<p>Woodwinds, it’s sometimes hard to communicate on these sites when we can’t read each others’ body language and tone and don’t know each other. Glad you clarified to me what you meant. It’s very impressive that your D has been so driven and successful in what she wants. Do you have any tips for my D asking any student directly? We are not well off and she certainly could not afford to travel there to visit before doing the program. She’s studied the program online and read people’s comments. Frankly, the artwork the students produce is really impressive and speaks for itself. She would dearly love to go and immerse herself in her art even if it’s only one year there–one year is better than none. Florence does have this reputation for ‘wild’ Americans who view this as one big party, but my D is certainly not like that. Thanks for any further tips.</p>
<p>hoveringmom, your daughter could visit local ateliers for starters. There are many more in the U.S. than when my daughter began her studies. You said your daughter is at Williams college, which is up north, where many of the ateliers are. Studio Icaminnati in Philadelphia has been around for some time; your daughter should contact Nelson Shanks the director. If you click on</p>
<p>[ARC</a> Approved Ateliers, Academies, and Workshops](<a href=“http://www.artrenewal.org/pages/ateliers.php]ARC”>Search ateliers and master classes - Art Renewal Center)</p>
<p>you will find the ARC list of ateliers they recommmend. Most ateliers show samples of the instructors’ and students’ work on the website. Also there are several ateliers in Massachussetts. Your daughter can go see these ateliers to learn what their approach to drawing is. It will not be much different than the ateliers in Florence, because all these schools came from the same system developed during the Renaissance which was passed down to the current ateliers. Nelson Shanks in Philadelphia for example is a contemporary of John Angel, of the Angel Academy of Art. John Angel also started the atelier in Toronto, but they later broke off, and have also now started the atelier in Boston.</p>
<p>hovmom:
have you heard of this program? [Marist</a> College Branch Campus, Florence Italy: Marist College](<a href=“http://www.marist.edu/academics/italy/index.html]Marist”>http://www.marist.edu/academics/italy/index.html)
From the discussion here I thought you might be interested.</p>
<p>Thank you so much–Great tips. I’ll pass these along to my D.</p>
<p>hoveringmom
I think your D has all advantages that woodwind’s D missed by opting out undergraduate education. No offense, it was her choice and made sense to what she wanted but your D’s goals could be very different.
Why else did she chose to attend Williams?
Williams graduate school alums are known as “mafia” in art academia. Even at undergraduate level, it could be the one of best places to study high academics side of art.
Did she used her art portfolio as a “hook” when she applied there? What is her major? Is she taking any studio art courses, if so how is she doing?
I visited Williams and talked to proffesors, students. If only judging from works on the walls, it was bit underwhelming.
Yet you got to think about bigger picture.
What does she want to do in the future?
If she wants to be a practicing fine artist who paints like that, it might be better to follow woodwind’s advice and do summer or graduate study at ateliers in US where she could get scholarships or work-study.
After all, those ARC schools mentioned are American schools happened to be established in Italy. I would guess instructions are done in English and most students are from US living together housed in dorms for that very purpose. I could be wrong about this, please correct me. I am sure more people are interesting in these issues when comes to short term study abroad. If students are to immerse in study, there are not much time left to exploring what living in Florence could offer. Unless she is fluent in Italian, she’d have to stay in her comfort zone dealing with people who can speak English.
In contrast, if “Italy” is what she wants there is no better place to learn its language, culture and art history than Williams. She can suppliments studio works somewhere else.
When she could read anything and understand its history and culture in depth, then studying abroad could take her to whole different level. If she’d win grants then no cost to you.
I’d rather look into resources that only available for caliber of Williams students and take full advantage of it.</p>
<p>Just a few corrections to happytummy’s post:</p>
<p>–most ateliers based in Italy are not American schools. In Florence, one is American, and two are British. The one in Rome might be Italian. The language is mainly English, although students come from all over the world. </p>
<p>–ateliers are not universities. There are no dorms in Italy. Students find their own housing, unless they come from wealthy families and can afford the English agents who will help find apartments. Some students sublet from others. My daughter was on a budget, and learned to deal with the Italian housing agency in Italian. Good education! This is why she is fluent in both Italian and French (having lived on her own in France as well).</p>
<p>–I don’t believe most ateliers in the U.S. are considered colleges, which means no work study. The scholarships I mentioned in an earlier post are tied to artistic ability alone and the student would apply directly to those scholarship entities.</p>
<p>I did not mean that literally, dorms=student housings of traditional US colleges.
I stayed abroad, too and I thought you would know what I meant to say.
NY academy offers scholarships.
[New</a> York Academy of Art](<a href=“http://nyaa.edu/nyaa/admissions/financialaid.html]New”>http://nyaa.edu/nyaa/admissions/financialaid.html)
So is National academy. At Art Students League, you can work to pay tuition. Some of my teachers have done that, my friends are doing that. Maybe not as the same sense as work-study in colleges. But again, I did not mean that.
That’s amazing she can communicate to live and travel. Did she grow up in such environment or did immersion course? That’s all you need but from choosing Williams, I thought that hoveringmom’s D is after something else. I could be wrong, I shouldn’t have assumed anything.</p>
<p>It is actually difficult to totally understand what each of us mean, since we’re writing and not having a conversation. I just didn’t want anyone to think that the ateliers had dorms in Florence, because they don’t.</p>
<p>We lived in The Netherlands when my daughter was young, and she visited her first art teacher again several years later. She did study French/Spanish in school, but mainly teaches herself subjects by listening to books on CDs whiles she paints. Once you know a few languages, it isn’t so hard to pick up a new but similar one once immersed in it.</p>
<p>Some of the realist-based art schools in the US do confer university degrees. I don’t think that the New York Academy of Art and the Lyme Academy are actually considered ateliers (and I’m not saying that’s a bad thing). I recall from looking at the catalogue for Lyme that students were required to take a few general courses, like social studies and English. My daughter didn’t want that, because she’d already studied beyond that with her AP courses, plus she did not feel the art instruction was rigorous enough.</p>
<p>It really is difficult to understand what each of us mean.
This thread is started by someone asking about “art colleges” like RISD. The student clearly said that up front.
I have been wondering what made you interested in giving advice to the student who is clearly looking into something different from what your D wanted. I am confused now that I read the link you attached, and your D mentioning reading Milton, first time now? Or did she mean revisiting?
This is, in my humble opinion, AP classes do to high achieving high school students.
Many top tier schools such as Williams will not accept HS AP credits. The most advanced students are made to start from scratch. Partly is how those school run things financially or over all structure of classes, but college classes are not same as APs. You can not simply dismiss ones because you have done the other.
If I have figured out this right, hovering mom’s D was writing own novel during her gap year and fluent in Latin.
As you have stated, everyone is different and there is no one right way.
I am somewhat concerned about your sold belief in the ARC circle.
In fact, from what I know its approach have been questionable.
It is good that you introduced other options to become self-supporting artist at very young age.
Let others choose as they please, I am sure you did not mean any harm by saying “If you want to work full-time as a painter or artist, this is where you go”</p>
<p>happytummy, I said up front I’m not interested in controversy.</p>
<p>The initial poster ask about art colleges an stated she was primarily interested in realist art. I provided what I thought was helpful information. Others ask me questions (lots of questions actually) which then took the topic beyond what the original poster asked.</p>
<p>Please don’t attribute your own comments about ARC (“your sold belief in the ARC circle”) to me. I stand behind my recommendation that aspiring classical-based artists (painters, sculptors) would do best to attend either the Angel or Florence academies of Art. They provide the foundation for an artist, and do so in a less expensive and more efficient manner than colleges, in general. That’s my opinion.</p>
<p>I do believe that more information is a good thing. Good luck to the aspiring artists out there. Today there is so much information online, and almost everything can be researched.</p>
<p>Hi
I too, am not looking for controversy. I simply wanted to know where you stand. You did not post here to promote your D’s works or to endorse ARC business and its affiliated schools, as now I do understand from your posts. My apology to you.
However, may I ask I too, have the right to voice my opinion?
For example this is the winner of ARC 2011 salon, the contest you have mentioned in your post. Yes, it is good that everything can be researched. Please tell me that I do not have to admire this particular work, or do I? If I do not agree with ARC’s decision, is that make me an uninformed artist?
<a href=“http://www.artrenewal.org/pages/viewartwork.php?filename=/artwork/2010-2011%20Salon/52-Max%20Ginsburg-War%20Pieta%2050_x60_5464-huge.jpg[/url]”>ARC /;
![http://www.artrenewal.org/pages/viewartwork.php?filename=/artwork/2010-2011%20Salon/52-Max%20Ginsburg-War%20Pieta%2050_x60_5464-huge.jpg[/url]](http://www.artrenewal.org/pages/viewartwork.php?filename=/artwork/2010-2011%20Salon/52-Max%20Ginsburg-War%20Pieta%2050_x60_5464-huge.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
<p>Hey Wendeli!
I currently attend an arts high school, so I know plenty about applying to art institutions! I want you to know that you are definitely not doomed. Your high academic record will be favorable to your application. It’s true that the portfolio will outweigh academics, but academics will play a big roll for some schools. If anything, it could determine the amount of scholarship you get.</p>
<p>My suggestions for completing a portfolio would be to attend a summer program, if you can afford one. You can find excellent summer programs at RISD, SAIC, MICA, CMU, VCU and a few other institutions. Shop around and see which program is best for you. Some will offer scholarships and will vary on dates.</p>
<p>What you can do if you cannot afford a summer program (or what you should do anyway) is talk to people who have gone to these art institutions. They can offer a lot of insights on the schools. Plan a visit if you can to get a feel for them.</p>
<p>I have heard of students with no art experience that got into these schools. If you’ve gotten a 5 in AP art, I would say you’ve got a fairly good chance. Check around and see if you can find any accepted portfolios, though they may be hard to find.</p>
<p>There are a few institutions that I would steer you away from. SCAD is a great place, but for the money you should go to a better institution if accepted elsewhere. A few people have gone to Memphis but they have later returned to go to the local state school. But, that’s just my personal opinions about those schools and you may find a fit there.</p>
<p>Please message me if you have any questions, and good luck!
Newberrytiger</p>
<p>
Newberrytiger, I am not sure what schools you refer to, but my understanding is that most art schools (as opposed to universities or colleges where you can major in studio art) require a portfolio consisting mostly of drawings from life. This was the experience my daughter went through, even though she was planning to enter a 3D craft major. She came to the decision to go to art school relatively late, having spent most of her precollege years concentrating on music studies. When she learned that the schools she was interested in required a <em>drawing</em> portfolio, she was initially stymied, as she had never studied drawing before (although she had relatively extensive experience in her craft major.) In the end, I don’t think her scores or grades had much to do with admissions decisions; it was the portfolio that mattered.</p>
<p>To create a portfolio that would gain her both admission and some merit aid, she had to work extremely hard during the summer prior to her senior year and throughout the first semester of her senior year, learning how to draw. The OP, with a background in drawing, should be far ahead of the game. My daughter applied only to schools that offer her unusual major which narrowed the field for her significantly. </p>
<p>She is now in her third year and I have to say that I have never seen a college student work harder than she does. And I do have experience with college students-- I teach at an Ivy; D1 graduated from an even-more-intense LAC, and D3 goes to a music conservatory. She had extremely rigorous and productive foundation courses, and her major courses are very demanding. She is generally at the studio until the wee hours of the morning. The studio is roaring 24/7-- she is not the only one working this hard. </p>
<p>It’s interesting to read of the ateliers and of this studio in Philadelphia that I was not even aware of. It’s around the corner from PAFA, which, like another poster I always considered to be a foremost institution for studying traditional, realist painting. I’m curious to learn more about this place, and even visit it. Thanks for all the info, Woodwinds.</p>
<p>My daughter recently transferred from one art school to another. Her previous school was more oriented in technique and craft; the new school seems to stress conceptual art to a much greater degree, which has been a huge and exciting challenge for her. She has gone from seeing herself as a maker to seeing herself as an artist. </p>
<p>All this is neither here nor there, except to say that the gateway to her very specific 3-D major was a required foundation year (some schools require 2 years of foundation) and the gateway to admission to that foundation year was a portfolio of drawings from life.</p>
<p>No, I didn’t say that life drawings weren’t important to a portfolio, but they shouldn’t be the whole of the portfolio either. The work shouldn’t be all directed toward the intended major, but should show the student’s well roundedness and abilities with strength in the intended major. Sketchbooks are good to show if you go to Nat’l Portfolio day as well.</p>
<p>Sent from my LG-VM701 using CC App</p>