<p>"Its just depressing to me that someone could look at him and think he's not special. I'm sure the GC thinks he's special. All of our kids are special!"</p>
<p>Going slightly off-topic here, but I've been hearing the "all our kids are special" mantra since my daughter's preschool days. I think one of the reasons the college ap process is so painful is that schools have been working overtime to boost all kids' self esteem, and that's why they have so many awards and so many team captains, etc. Then suddenly kids hit senior year and reality strikes with college rejections. For many of these kids, it's the first time they've ever been told 'no' or turned down. Your GC may have decided to be brutal in explaining that reality to students. And then protecting herself from angry parents when some of those top students don't get accepted senior year.</p>
<p>"It almost seems like in the eyes of a college admissions officer, he (and everyone else) is a piece of meat. And that's what is depressing. All of our kids are special. Why can't they just be kids? Why can't my son study what he likes without being penalized that he's not taking "the most challenging schedule offerred by the school"."</p>
<p>Ironically, your son may not be penalized as much as a girl would. Go look at the thread on the Kenyon admissions dean.</p>
<p>And to get snarky here, my response is -- why is my daughter, who does take the most challenging schedule over four years, being penalized because she's not a great standardized test taker and so may not ace a six-hour test? We all have our complaints about the process, which is clearly not perfect. And as we know, even kids who do everything right (most challenging schedule, high scores, high grades, national EC) get rejections.</p>
<p>I love my kids so much. I'm sure that every parent on this forum feels the same way about their kids. I just want to see my son happy. Now, and down the road. As we all want.</p>
<p>Its just that my desire to see him happy "down the road" is not making him happy now. He doesn't understand delayed gratification. He's a kid.</p>
<p>Well, a kid like your son stands out most everywhere. Just not at the same 10-20 schools where all the other standouts flock to apply. When most of the standouts stand in the same place, it takes more to stand out.
</p>
<p>Bingo! With his achievements so far, your son will stand out at many schools. But not at the most selective ones. In fact, junior year is the year where prospective college applicants need to step up to the plate, not slack off. I'm sure that once fall starts, your son will be comfortable with his classes. With his abilities, he should not have to work extra hard to do well; however, if he took too easy classes, he might perish of boredom.</p>
<p>
[quote]
All of our kids are special. Why can't they just be kids? Why can't my son study what he likes without being penalized that he's not taking "the most challenging schedule offerred by the school".
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LC, you sound like a loving mom with a terrific son -- congratulations!</p>
<p>I understand your frustration that your son's many accomplishments don't necessarily guarantee admission to the most selective colleges -- but that's reality. Most of us have been or are currently in that same boat. There ARE kids out there who take the most rigorous courses, maintain high GPA's and test scores and have incredible EC's as well.</p>
<p>I think that something IS lost when our kids, typically bright and talented, are boxed into a particular path in order to reach the gold medal of admissions. The problem is that the world is more competitive than it was when we were kids.</p>
<p>So, you and your family have a choice. Your son can stay on this path, with the hope (but not the guarantee) of gaining admittance to a top school. The rigorous courses your GC suggests are probably a requirement, but are not sufficient. Or you can cut him loose to pursue something he loves, and hope that that will set him apart. Most 16 boys that I know will just rediscover their passion for computer/video games or Texas Hold 'em!!! </p>
<p>There is no easy answer, but I do think it comes down to your family values. Do you value the selectivity of the college more than other aspects of high school or adolescence? Some parents feel that our kids will have a better life if they attend a name school. Or do you want him to find his own path, at the risk of not getting into such a school? I know there are kids who have a HS experience that is outside the box (just see the thread about UCSD) and have terrific results. </p>
<p>For me, the most important aspect of these years is maintaining a strong relationship with your son, and helping him to find balance in his life. We all probably know stories of kids who've sold their high school years for a name college window decal, and end up anxious and/or depressed. But I don't think you can force it -- if it's not his idea, it probably will backfire in the end.</p>
<p>I've read through the whole thread, and i'm having trouble seeing what the problem is. At first, it did sound like a problem with the GC as it was presented by the OP, but the poster says not, the GC is great.</p>
<p>So then the complaint is admissions committees who are saying the poster's son isn't good enough--totally hypothetically, since he obviously hasn't applied anywhere yet.</p>
<p>Then it comes down to pressures on these kids, but where are they coming from? In this case, we have a parent who feels like she's making her son take courses and enter contests he doesn't want to, in order to get into the "best" college, and a GC who's reinforcing that.</p>
<p>It's obvious that he's got loads of potential, but if he's not motivated to be the "best" academically, while still doing fine, why is so much pressure be exerted on him? He could take his wrestling ability and his fine record and go to tons of great schools and be happy--he doesn't have to be an academic star to do so.</p>
<p>I'm not convinced that the presssure on him is coming from the admissions system. I think that this may be a case of loving the kid you have, not the kid you want him to be, not meaning that you don't love him, of course you do, but it sounds to me like you're reflecting a lot of expectations on him, but blaming the outside system instead.</p>
<p>I personally don't care where he goes to college (so long as he stays home :-) ! ) Seriously, I truly think this whole process is insane. </p>
<p>But I get caught up in the insanity too. I have doubts. Will he be better off at a name school? I don't know. Will he grow up between now and high school graduation and want to go to a name school? I don't know. Is be making bad decisions now because he is immature? I think yes, but it still make me feel bad to force him to be a little more responsible.</p>
<p>I get upset with him sometimes because he is so blase about his gifts. I had this discussion just last week with him and a friend of his who was visiting. The friend, a current junior just entering this fray, was telling me how he would kill to be in my son's position. Not only because of his grades/awards. But because he gets these grades/awards with no effort. And I mean that. No effort. He never studies. He sits in the back of most classes, even those that he likes, and dreams. I told both of them that my son is blessed, and its unfortunate that he doesn't appreciate the gifts that G-d gave him. That he needs to find something to challenge him, because life is challenging, even if it doesn't seem that way to my son now.</p>
<p>He'll have terrific results at wherever he ends up. He's a good kid. He's a sweetie, which is more important to me than his grades/awards. And I think that's the thing that's going to serve him best in life.</p>
<p>Focus on his excellence, not on whether he will be a bright enogh star for Harvard or Williams. It sounds as though he is pursuiing his interests (wrestling captain) and exercising his considerable intelligence and creativity. Trying to groom him further may make him even more stellar but it may not make him a happier or better person--or get him into a "brass ring" school. </p>
<p>Having sent two children though competitive private school and on to college ("good" ones), I have learned that excellence and involvement can carry you just so far--and no matter what happens, there will almost always be someone with a longer list of more stunning achievements and/or really good connections and major donation potential. For you and your son, the keys are doing his best, being aware of the realities and arbitrariness of the game, and trying to avoid the sesee that all is lost of you don't get into an Ivy or a top-three LAC. </p>
<p>In reading some of the results threads this spring it occurs to me that what was a near safety for a really good student/kid five years ago is almost a reach now, so planning for the future is highly uncertain in terms of specific schools anyway. I think the only way to get through high school happily as a parent or student is just to pursue both excellence and personal interests and know that great options will extend well beyond the most obvious glittering prizes.</p>
<p>LC, I hear two things from you. The first is disappointment that the GC didn't assure you that your son is a shoo-in at any college in the country. That is a hard one to swallow for many parents. The second thing I hear is concern on your part that your son is wasting his talent and may not maintain the GPA/rigorous course load he needs in order to get into the colleges you think he'd be happiest at. A big concern for gifted kids is that when they don't have to work to learn, they never learn how to overcome challenges when the material is more difficult. Many bright kids I know are able to skate by a little in high school. But no matter how smart a student is, they will eventually encounter a class where they have to really apply themselves. Getting good grades without any effort is not good for kids, in my opinion. That's a good reason to keep him in the more challenging classes.</p>
<p>I have a different perspective on some of the issues facing your son. Some of it has less to do with college as with what would happen next year if he were to take easy classes. Already, he gets by with very little work, daydreams, never studies, by your account. This suggests to me that he is insufficiently challenged and is bored. This happens to a lot of smart kids. It happened to mine. The solution for him was to give him truly challenging classes. His complaints about school disappeared completely. You could ask your son to compare the difficulty of the more challenging classes you and the GC have urged him to take and the regular CP classes. Chances are, the difference is like night and day. If he is already bored, he would tune out completely.
The second issue follows from the first. I have been taken to task for reporting something I head some admission officers discussing, to the effect that they did not want to admit someone who looked like an underachiever. But I believe the admission officers' concern is appropriate. There are lots of struggling freshmen at many colleges. Many of the students are overwhelmed by the amount of work they are expected to do. They spent their high school years coasting and doing well by sheer innate ability but did not develop good study habits and self-discipline. In college, their smarts are not enough to carry them. </p>
<p>My main concern, though, is for your son to have the right kind of courses. And even without college admission being a consideration, I would suggest more rather than less challenging courses.</p>
<p>Your son looks great!
Once a kid has made it over the bar of grades, scores, ec's, (and your son has), his job is to express his passion and individuality to the adcoms. If he can display his uniqueness in 500-750 words, he will have a lot of great choices.</p>
<p>Sounds like you have a wonderful and special kid. But the GC was just trying to tell you the way it is in terms of admission to colleges. As long as you are aware that many colleges, and they include places well below the level of HYP, rank a rigorous curriculum as the very first priority in factors affecting acceptance, then there are no right or wrong answers here. To many in college admissions, no ECs, special awards or activities outside of class compensate for a challenging course load. I think your GC sees that your S has the potential to do honors work and may feel that he is selling himself short, even though you and he do not necessarily see it that way. </p>
<p>But if you are looking at this more philosophically and figure he'll end up happy wherever he goes, then there's no debating that. No school would want you to take away the message that your child is not special. What the GC wants to convey sounds pretty cut and dried - that your son may simply not be as competitive an applicant if he is not going to be taking the most challenging classes available to him at his school. I also think that is why she is encouraging him to do something more to stand out. In terms of selective college admissions I believe she is correct that he may need something more to compensate for the likelihood that his courseload will be perceived as weak, especially because you are in a competitive school. Sounds like an excellent counselor to me, one who doesn't want your son to close those doors without thinking it through. </p>
<p>I agree with marite in that it may be overthinking this to feel as if your son would be under as much pressure as he imagines he would be in those honors courses. In many schools there is a big difference between honors and non-honors classes. Many schools, and again, not just the top 10 or 20, would rather see a lower grade in an honors class than a higher one in standard.</p>
<p>I think the confusion and some of the mixed reactions you are receiving stem from your OP. Your listing of your son's excellent stats as opposed to the GC's dire warnings made people assume that the GC was an extremist. The wisdom of getting caught up in the whole college admissions rat race is something that many people would have no trouble agreeing with, though, some may point out the value of encouraging, but not forcing, your son to take on the challenge. </p>
<p>If after your son has considered all of this and still chooses to follow a different path, no one can say he (or you) is wrong or any less special.</p>
<p>I think you were right to pressure him into the tougher schedule. Kids at that age don't always have the ability to make the right decisions, and your decision now will likely leave him with MORE options later when he will be calling the shots.</p>
<p>The TV and video games ARE an issue. I look at my many siblings - half of whom raised their kids without TVs in the house and the other half with TVs. The former raised more interesting and accomplished kids. Period. But I can't get rid of my TV. My kids are smart, but they'd study more, read more, and do more interesting things if there were no TVs in the house. End of rant.</p>
<p>That is a concern of mine. He is a self-admitted underachiever (with a 95 average).</p>
<p>I suppose he'll get excellent recommendations fro his teachers when the time comes. He only has to pick two, and he'll pick two that will give him great recomendations. Its the GC's recommendation that worries me. She has a great reptuation with the colleges ... which she maintains by being brutally honest. He's got a lot of competetion in his school alone, fantastic kids, let alone every other school. If a college is having trouble deciding between two students, they will often call her and ask her which kid she recommends. </p>
<p>What can she say about a great, sweet, smart kid, but one she has to convince to challenge himself? I hope she says nice things. Because there are a lot of nice things to say. But she did have to meet with him twice to convince him to challenge himself and take more rigorous courses. I hope that doesn't reflect badly on him.</p>
<p>And I wish I didn't care as much. I halfway wish I never found this forum! I wouldn't be such a lunatic.</p>
<p>I would not worry about what the GC's or teachers' recs will say. I'm sure none of them would want to torpedo your son's chances of getting into great colleges. I am really glad that the GC cares enough about your son to meet with him twice and convince him to take the appropriate courses. Many GCs would not bother. </p>
<p>I really think that the key issue is for your son to be sufficiently challenged to avoid boredom and for him to develop good work habits. </p>
<p>From what I have learned, admission officers have to strike a balance between admitting students who have achieved high by dint of working extra hard and those who have achieved as high by doing very little. The first lot may struggle in college because their hard work can carry them only so far. MIT's rec form asks teachers to state whether the student has earned the grade by dint of hard work, memorization, grade consciousness or brilliance, with the unstated assumption that brilliance is more desirable than the others. The second lot may also struggle in college, but because they do not have good work habits.</p>
<p>LooseCannon, I would guess that your son's GC is accustomed to working with 15-16 boys. There is a lot of research about developmental differences between boys and girls, and I would imagine that it's not uncommon for sophomores to have trouble seeing the big picture. The goal right now should be to keep him challenged and to find some outside activities (probably math and wrestling -- he doesn't need a bunch) to help him to grow into the young man you know he can be. It's not that unusual for boys to have the light go on during Junior year -- given some other threads about how girls almost have to overachieve these days, college admissions people must see many boys who don't get too excited by school until after soph year. You just don't want him to fall by the wayside as he matures.</p>
<p>Captain of the wrestling team as a 10th grader? How does that not stand out?</p>
<p>Your GC is missing something. Your son is a standout student, and obviously leader--coaches don't make any old sophomore captains of teams. He has very diverse interests (architecture, math, wrestling). He's on the right track (grade-wise, PSAT, SAT II are nearly identical to what I have, and I got into Stanford, despite "looking like every other Asian applicant" according to a CC at my school). There are scores of colleges that would love to have him.</p>
<p>*She said he doesn't stand out. He looks like every other bright kid. That he needs to do something next year to make himself stand out from the pack.</p>
<p>He just wants to be a kid. And you know something, I just want him to be a kid, too. I think he's so special (of course, he's mine). Its hard for me to understand how colleges won't think he's special. *</p>
<p>I have a feeling the GC wants your son to apply to and be accepted at "prestigous" schools so that she can add that school to the list when "colleges accepted at" are quoted for prospective parents</p>
<p><insert eyeroll="" here=""></insert></p>
<p>Colleges are all too aware of when kids are being packaged.
Help him explore his interests, support him in enojying high school now- not starting to freak out about college before he is even old enough to drive.
So many great schools out there- and he may even want to take a gap year- both my girls are/did and it really doesn't make sense to pay all that money for college if they are not going to get as much out of it as they can.
But you can't force them-</p>