<p>Pizzagirl, I have no problem with grades (or salaries) be public for everyone. It may not be ‘my business’ if a bunch of kids get an A in AP Calc BC but all of a sudden it is my business if magically most of said kids are tutored by none other than their own teacher (or a colleague who also teaches the class at the same school and has access to materials like old tests)</p>
<p>Or if a visiting prof from a decidedly male chauvinistic society gives all the females much lower grades…</p>
<p>Or if a group of four young women receive a B for group project and the class over far worse work done by a team of four young men because the prof is TG and is not very friendly with female students…</p>
<p>Or because the (ethnic) TA leaked the test to his (ethnic but not visually obvious to identify) compatriots and they all answered the test in 10 min and walked out…</p>
<p>turbo93–I have to say I agree with you seeing exactly some of this go on at our high school—mainly with one particular teacher, who also happens to be the NHS adviser and the NHS is comprised of 3/4ths girls yet the class ranks don’t match that stat. Girls with much lower stats and no or few EC’s or volunteer time get in over say, boys with valedictorian after their name in the graduation program with a full slate of quality EC’s and volunteer experience…</p>
<p>So what is wrong with soccer and learning camps? Sounds fine to me. I don’t understand, would a different sport be “better”, would you think differently if this child went to camp for art or music? </p>
<p>As for the lack of part time jobs, I know many students (my own included) who did not work at part time jobs in HS. Some kids do and some don’t.</p>
<p>My son asked us to NOT tell anyone where he applied. He’s applied to a few Ivys but knows that it is a “crapshoot” that although he has the numbers SAT/GPA, he is just another BWRK (bright well rounded kid) who may or may not get in when the acceptance rates are single digits. He plays everything close to the vest and tells me that the kids don’t compare scores. I know that he had a lunch bet with a friend over who would get a better SAT score (friend won with a 2400 but swore my son to secrecy)but that is the extent of it. We live in an area that is the stereotypical Ivy bubble with nearly 10% of the class applying to the local Ivy school though only 5/50 typically get in…
Last night I told my ds what another friend scored on his SAT (1500/1600) and he wanted to know how I got that information? The friend’s mother must have told a friend of hers who posted it on Facebook…TMI…
Our eyes were opened 5 years ago when someone close to us got rejected by the Ivys despite being Val with highest GPA ever at the school, very good scores, captain of two sports and lots of volunteer hours…If he got rejected, it could happen to anyone. We listen to parents who are sure their kids are “getting in” and just nod our heads. If our son gets in, great, if not he’ll make the best of it whenever he goes…</p>
<p>SteveMA, or the NHS, might be like at my school. The brown-nosing girls join, the boys say they have better things to do. My boys both qualified for NHS, but didn’t see the point in joining.</p>
<p>While wealthy Hispanics from South America might not be what we are thinking of when we think URM, nevertheless they are probably bringing some kind of diversity to the schools to which they apply.</p>
<p>That girl who “only” went to writing camp? Maybe she’s a really fabulous writer.</p>
<p>FallGirl–because she was in soccer in high school with no outside soccer, never made the varsity team and on paper showed she wasn’t very committed to playing and everything else she did centered around studying—along with everything else that was mentioned…</p>
<p>It’s possible that she couldn’t afford the travel team (it’s expensive, one of my kids did 10 seasons) and perhaps not making varsity was a function of school politics (my older child’s HS wrote the book on politics). And as another poster pointed out, perhaps she was a good writer.
My point is that what looks like not impressive EC’s to one person strikes someone else very differently. I know people who rolled their eyes when I said my D was on the school dance team (as well as a studio dance team). In their view, only team sports such as football, baseball, lacrosse , etc counted. Other people I know look down their noses at the kids who are involved in team sports because they “know” that the nicer and smarter kids run cross country or swim. Some people value a student’s participation in the arts while others make snide comments about “band nerds” or “drama nerds”.
I know students who did few EC’s who did very well in college admissions and vice versa. Not for me to judge.</p>
<p>There’s nothing “wrong” with soccer and learning camps. Heck, my kid did plenty of that stuff. But keep in mind that, at the schools CCers care about most, the admissions office receives ~30,000 applications and assigns them to a bunch of twenty-something, jaded, cynical, borderline-alcoholic admissions officers* for review – and they’re going to read two dozen apps from soccer-playing CTY/TIP/EPGY participants by 4:00 PM this afternoon. </p>
<p>That’s why we have no idea “how HE got in.” We can’t know what makes quiet, outwardly-bookish teenagers tick or what hobbies they’ve been pursuing for years without telling most of their classmates. What stands out in HS is typically loud and gregarious. But introverts with passion also find their way to success on college campuses. </p>
<p>This competitive streak that occurs in some communities is so harmful for many students.</p>
<p>My older son got into several ivies. He was one of those really bright kids who hardly studied, but had many EC’s that he got involved in because he was passionate about them, not to boost his resume. He was VERY lucky to get into the school of his choice, given how competitive the acceptances are. However, he did NOT apply there because of the prestige. He really needed an environment that finally would be academically challenging. He is still slacking off to some extent, but cruising along with good grades, and engaging in his passions in terms of classes and ECs he loves. </p>
<p>His younger brother is also very bright. Top 10% of his class, good scores, good ECs, well-rounded interests. However, we would never consider having him apply to an ivy level school. He would not get in, and if he did, the rigor would be too much for him. There are thousands of other wonderful schools out there. What I don’t get is all the parents of kids similar to him who push their kids and expect them to go to ivy level schools. That is the level of pushing/competitiveness that is unnecessary.</p>
<p>FallGirl—again, that is ALL she had on her resume and applied to Ivy’s and other top 20 schools and that is IT. Sorry if you don’t like it but it is what it is. It’s not because it was soccer but because she wasn’t very good and neither was the team and she still didn’t make varsity. Money was not an issue, however crying in your alumni interviews was…along with not being able to make eye contact with someone because you have no social skills, etc., etc., etc. It’s the whole package here…why are you picking out one little thing and making it an issue…</p>
<p>In the cases I am familiar with, I doubt it. They are pretty all-American midwestern kids, with one all-American midwestern parent. They may be “interesting” because one parent speaks another language or because they get to go to Buenos Aires in the summer, but I don’t think the perspective they add is necessarily more worthwhile than any other. There are kids whose grandparents were Holocaust survivors, or who lived on a boat for five years, or have overcome childhood cancer or who have been raised by a single mother who is disabled. Nothing gives them the automatic second look that these other kids have. And I would hate to think that a privileged child of an immigrant might displace a true URM in the admissions process. That doesn’t seem fair.</p>
<p>Plain and simple: the people gossiping don’t know what is in anyone’s application. This is usually exacerbated by not grasping the level of competition for HYPSM etc. </p>
<p>I’m sure in my case, admittance to one of the schools coveted on CC in the early round surprised some people who know me. People think I’m an average student, and it’s easier to let them think that. I tease my classmates that I get to leave school at 1 and if I imply a little bit that I go home and sleep or otherwise waste time, what’s the harm? They don’t need to know that I spend my time taking college math classes. They talk about how involved they are at school and I mention that I’m not in any clubs or school activities. They walk away thinking I have no ECs - but I’ve spent 30 hours a week for 5 years on a completely outside of school activity that I’ve become highly accomplished at. Who cares? It’s none of their business. Many, many students I’ve come across are highly averse to anyone more “qualified” or “smarter” or whatever. So I just fly under the radar.</p>
<p>Everyone knows what the “big man on campus” is doing all the time. It’s the low profile students who’s acceptances come “out of nowhere” that rustle peoples jimmies. Keeping quiet about stuff you do is often assumed to mean that you don’t do anything. And it’s not difficult to let that assumption slide. Seriously, the gossiping is useless.</p>
True, but we don’t get to decide what’s fair. Each year on cc we see questions on threads like “I am 1/4 (or 1/8 or what have you) <<<<fill in=”" the=“” urm=“” of=“” your=“” choice=“”>>>>. Can I check that (URM) box on the application?" The response is usually to recommend that the applicant choose whatever population they self identify with. But we all know that students will comonly select what may give them a hook, and why not? Sure, its not “fair”, but neither is the college application process as a whole.</fill></p>
<p>Remember the posts of parents who get their kids to say in their essays or on their apps that they are first generation undergraduates in the US (ie claiming they are the first in their family to attend college in the US) because they don’t want to acknowledge that the parents have advanced degrees and attended grad/professional school in the US (but are college educated elsewhere) and want to “look like” they are first generation students. Thats really smarmy, IMO.</p>
<p>Yes, the comment has been made and heard in my community. My kids were part of them too, as some of them did get into reach schools. With one, it was more like, “We all know how HE got in” as he was an athlete, but those in the athletic community often wondered how he got into some selective schools, as his academic profile was not known to be so stellar, or his interest in academics. My one son was foolish enough to share his very low test scores and was told outright by many fellow students that he was not going to get in anywhere, something that really shook him up. My other son’s academic prowess was very low key and it was very much a surprise that he had applied, much less get accepted to some highly selective schools. One acceptance even floored me. </p>
<p>The comment is often heard here as I am in Catholic high school world right now that has a lot of kids applying to Catholic colleges, many of which are undersubscribed to by males. I’ve seen some relatively high stat girls, especially some very good students get WLed, deferred and even turned down while some guys who are barely C-level get accepted. Yeah. Need to keep those ratios , I guess, but it is pretty blatant. </p>
<p>What do you mean by “true URM”? URM simply means Under Represented Minority. It doesn’t mean challenged, poor, first generation, privileged, Hispanic, AA, necessarily. Though URMs could be any of those. They can also be Asian, Moslem, from some foreign country that a college would like to see represented. It’s just a term to describe a group that is not represented in numbers that a college would like. An Asian kid would be a URM at a school that hardly has any, for example, and absolutely, yes, privileged kids get URM preferable status. I can guarantee you that, as I personally know a number who have. Absolutely, some privileged children of immigrants could displace another URM in the admissions process in many situations, as a primary concern of a lot of selective colleges that look at these things, is whether the kid is adequately prepared for the rigor of the college. Those who are admitted as someone who has overcome challenges are a whole other category. I know a number of kids right now who are quite privileged, full pay kids who are holding the URM card as that is what they are at certain schools to which they are applying. And yes, they are aware that it will help them in terms of the admissions to those schools. Not a doubt in the world.</p>
<p>The discussion that is starting on this thread about URM is interesting, and certainly crosses over to some other discussions. It is so complicated and such a sad situation. It is sad that it breeds so much resentment. It is sad that someone who is a URM is presumed to have gotten the boost because of it. It is sad that colleges feel compelled to meet quotas to prove they are meeting some need.</p>
<p>One of the dilemmas in our community that has created a lot of soul-searching re: URMs and college admission is associated with adoption. There happen to be a lot of internationally adopted children in our community. And these hispanic, Asian, or African-American kids understandably mark an honest representation of their race on application forms. However, they are raised in white, middle class families, presumably devoid of the “cultural” contribution that URMs are supposed to offer to the college community. The Asian children who were adopted often claim they feel at a disadvantage. And when the others get in to colleges where many other “white” kids rarely gain admission, their accomplishments are sadly diminished in spite of getting in where they want.</p>
<p>So I look at it as: it is what it is. This is where our country’s prejudice has gotten us. There are attempts to right a wrong system that seem unfair at times. It has made it “harder” for my kids, who are not URMs or first gen, or recruited athletes or legacies, but that’s the way it is and that’s what they have to work with. They have had many other privileges and if this is the worst challenge they have to face, they will be very fortunate.</p>
My boys both qualified for NHS, but didn’t see the point in joining.</p>