How could I get into RISD or another top art college?

<p>I've honestly never really thought about attending an art college and my high school curriculum has been geared towards academics, not arts. I like to draw though. I've been drawing for over a decade now and I'd like to know what my future would be like if I continued to draw. However, I've been neglecting my art for a few years now, ever since I started highschool and I'm worried my chances of ever getting into an art college are non-existent.</p>

<p>I'm a junior this year and here are my relevant stats
GPA- 4.0 unweighted, 4.5 weighted
I take a lot of APs (10+ after senior year) and honors courses
I'm president of Art Club
I've gotten a 5 in AP Art History (don't know how relevant this is)
I've gotten a few awards from state competitions like the junior duck stamp and other quirky non-profits, nothing impressive
I haven't taken the SAT yet, but I expect to get a 2000+</p>

<p>I do color pencil and pen drawings and I focus mostly on realism. I enjoy oil paint and sketch as well.</p>

<p>What should I be doing to make myself eligible for an art college?
I've read that they don't take academics too high into consideration, so am I already at a disadvantage?</p>

<p>there were kids like you did summer pre college and polished portfolio, gotten in everywhere they applied.
If you are really good at realism, apply to Marie Walsh Sharpe.
[url=&lt;a href=“http://sharpeartfdn.qwestoffice.net/summer1.htm]Summer[/url”&gt;http://sharpeartfdn.qwestoffice.net/summer1.htm]Summer[/url</a>]
They don’t ask for transcript but somehow it have been brainy art kids magnet.
If you are accepted, all free except transportation and will give you credentials comes app time.
RISD MICA SAIC pre colleges are also good if you can afford it. If you work one summer really hard, I bet you can make it anywhere, wherever the “top” school you mean.</p>

<p>Well, pick up your tools and start working again! If you can afford to take a class or do a summer program that’s great, but you can do plenty to polish your portfolio on your own. Take a look at the requirements for portfolio submissions at various schools you’re interested in and work particularly hard in those areas. Go to a portfolio review day. Talk to admissions counselors at schools your interested in. And then work hard to get a good body of work together. I’m not certain how closely art schools look at this before you get in, but I’d also recommend in the long run considering what makes your point of view and your work distinct/unique. A lot of people can draw or paint realistically, but what else makes you special and will lead to your success as an artist?</p>

<p>I think you’ll be fine though. As far as I know most people in fine arts schools don’t attend arts-specific schools. You seem to have a good amount of experience, and if you take the time to create a substantial body of work then the only thing that could potentially hurt you is the work itself. Find people you trust and admire that could serve as good critics, and again visit schools you’re interested in to find out what they are looking for.</p>

<p>Oh awesome. Time to google how to make art portfolios… I don’t have much of my artwork in the last 5 years in bulk though =-=</p>

<p>The best schools for realism in the world are non-university programs. If you want to work full-time as a painter or artist, this is where you go:</p>

<p>Florence Academy of Art, Florence, Italy
Angel Academy of Art, Florence italy
Grand Central Academy of Art, NYC
–and there are others in the US, check the ARC (Art Renewal Center) website for a list.</p>

<p>You will draw and paint 12 hours a day. My daughter spent five years in the first two programs, and is now a full-time professional painter making an extremely good salary for a 24-year old artist. No one coming out of a US university art program can compete with these programs. She got all the art scholarships (including Elizabeth Greenshields twice) which paid her way through school.</p>

<p>woodwinds:
Where your daughter work for? Or she just sell by Gallary?
Thanks!</p>

<p>Am I allowed to give a website?</p>

<p>[Untitled</a> Document](<a href=“http://www.teresaoaxaca.com%5DUntitled”>http://www.teresaoaxaca.com)</p>

<p>She’s (Teresa Oaxaca–just google her name and it comes up) got a weekly blog you might find interesting. She works for herself and has to turn away customers. She is constantly asked by galleries to join but she doesn’t want to, at least not yet. They charge 50%, or more, commission, and she’s learned how to market herself quite well.</p>

<p>You will need a very competitive portfolio for acceptance at a school like RISD or similar schools such as MICA or SAIC. In order to develop a competitive portfolio, you will need to commit to an art summer program. There are many options including SVA, Skidmore, Carnegie-Mellon and others. Additionally if your school does not offer AP Level Studio Art you will need to find a place where you live in which to study outside of school. My daughter attended the Skidmore Summer Program after her junior year and I highly recommend. It is a five-week program, usually beginning right after July 4th.</p>

<p>woodwinds, my daughter would LOVE to do this program as part of a study abroad. She is a fabulous classical painter and would love to focus on that next year. It says on the website this is possible. Could you tell me anything about Florence Academy? Positives? NEgatives? If you want, you can private message me too. MANY thanks!</p>

<p>hoveringmom, my daughter studied in Florence INSTEAD of attending undergrad. She started when she was 17, and stayed for five years. Most of the students there had already completed their BA, but felt they hadn’t received enough training in drawing and painting at university, and then went to Florence. The Florence Academy of Art is designed primarily for students willing to complete the full Certificate Program (3-4 years). It also accepts students willing to come for only one year, but they will not learn the full program.</p>

<p>The program’s structure goes like this: Learn to draw first, then to paint. The first YEAR is spent drawing. One must learn how to draw anything exactly as it looks before progressing. Many students coming from college programs feel they already know how to draw, but they don’t. Many college art programs tell students that anyone can learn to draw–but it is not true that they can learn to draw WELL. Many students cannot get past this point. Those who come with an open mind, an extremely hard work ethic and patience are the best candidates. The image of the typical “art student” casually drawing during the day and going to shows in the evenings is fiction. The students who make it through this program treat it like medical school–they work all day, and then all evening too. Seven days a week.</p>

<p>My daughter spent 3 years and got her certificate at the Angel Academy of Art in Florence (similar program), and then about 1.5 years in graudate work at the Florence Academy of Art. She was also a drawing instructor at Florence, teaching life drawing. She says that the biggest problem with students coming on “study abroad” programs" for only one year is that there is no time to learn to paint “classically”. If a student is serious about classical or realistic painting, they will study for several years until they can complete the program. Most students who come for only one year will not be at the level of those completing the 3-year certificate program.</p>

<p>My daughter is now a full-time painter who does extremely well. This year she plans to return to Europe and tour. She may possibly return to Florence to teach again part-time for 1-3 years.</p>

<p>When she first started in Florence, she roomed with students who were studying art for only a year. These students were mainly with the SACI program I believe. My daughter commented that they were all goofing off and learned next to nothing. They were very different than the students committed to ateliers for the full 3-4 year programs.</p>

<p>If you’d like, you can send me a link (either here or private message) to your daughter’s art and I’ll take a look at it.</p>

<p>Here’s a link to my daughter’s blog, where she discusses studying art in Florence:</p>

<p>[Drawing</a> & Painting Journal: On Studying Art, Florence](<a href=“http://teresaoaxaca.blogspot.com/2010/10/on-studying-art-florence.html]Drawing”>Drawing & Painting Journal : On Studying Art, Florence)</p>

<p>Here’s short quote from that blog:</p>

<p>When you do find the school of your dreams, plan to enroll for the complete duration of the program. Ateliers are built to introduce students to difficult concepts in increments- To leave early is truncate your education. Surrender your ego to your instructors, if they say study Bargue, Ingres, and Bougereau than do it. There is a reason for everything; the best students are usually the ones who have taken directions well. When you leave school you should have a solid foundation under you, and then it’s up to you to start experimenting and creating art.</p>

<p>This may be slightly off topic, but you may want to consider SCAD, Savannah College of Art and Design, in Georgia. Very reputable art school(:</p>

<p>Actually, if you want to learn to be a classically trained artist, the Art Renewal Center provides a list of ateliers and academies that will teach you this:</p>

<p>Atelier Index
Academy of Realist Art (ARA), Toronto, Ontario
Academy of Realist Art Boston, Boston, Massachusetts
Adrian Gottlieb Studio and Atelier, Los Angeles, California
Andreeva Portrait Academy, Salado, Texas
Angel Academy of Art, Florence, Florence, Tuscany
Ani Art Academy Waichulis, Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania
Apprenticeships: The Atelier of Virgil Elliott, Penngrove, California
Aristides Classical Atelier, Seattle, Washington
Atelier BACAA, San Carlos, California
Atelier Canova, Rome,
Atelier Florence Academy of Art, Florence,
Atelier Indiana, New Castle, Indiana
Atelier Maui, Haiku, Hawaii
Atelier School of Classical Realism, Oakland, California
Atelier Stockholm, Stockholm, Södermanland
Atelier/Los Angeles Academy of Figurative Art (LAAFA), Van Nuys, California
Bohemiarte School and Gallery, Montreal, Quebec
Bridgeview School of Fine Arts, Long Island City, New York
Charles H. Cecil Studios, Firenze, Florence
Class: Avenue Road Arts School - John Viljoen, Toronto, Ontario
Class: duCret School of the Arts - Frank Falotico, Plainfield, New York
Class: The Art Students League of New York - Frank L. Porcu, New York, New York
Class: The Art Students League of New York - Jack Faragasso, New York, New York
Class: The Art Students League of New York - Mary Beth McKenzie, New York, New York
Class: The Art Students League of New York - Nelson Shanks, New York, New York
Class: The Art Students League of New York - Sherry Camhy, New York, New York
Class: The National Academy of Design School of Fine Arts - Anthony Antonios, New York, New York
Class: Woodstock School of Art - Hong Nian Zhang, Woodstock, New York
Georgetown Atelier, Seattle, Washington
Gold Light Studios, Perkasie, Pennsylvania
Grand Central Academy of Art, New York, New York
Ingbretson Studio of Drawing and Painting, Manchester, New Hampshire
Kewaunee Academy of Fine Art, Algoma
L’Ecole Albert Defois, Les Cerqueux sous Passavant
Lafayette Atelier, Lafayette
Laguna College of Art and Design School of Fine Art, Laguna Beach
Lausanne Collegiate School: The Michelangelo Project, Memphis
Lavender Hill Studios, London
London Atelier of Representational Art, London
Long Island Academy of Fine Art, Glen Cove
Los Angeles Academy of Figurative Art (LAAFA) - Extension Program, Van Nuys
Lyme Academy College of Fine Arts, Old Lyme
Marvin Mattelson Classes and Workshops, New York
New York Academy of Art, New York
Norway: Torhild Ramberg Studio, Steinkjer
Studio Incamminati, Philadelphia
Teaching Studios of Art, Brooklyn and Oyster Bay
Texas Academy of Figurative Art, Fort Worth
The Atelier: Studio Program of Fine Art, Minneapolis
The Center for Academic Study and Naturalist Painting, Springville
The Face of Infinity - Capturing the Spirit of the Head in Oil, Scottsdale
The Harlem Studio of Art: NYK Academy, New York
The Igor Babailov Institute of Realism, Brentwood
The Ryder Studio, Santa Fe
The School of Representational Art, Chicago
The Schuler School of Fine Arts, Baltimore
The Southern Atelier, Sarasota
The Water Street Atelier, New York City
Watts Atelier of the Arts, LLC, Encinitas
Workshops: Daniel Greene, North Salem
Workshops: Max Ginsburg, New York
Workshops: Michael Newberry, Santa Monica</p>

<p>Not many U.S. universities or colleges make the list. Note that the Lyme Academy and the New York Academy of Art do make the list.</p>

<p>Woodwinds, I just want to preface this saying that I am not looking for an argument (I dont think the tone of this post is argumentative but I imagine that this could be a controversial topic). I am just very curious about the education of an artist in this kind of environment and I know next to nothing about the structure of this kind of education, therefore I am naturally a bit skeptical of a few things regarding the success of an artist after graduating from these programs.</p>

<p>Obviously, the elephant in the room is that ateliers dont confer degrees. Isnt that a serious problem for someone trying to enter a graduate school - or if they cant support themselves with their artwork and they need to find a job?</p>

<p>In your experience do galleries descriminate against artists educated this way? Conversely do atelier trained artists perform better sales wise?</p>

<p>How do people manage to pay for these kinds of programs? I cant imagine that a pell grant would be an option.</p>

<p>Do these schools prepare their students conceptually? A lot of “modern” art making seems to be concerned less with technical ability and more with finding an artist’s personal ‘voice.’ I dont mean to offend (and I really dont) but while I thought the drawing and painting ability your daughter demonstrated was impressive - and indeed exceptional - I didnt detect any sorts of conceptual considerations in her work; though some pieces seemed a bit illustrative.</p>

<p>On a similar note, do these ateliers allow room for experimentation in various mediums? In mixing mediums? Or are you allowed as much creativity as an accounting major?</p>

<p>I noticed that the list you provided didnt include the pennsylvania Academy of fine arts, from what I understand (which I already admitted wasnt much) the school has a similar structure. It is suppossedly the oldest art school in the nation. Was the omission of PAFA due to that school not meeting some kind of criteria of the art renewal center? Does the art renewal center rank these programs? Is there a published list?</p>

<p>Aside from that, do you think that artists educated this way are overall more or less well rounded than artists studying as an undergrad at an art school? </p>

<p>I noticed you commented that artists at atelier study their craft 12 hours a day.<br>
You then make it seem as if college art students dont study art for a similar amount of time; however I know that’s untrue for the most part from my own experience. Students at risd/mica/cooper union/SAIC/Pratt/parsons/Art center seem to eat sleep and dream art. Was your experience of these kinds of students from a single school or from various schools?</p>

<p>GraphicArchitect, you have a number of very good questions. I also understand that these isssues are controversial in the art departments at universities, but I am not a part of that and also not interested in controversy. I just wanted to share part of what I’ve learned from my daughter’s experience.</p>

<p>Art ateliers do not confer university degrees. This was something I was initially concerned with when my daughter, at age 15, told me she’d found several ateliers in Italy online. I agreed to send her for one year if she applied to some universities, kept up her high GPA, and “practiced” moving around large cities by herself. She got all A’s in AP classes, went to New York every Sunday on her own for two years, and graduated one year early. Her first year went well in the atelier, and she asked to stay for the full program, explaining that she’d only learned to draw in one year and she wanted to paint. We could see the enormous progress she’d made in that year, so we agreed. We also could compare her progress with a friend of hers who had gone to MICA (both of them had won all the gold scholastic awards in our area the year the before). My daughter’s friend had made nowhere near the progress in drawing my daughter had made. This friend’s mother explained to me that her daughter only received 6 hours of drawing instruction a week at MICA, which in no way could compare to my daughter’s 12 hours a day of instruction. The difference was striking, because the year before the two had very similar drawing abilities. Anyway, when I compared my daughter’s drawings with her friend’s, I was reassured that we had done the right thing. </p>

<p>“Obviously, the elephant in the room is that ateliers don’t confer degrees. Isnt that a serious problem for someone trying to enter a graduate school - or if they can’t support themselves with their artwork and they need to find a job?”</p>

<p>I’m not aware of a problem like this. When a student completes the atelier program, he/she does not need graduate school. They are ready to paint, produce and sell. I believe all of my daughter’s former colleagues are doing this, although some are better at it–art and marketing–than others. But you are correct–my daughter could not attend a graduate school in a university–not that she would want to anyway.</p>

<p>“In your experience do galleries descriminate against artists educated this way? Conversely do atelier trained artists perform better sales wise?”</p>

<p>Many galleries prefer modern art, and therefore do not seek out artists trained in ateliers. However, this is not a problem, because there are many galleries that DO want artists such as my daughter. I don’t know, statistically, which galleries perform better. I do know that my daughter and her colleagues have no problem with sales. Many of them do not use galleries, since today it is not difficult to market oneself and take commissions directly from clients. My daughter has been supporting herself since she was 20.</p>

<p>“How do people manage to pay for these kinds of programs? I cant imagine that a pell grant would be an option.”</p>

<p>When my daughter started at the atelier, it was cheaper than attending a state university, and far cheaper than attending any private art school in the U.S. You are correct that funding administered by the U.S. Department of Education is limited to U.S. schools. Perhaps one exception is the Florence Academy of Art, which is classified as a U.S. art school. We’re middle class and don’t qualify for anything. We paid for her first year, and then she started applying for scholarships that are specifically designated for classical art students. Also, she began selling her work after the first year and taking commissions.</p>

<p>“Do these schools prepare their students conceptually? A lot of “modern” art making seems to be concerned less with technical ability and more with finding an artist’s personal 'voice.”</p>

<p>The two ateliers I’m familiar with (Angel and Florence Academy of Art) train students technically, under the belief that one cannnot be free conceptually to paint until one has the technical ability to do so.</p>

<p>“On a similar note, do these ateliers allow room for experimentation in various mediums? In mixing mediums? Or are you allowed as much creativity as an accounting major?”</p>

<p>I liken these ateliers more to music conservatories than accounting. At a conservatory one is required to learn and master the basics: scales, Bach, Mozart, Romantic contemporary and modern eras. As long as a music student learns these basics, they are allowed to also perform some “creative” works in recitals and elsewhere. But they are not allowed to skip these basic steps, no, and for the most part students develop their personal style after they leave school. The art ateliers also focus on the basics. By the time students get to still life works, they can select their own objects for their paintings. The 3-year certificate program takes them through these basics, and really 3 years is not that long. My daughter went beyond this and studied composition and larger-scale works as graduate work. I’m not an artist, but my daughter believes creativity cannot be taught; it comes from within. When students graduate from ateliers, they begin to experiment with expressing themselves in their artwork, and they have all the tools they need to paint whatever they want, including abstract art if they so choose.</p>

<p>“I noticed that the list you provided didn’t include the Pennsylvania Academy of fine arts, from what I understand (which I already admitted wasnt much) the school has a similar structure. It is suppossedly the oldest art school in the nation. Was the omission of PAFA due to that school not meeting some kind of criteria of the art renewal center? Does the art renewal center rank these programs? Is there a published list?”</p>

<p>I recall that the Pennsylvania Academy, as well at the Rhode Island School of Design, used to be on this list (of ARC approved schools). I don’t know why they are no longer there. Perhaps the drawing programs at these schools changed or the professor retired. I don’t believe ARC ranks the ateliers and schools–I think they just provide the list as a service for people looking for information. I think my daughter’s advice is good here–look at the artwork produced by the instructors when choosing a place to study. You will not be taught more than they know.</p>

<p>“Aside from that, do you think that artists educated this way are overall more or less well rounded than artists studying as an undergrad at an art school?”</p>

<p>If you want to be “well-rounded”, meaning, you will learn a little pottery, a little drawing, a little commercial art, a little sculpture, a little modern art, a little still life–that may be what a U.S. accredited art program teaches–I don’t know. No one in my family has attended one of those. But if you want to be an expert in drawing and painting in a classical (or my daughter’s term “neo-Baroque”) manner, go to an atelier.</p>

<p>"I noticed you commented that artists at atelier study their craft 12 hours a day.
You then make it seem as if college art students dont study art for a similar amount of time; however I know that’s untrue for the most part from my own experience. "</p>

<p>Sorry I wasn’t clear. I have no idea how many hours students in the U.S. study at art schools. My comment was geared towards students on study abroad programs, that they frequently view it as a vacation and do not get as much out of the programs. In an earlier post someone asked about studying in Florence for a year. I think a student would get far more out of staying for the entire program.</p>

<p>As a final note (in a very long post), my daughter’s friend that went to MICA is happy with what she learned. She ended up going into commercial art and likes it. My daughter would not have been happy with it. Everyone is different.</p>

<p>Also, instead of finding a ranking of ateliers (which I don’t believe exists) you could look at the results of some of the competitions for classical or realist-based artists. Some of these competitions are:</p>

<p>ARC (Art Renewal Center) Salon (for professionals)
ARC Student Competition
International Portrait Competition</p>

<p>If you look at these and similar competitions, also going back a few years, I believe a pattern emerges with a large percentage of winners and finalists coming from the Florence Academy, Angel Academy, and some ateliers in New York. These are the older ateliers. Graduates from these ateliers opened new ateliers–actually there has been an explosion of new ateliers.</p>

<p>Woodwinds, I’d rather not send a link to my daughter’s art, but she got accepted at all the top art schools (RISD, MICA etc), but didn’t go because of finances. She’s currently at Williams. You will just have to take my word that she is an excellent classical painter/drawer. She doesn’t goof off. Forgive me, but I’m not sure why you take the tone of assumption that she would goof off–at least, that’s how you sound. It’s sort of insulting that you would assume my daughter would view her study abroad as a ‘vacation’ because some other students your D knows did that. Also, I’m not sure why you are pitting your daughter’s school against American art schools. No need to do that. Many students here in America are also quite serious. To be honest, you diminish the school when you make claims that the only way to be a serious or successful artist is to follow the route your D took, and no other. By the way, My D would have no problem spending a serious year on drawing only. So back to my question: Please tell me specifically about the year of drawing. You say they’d work 12 hours a day? What about materials, teachers, etc? What sort of methodology do they use? Thank you.</p>

<p>hovermom, I don’t know where you got the idea that all students coming for a year to the ateliers goof off in Florence and I think your remarks to me are a bit unfair. There are many study abroad programs, at many schools, with hundreds of Americans students running around Florence. The girls my daughter roomed with at the beginning of her studies were not studying art at an atelier, and my daughter noticed they weren’t working very hard. That’s all. I did say that students coming to the ateliers would learn more if they stayed for the program instead of one year. </p>

<p>My daughter’s schools (two of them) worked well for her. There are excellent art academies in Florence, in the United States and elsewhere. I provided a long list of such academies, many of them in the United States. This is not about the difference between art academies in the U.S. vs. art academies elsewhere. It’s about finding focused (classical) art study, and there is a big difference between studying it full-time (atelier) and studying it part-time (most universities). Students going in should know this.</p>

<p>As for specifics on what students do for the first year at an atelier, I think you’d need research that on the website and through artists directly.</p>

<p>Thanks for your responses Woodwinds. I understand how Ateliers work much better now. Also like your comparison of Ateliers to a music conservatory.</p>

<p>So overall attending one of these depends on what one wants out of an art education.
It’s very impressive that your D has made that kind of progress in such a short amount of time.</p>

<p>Thanks GraphicArchitect. Yes I agree it all depends on what a student wants. They need to do a lot of research before committing to an arts school. I took my daughter during spring vacation when she was 15 to Florence, and we knocked on the doors of all these ateliers. We also visited one famous sculpture school in Italy, and in that visit determined it was not what my daughter wanted. Very helpful! I made a mistake a few years ago with another daughter and sent her to a famous summer music program, based entirely on its reputation. Well, things change! I now try very hard to look into all the angles, talk to people who have been there recently etc.</p>