<p>How important is it to hold a leadership position in your EC's? Assume the student otherwise has very good credentials: rigorous courseload, perfect GPA, high SAT scores, and lots of awards and recognition for achievement in the main EC (which happens to be debate). BUT the student is just not nearly as socially popular as others on the team? The way our debate team works, it is quite possible that next year's team president may be someone who rarely competes and never advances far in tournaments, but is just a more popular kid in the larger school social context. In fact, I feel that some of the candidates for team president are trying to compensate for lack of actual accomplishments by running for team president. Anyway, can I reassure my kid that it's not a major shortcoming to not be president or veep? </p>
How critical are leadership positions in EC's? (i.e., kid is very accomplished but not very popular)
<p>Would it be better to be an officer? Yes. WIll it kill his chances? No. If he is a national circuit debater who has done well at major tournaments that’s better than being an officer who hasn’t. </p>
<p>Checking your past posts, this may be a D. If we are talking about a D and she’s consistently placing at national circuit tournaments, that’s even better. </p>
<p>This is just my opinion, but I thought I’d weigh in. “Leadership” isn’t just a matter of being captain or president. If a kid is winning achievements and awards, list those. </p>
<p>I’m thinking of my own son who was a great football player but was too much of a goof to be captain material on his high school team. The fact that he played varsity for three years and got all-conference and all-district honors his senior year (thank goodness it was a fall sport) was his proof of “leadership” on the team.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I’m skeptical of how much “leadership” is involved in holding an office in many ECs. D was a little aghast last spring when she came home from the post-tryout organizational meeting for her school’s Orchesis dance team. She thought it was weird that “there are so many seniors on the team this year we had to make up more offices so all of them would have something to put on their college apps.” I’m sure adcom’s realize that goes on, too. </p>
<p>This question is analogous to the one that asked whether it was necessary to have a large number of hours of volunteering. The answer in this case is similar: any pro forma engagement, counting of hours spent, or, I would say, clubs joined or “offices” held, has minimal importance.</p>
<p>Winning awards or commendations, being at the top, doing one-off interesting things that require real initiative (whether public service or self-directed activities) is more important than just putting in your time, even in “leadership” positions.</p>
<p>All-conference and all district honors are very good distinctions. He doesn’t have to be captain.</p>
<p>Being captain of your debate team doesn’t mean much, for example, if you don’t excel in debate. or your team hasn’t won championships or come close. Writing or even editing your school newspaper is good but not as impressive as winning local or state awards for your paper or your own writing. Participating in a local art show is OK but winning an award for your art is more important.</p>
<p>Thanks everybody for the reassuring feedback. It’s sort of disturbing to hear from my D about all the other juniors at her school who hope to be elected to be president or veep of clubs or activities that they aren’t actually dedicated to. Some of them even have plans to quit if they aren’t elected as an officer because they don’t want to waste their time on the underlying activity. D, on the other hand, is really passionate about speech & debate and regardless of whether she is an officer will compete as much as possible, locally and nationally. </p>
<p>And there are other students who find their niche outside of the HS-church youth groups, scouts, summer programs, sports outside of school (such as skating, horse shows), 4-H etc. My D was not an officer of a single club at HS, but participated in our youth group and was a leader of a teen retreat (and we are not even regular church goers!). She also had a summer job over several years and had some managerial responsibilities by her senior year. </p>
<p>As someone else said, you don’t have to hold a position to be a leader. Does she mentor younger tema members? That can be considered leadership. Does she make suggestions to help the team? That can be considered leadership? Managerial responsibilities are leadership. Just think a little creatively, and she will be fine.</p>
<p>To go straight to your question: YES - you’re correct it’s not a big deal if he’s Pres., VP or some low level Asst. Sec. or something. Schools see too many inflated resumes to place a lot of weight on such claims, and furthermore they don’t mean much without any context. </p>
<p>I think my kids got leverage out of their ECs by communicating in clear and compelling language what their activities meant to them, and what they personally brought to the table. If the EC demonstrates passion that’s probably as good as or better than holding a leadership position. </p>
<p>It helps if they have a teacher rec. or other awards., etc., that can back-up any claims. </p>
<p>As for ECs, I think they’re only as valuable as the student can make them sound in the Common App, supplements, and essay. If there’s no life then it won’t amount to much importance. </p>
<p>S1 had no real school related leadership positions to list on an application. He was a member of various honor societies (for awhile) , and played JV football for 2 years. His main EC was a part-time job at a large chain grocery store. He worked many hours and went from bag boy to being the youngest customer service clerk (at 17) in the store. He managed a lot of adult responsibilities there but there’s no real spot on the applications for that kind of leadership.</p>
<p>He was disdainful of all the kids who sat around in the honor society meetings talking about their GPA and class rank ,etc. He quit NHS ,Latin Honor Society and Mu Alpha theta. He was a very good student (top ten class rank) but just didn’t care about the competition for recognition. He was very social with a big group of friends who thrived on mayhem.</p>
<p>At any rate, he only applied to state schools where there were no required essays on “how I lead my team to victory”. He received a NROTC scholarship plus two merit scholarships to his favorite big state u. He is now a Lieutenant (Special Operations) in the U.S. Navy. The kid who had no real leadership roles in h.s. is now a Platoon Commander heading into his second deployment to the Middle East this summer. </p>
<p>Don’t worry about high shool minutia.</p>
<p>PackMom- you should be very proud. All the best to your son on his second deployment.</p>
<p>Thanks Deb ,much appreciated. He makes my heart burst with pride while my hands shake with fear. </p>
<p>I agree with PackMom. Do not worry about this. Such things are what make our kids nervous wrecks. They should be true to their own talents and apply to colleges and universities which they like and which the family believes they can afford.</p>
<p>Plus, EC’s do not matter for colleges much below the elite schools like Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, and West Point. If your child intends to go to a normal, even flagship, state university then EC’s will be irrelevant. Ohio State University does not care about EC’s. Nor does University of Arizona. Same with small liberal arts colleges which are not elite.</p>
<p>True leadership cannot be measured in high school. It can’t. Not even on the football team. Leadership takes time to age; just like good wine.</p>
<p>I was worried about this when D2 was a junior. She had no leadership at all, but strong individual accomplishments in her chosen activities. She ended up getting admitted everyplace she applied, including U of Chicago, Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, and Carleton. And four other schools with very good merit aid. There was one essay along the way that asked something about leadership – she talked about being a leader by example, and a quiet but effective team member. Seemed to work for her…</p>
<p>Packmom, your son is a shining example that life does not end in high school. Thank you and thank you to your son.</p>
<p>@Packmom Please thank your son for me for his service. And kudos to you for raising him and letting him choose his path. </p>
<p>Op,
No leadership required. D had no leadership and attends a top 5 school. Kid should do what kid loves.</p>
<p>@PackMom - I’m so proud of your son and I don’t even know him! Kudos to you for raising him well.</p>
<p>This is a great point being discussed. Let me give you an idea of my thoughts when reviewing (holistic) applications for a major honors college.
Being an officer just instructs me to look for evidence of leadership in the position. Going through HS many years ago and recalibrating after having a child go through high school has taught me that being an officer (class president, captain of sports teams, president of a club) is not necessarily meritorious on its face. Selections can be based on popularity or being the best player. Is being the best really leadership? It could be. The average player or debater that takes underclassman under their wing displays more leadership than the leading scorer running out onto the field first. In some cases, clubs assign multiple presidents, vices etc. to one position. Sometimes, people get assigned to officers positions because no one wanted to do it or the club has 4 people. Some presidents do nothing above the average participant, sometimes less.
So where does the bump come in? How do I evaluate leadership? It comes through in the essay, short answers AND the letters of recommendation. For instance, a class president that attends a monthly meeting but can write nothing about what he/she did as president, nor can his/her letter writers, looks no more impressive than someone who participated in an after school club. The applicant who can describe what he/she accomplished while in office, gets a bump.
Leadership comes from organizing people and could be an indication of character. Accolades such as Eagle Scout or a Girl Scout Gold Award naturally gives credibility to leadership and commitment. Obtaining these awards are multi-year commitments. As someone mentioned above, being promoted to a position of authority in an afterschool job is another. Similarly, students who must serve as a primary caregiver to a younger sibling or grandparent, get a special look too. The key is primary caregiver. Baby sitting once a week or less doesn’t qualify. I, and my colleagues who evaluate applications, keep an eye out for these more unusual ECs. We do our best to judge activity and commitment. We don’t just evaluate on the length of the list or the titles. </p>
<p>Just my two cents</p>
<p>My kids’ Science Olympiad Team used to vote for multiple co-presidents. It was all pretty silly. Everyone on the team had done it all four years, and nearly all of them had won medals at the state level. I agree with luvthej, that often the best way to show leadership is in one of your essays. For example, my younger son who wrote about origami, showed leadership by teaching a class at the senior center. </p>