p>Do you believe Asian-Americans are made to feel unwelcome, or aren’t generally welcomed, at any elite school? Are there not enough support services? What is behind your belief / suspicion that people explicitly consider “too many Asians” the bad thing, as opposed to “not enough URM’s” as the bad thing?</p>
<p>I was just about to correct the fact that Jian is a guy. I know Jian. He ended up transferring to Harvard from Yale…ironically enough.</p>