<p>LC, I'm something of a curmudgeon on "special kids" and I was prepared to be dismayed as I worked back through the thread towards your OP, but, while I disagree with the notion that "everyone is special," your son would stand out in the application pool for <em>me</em>...based on what you've given.</p>
<p>Still would like to see most rigorous schedule, yada yada, so the GC has a point. Unfortunately, some hs sophomores have a hard time conceiving of an event horizon extending beyond later this afternoon.</p>
<p>It's so interesting to watch so many saying what a bad GC this is with bad advice only to have the op come back to defend her. This is a big problem on cc, the cliche posts assuring that no one should worry, there are so many great schools, they will see how special you are--without knowing half the info. Can't people go to friends and family for feel good answers? Isn't the point here to share knowledge based on experience? Why do people bother to post the "don't worry" posts? If they have some actual knowledge, then I can see adding it. Turns out the OP is very pragmatic and just lamenting that there are places a kid like hers won't stand out. That is helpful info to lots of parents and kids, especially those that are new here, but I never understand why so many just feel the need to assure that it must be bad advice.</p>
<p>Loose, the only way your son is ever going to "stand out" is if you give him some room to grow and explore and develop his own interests. Kids who follow the prescribed regimen for success at a school (challenging courses, ECs, etc.) may look great, but they aren't going to "stand out". </p>
<p>Since you say you don't really care about where your son ends up for college, I think its simple: you tell your son that the most competive colleges take student who have taken the most challenging courseload possible, but it is up to him -- if he takes an easier courseload, he can still go to college, but he can forget Harvard. If he is familiar with any particular colleges, you might offer up an example fo the college that he might attend if he takes it easy but keeps his grades up. </p>
<p>Then leave it up to your son -- its his choice. Yes, he may limit his options in the future -- but that's what choices are about. In the end he may be much happier, because he will be under a whole lot less stress. </p>
<p>As far as "standing out".... well sometimes having the free time to pursue your own interests is what leads to the development of a passion that really makes a kid stand out. He will stand out when he deviates from the beaten path. </p>
<p>I would strongly suggest that you find something to entice him away from the video games & t.v., but for the sake of his emotional well being and physical health, not necessariy for college admissions. I mean, just get him to spend more time outdoors or take up a sport or a hobby or get a job. I mean, he isn't going to develop any "passion" sitting on his rear with a game controller in his hand. But in terms of whatever he does explore: he should do be doing it for himself, first.</p>
<p>Wow. I'm sure I speak for parents everywhere when I say that I wish I could think of ANYTHING that would get him away from his video games and TV :-) !</p>
<p>As far as letting him make his own choices .... that's exactly what I am doing. But I (and his school principal/GC) want him to really understand the consequences of taking a less demaning schedule.</p>
<p>So far, his schedule has not been resolved. He's "thinking about it". And I'm butting out. Its fine with me if he goes to one of his safeties. He's got two of them, and I know he'll be happy at both.</p>
<p>I want to communicate something else that the GC said in our meeting.</p>
<p>My son has an older sibling, who she placed in a top 15 national university. Her stats were not as impressive as his. But the GC said she had something special going for her. She was different. She drank up learning. She thought in very unusual ways. She had one, and only one, ec, but she was passionate about it. She wrote one essay about that ec, and a second, very creative, original one, about her favorite artist.</p>
<p>The GC said it was relatively easy to place her, because she did stand out. Not because of her grades, which were decent but relatively low compared to the top students in her class (though she did have good SAT/SAT II scores). But because she was different. And before anyone attacks the GC for comparing him to his sister, she was the first one to apologize for making the comparison. She just said it to help him understand.</p>
<p>He's a typical (very bright, but typical) boy. I'm not faulting her at all for saying his application won't stand out. I've been lurking on these boards for a couple of years, since my daughter went through this process. I pretty much came came to the same conclusion myself.</p>
<p>I'm going to sound like I'm bragging .... but if HE doesn't stand out, who does? I think that's the real reason I wrote the post. And yes, I know its the high school freshman who invented a cure for the common cold, or the 8th grader that built the nuclear accelerator in his basement. Is Harvard/MIT full of these kids? If that's the case, FOR SURE my son doesn't belong there, no matter how bright he is.</p>
<p>If your son really is winning national math contests (not the kind where 10,000 kids are tied for first place), he should be taking the most challenging classes his school offers, otherwise he'll be bored. He may not want to do it now, but he'll thank you later if you make him do it.</p>
<p>Hey Loose Cannon, Are you sure the GC's initials aren't R.T.? (Only Insiders know this reference, LOL.)</p>
<p>I'm with others on no need to get "depressed" over this -- unless one is determined for Ivy admission, in which case, there's never a "sure" thing, & everyone might as well get depressed. However, the only thing I object to in your school's procedure is that the school gets to name the safety. We found that our GC was not necessarily insightful as to what entailed a safety for the really top students -- only for the less outstanding ones. A similar conclusion I can draw about known GC's of friends & acquaintances, too. It seemed that those who know the candidate better & longer (& as people, not just students) were better able to pick safeties which would still be challenging for an achieving student.</p>
<p>Great for you if you feel comfortable & confident about yours. My D was always open to suggestions for Safeties (more needed when a family is new at it, I think), but in the end her & my judgment ended up being more accurate -- & definitely also the judgement of her teachers, who predicted outcomes perfectly.</p>
<p>I don't understand -- captain of the wrestling team and wins a national math competition -- that stands out to me. Plus he is taking a heavy course load and getting excellent grades. What else do you need? Can he write well? Does he have some weak spot/flaw that is not obvious here? It seems like he should be an attractive candidate for any school unless something unexpected happens.</p>
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<p>Are you sure the GC's initials aren't R.T.?</p>
</blockquote>
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<p>I'm not an insider, so I have no idea who R.T. is.</p>
<p>I trust the GC, she's fantastic. As far as she deciding what the safety is ... she has no problem sending applications to any school the student desires (though she will give you a realistic assement about the kids chances of admission). She holds meetings in the kid's junior year to review their options (my son is unusual in that he has had 2 meetings with her already, but I'm assuming that's because he shows promise and the school wants to work with him).</p>
<p>If there are several safeties that she can suggest, she gives her blessings to send applications to all of them. But she insists that all kids send out an application to at least one safety where he/she is guaranteed admission.</p>
<p>In our case, that's not hard. We live in NY, and CUNY is an excellent safety. Every kid, without exception, applies to CUNY, even if she feels the kid won't get in. In fact, she won't even send out other applications (except for ED), if the kid didn't fill out his CUNY application. If she feels the kid won't get in, she has them apply to community college in addition to CUNY (most of our kids do get into CUNY, though not necessarily their first choice school in the CUNY system). She has a 100% admission rate using this system, and no kid is left behind.</p>
<p>At one time, I would have been so bold as to say Binghamton was a safety for him. But now I would never say that. </p>
<p>I adore our GC. She doesn't make any promises. She gets results. And she's a great person. I just hope that no other school steals her away or (gasp) she decides to do private counselling before its my sons turn.</p>
<p>I agree with mstee. At my S's HS, an inner city public, few, if any, kids have your son's credentials, 16 were accepted at Stanford alone, and about 100 out of 405 were admitted to top 20 colleges (including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Chicago, MIT, Cal Tech, etc.) and LAC's, and most to tier 1 colleges (90% went to college). I find it hard to believe your son will have much difficulty finding a great school.</p>
<p>His weak spot is that he's a normal 16 year old and wants to slack off. </p>
<p>He is very blessed. But he's not uber-student. He's normal (albeit very smart).</p>
<p>He's going to college. I'm not worried about that. I'm raising the larger issue that depresses me ... why does a kid like this not stand out EVERYWHERE? (its a rhetorical question, no need to answer). </p>
<p>I love him so much, and I'm so proud of him, that is depresses me that there are going to be some misguided adcoms that are not going to see in his application what I see in him. Well, if they don't see it, its their loss. Some lucky school will get him.</p>
<p>I agree with you, LC, on the issue of the Publics as Safeties. What I was actually talking about was the selection of certain Privates -- which vary so much by style & by programs. Not that Publics like SUNY & CUNY & U.C. don't vary: they do. But the distinctions between private institutions can be just huge. So, as many others have pointed on other threads, a Safety is not just about the selectivity or the acceptance rate, it's about the reasonable fit for the student. Obviously you're happy with the judgment of your GC, which is lucky. (Because many families & many students are not, with theirs!)</p>
<p>The "insider" reference is to a controversial author who stated -- not implied, that unless a student was almost literally an Olympic athlete, inventor, published author. professional musician, or celebrated researcher, he or she could basically forget admission to any very selective college or U. This was stated in various ways, often, in the book -- with examples given of acceptably Extreme achievement. That statement has not proven to be true. While such colleges want students who distinguish themselves in some way, that would be distinguish with a small d -- not a Congressional Medal of Honor, or the equivalent.</p>
<p>I think that it would be helpful to reframe this thread. What this is about is the extraordinary evolution of the standard of achievement for today's kids. When I went to school a standout kid did well academically and on the SATs and was student body president or a star athlete. Today, students develop their own community service projects, intern with college professors, go to national competitions in things that didn't use to have national competitions, become a champion this or that outside of school, etc. We have been raising the bar in an effort to provide more and better for our kids and they are embracing it. Maybe out of a competitive nature, maybe for the love of it, maybe because they have grown up in a play-date world instead of running unfettered until called in to dinner. We have provided better pathways for all kids to achieve, advanced classes are widely available, and there are multiple opportunities for all types of achievement. We are reaping what we have sown. You can look at this positively and be bowled over by the extraordinary accomplishments of today's high school student. You can worry that we have lost something. You would be right either way.</p>
<p>LC, now you've posed a different question: why doesn't a kid like your son stand out everywhere? </p>
<p>Well, there are a lot of amazing kids out there. Browse some of the admitted/rejected threads and look at some of the students who didn't get into Stanford/Yale/Harvard/etc. </p>
<p>If there were one thing I could do to give parents a realistic framework, I'd start there. Only then would I show the flip side, that everyone who does get into that level of college isn't necessarily an uber-student. The truth is quite a bit more complex than a simple black & white sketch.</p>
<p>Why doesn't a kid like your son stand out everywhere?</p>
<p>Well, a kid like your son stands out most everywhere. Just not at the same 10-20 schools where all the other standouts flock to apply. When most of the standouts stand in the same place, it takes more to stand out.</p>
<p>Also, geography plays a role. If you're in New York City or the metropolitan area in general, there's a huge pool of extremely qualified applicants coming out of schools like Stuy and Bronx Science, Great Neck, Chappaqua, Short Hills, etc. All these kids are competing against one another as "New York kids" in the eyes of colleges. I'm sure your son would stand out more if you were located in Nebraska.</p>
<p>Actually, your son sounds a lot like my daughter. She's definitely smart, high-scoring on standardized tests, and has always loved to read, etc. But she also loves video games. She's no intellectual, as she would be the first to say, and has resisted taking the most rigorous course load at her high school. Will there be a good college for her that's the right fit? I have no doubt. Will she get in? Yes!</p>
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<p>But the GC said she had something special going for her. She was different. She drank up learning. She thought in very unusual ways. She had one, and only one, ec, but she was passionate about it. She wrote one essay about that ec, and a second, very creative, original one, about her favorite artist.<<</p>
<p>His weak spot is that he's a normal 16 year old and wants to slack off.<<</p>
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<p>The difference is passion--and without being passionate and being able to express that feeling on the paper application, it may be hard to come across as "special."</p>
<p>Ellemenope notes a good point as well. I'll go ahead and be tactless: the really top candidates may sometimes <em>want</em> to slack off but they don't.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with that. It has been worrying me. Not much, because he has good options, and he will go to college.</p>
<p>He actually is very passionate about wrestling. That's why he became the captain as a sophomore. </p>
<p>The math competition he entered as a lark. He did it in order to skip 2 periods at school. I didn't even know he entered until he came home and told me he won. Now his school is pressuring him to join the math team. He has absolutely zero interest in that. I am certain that, unless they make it very easy for him to join (e.g. let him cut class) he's not going to. They actually did tell me yesterday that they are going to try to work something out for him next year.</p>
<p>The design competition I forced him to enter. "Because it would look great on a college resume." I'm guilty. Its still not over, he still has to compete again next week. I know he would be happier to forget the whole thing. Now his school is also pressuring him. Its good PR for them.</p>
<p>Post Script. My son filled out his schedule for next year. We collectively convinced him to take the most challenging schedule. We won the battle. But I don't feel happy. I feel a little sad. I feel like we took the decision away from him. Is it really his decision when everyone is pressuring him to super-achieve? He just left for school, and he seemed a little resigned.</p>
<p>He's not ready for this pressure. He's not mature enough. I wish I didn't feel as if we needed to keep his options open. I wish I could be sure that he wouldn't regret, down the road, that he didn't try to get into a highly selective school. </p>
<p>I'm so sad. Why can't the wrestling, which he loves, be enough? Why isn't it enough for him to be a good kid? Where did I read that teen depression is up? It's our fault.</p>