<p>Fluffy, we weren’t using our entire family income…we were using ONE parent’s income…it was not hard to use ONE wage earners income to pay for college costs. Not at all. </p>
<p>Thank you calmom! I also read the thread title differently than fluffy.</p>
<p>Personally, I never felt a need to justify the amount I spent on college for either of my kids…to anyone. </p>
<p>And for,the record, neither of our kids chose the college with the lowest net cost of their acceptances. </p>
<p>fluffy’s point is spot on. It’s impossible to tell just by looking what someone’s priorities or financial constraints are. Maybe Great Aunt Agnes died and left you a Jaguar. Maybe the grandparents have offered to pay for all the grandkids’ college. Also, no one starts a family thinking “I am not going to be as successful as I hope to be” or “I am sure my spouse and I will be divorced in 10 years, leaving us both with major financial hardship.” People who have saved for college successfully should be happy about their accomplishment, but no one should judge those whose personal situations they only view from afar.</p>
<p>Maybe “justify” is the wrong word. I don’t interpret the OP’s question as being judgmental in tone - in the sense of convincing someone else that it was the right decision- but rather asking for the cost/benefit analysis each person when through. </p>
<p>And I can’t fathom how any intelligent person would NOT go through a cost/benefit analysis for a major expenditure – but I certainly do understand how the relative ease of coming up with the money would impact the amount of time and effort put into that analysis, as well as what factors might be relevant. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My comments were in reply to comments that PG had (which is why I first quoted that). Something about being sad that a wealthy family decided not to pay for the elite school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Those people who have been around the forum long enough know that a thread, especially a 25 page one, has sub-themes that develop. You can see one of those themes in all the comments about how the wealthy were spending their money (full pay, fancy cars, etc).</p>
<p>That is why I first quoted PG comment, and then referred to “that discussion” as opposed to “this thread”.</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation --sorry I misinterpreted your post.</p>
<p>I agree that I do not think a rich person should be obligated to fund an elite college, nor do I believe that the failure to fund the elite choice necessarily is shortchanging the child. </p>
<p>Not every kid is meant for Harvard, even if they have the stats to get in. </p>
<p>No problem.
It is hard when these threads take all sort of twists and turns and you want to dive into a point.
Then you find out that that was already covered on page 12 or 16 or…geesh…or you go away for dinner and come back and realize someone commented…but it is now 4 pages later and there is a new twist…</p>
<p>I read the original question as justifying the expense to herself, as in ‘How do I decide it is worth it and pay the extra.’ </p>
<p>And I think that can only be done on a family by family basis, student by student basis. Upthread, someone promised to pay for MIT, but what if the student didn’t get into MIT but did get into CalTech, or GaTech, would the ‘promise’ still hold? Would she have to justify (to herself, not to others) if the money was worth it for the next notch down (in her son’s mind) from MIT? Would it be worth Purdue?</p>
<p>The OP who posed the question is a high school junior. </p>
<p>I read the question as either being, “how can I convince my parents to pay for me to attend my dream school?” or “should I even bother trying to convince my parents to pay for my dream school?” The OP would be now in the process of drawing up an application list, perhaps planning some college visits over the summer. So the question might also be: “is there any point in my even applying to my dream school?”</p>
<p>As a senior heading to UCSB Honors in the Fall (for those unaware, it is definitely not the flagship, but a respected mid-tier UC), I’d like to offer some insight into the decision from a student’s perspective. About a month ago, I posted on here frantically trying to rationalize my desire to attend Barnard College at a pricetag of $32k/year, with an estimated total of $38-40k with cost of travel from Los Angeles to New York. UCSB will be costing me about $26k/year, and I have a high likelihood of graduating in 3 years because of the UC system’s leniency in accepting my AP scores of 3 and above (of which I have about 7-9 depending on this year’s results). This means that Barnard would have drained my entire college fund, while UCSB would leave me with either almost $50k or more leftover depending on whether I graduate early or not. </p>
<p>There was a huge sacrifice on my part in “choosing” to attend UCSB over Barnard. By all standards of making a college decision, Barnard was the perfect school for me. I fell in love during my visit, it has the liberal arts type education I desperately crave after a huge public high school, the vast internship opportunities of Manhattan which would benefit me in my law/finance/humanities interests. The relationship with Columbia, the overall caliber of motivated and game-changing women surrounding me. It was a place wherein I could see myself evolving to my maximum potential, and possibly benefiting my entire life. </p>
<p>From my pov, the decision to save my money is one that has kept me awake at night to this day, and one that required a caliber of maturity that I hadn’t yet developed. To be able to look at my parents, who by the way traveled to Europe copiously and are by no means frugal, and not list the amount of money they “wasted” on luxuries that could have funded four incredible years of my dream school, is very challenging. It is challenging to swallow my impressive ACT score, my years of struggling to attain the grades I received, and the sheer stress of volunteering, doing two internships, going abroad, etc., all to attend a school that I am perhaps overqualified for.</p>
<p>But to potentially prohibit my parents from continuing to live the lifestyle that makes them happy might have been more challenging in the end. What I have decided to do, and what I think every student in my position could greatly benefit from, is mapping out a plan to construct the type of education I want to receive on my own terms. While it is true that I won’t receive seminar based classes of 10-20 exceptionally passionate students, I will have the opportunity to seek out Honors seminars taught by brilliant professors. While I will not be constantly exposed to future CEOs and Pulitzer prize winning journalists, I will have the freedom to study abroad at Cambridge or UCL for a year without worrying about extensive costs/not graduating on time. With the money saved up from not attending a private UG, I will have more flexibility in attending a grad school (Most likely law in my case) without as many financial restraints, and may very well be surrounded by the passionate and intellectually stimulating students and extensive internship opps at NYU or Columbia Law should I get in. </p>
<p>I’m typing this at midnight with many papers due tomorrow so I apologize if no coherent point has been made thus far. What I was hoping to articulate is that often the solution to the middle class student’s woes is to dig deeply into a cost-benefit analysis and find what resources can be “exploited” from being a top student at an average school. I will enjoy the seminars, study abroad opportunities, undergrad law review, and special attention from professors that I will recieve from UCSB, perhaps as much as I would enjoy Barnard. A progressive attitude can often be the difference between misery and substantial success. For me, I still have my regrets and spend some time scrolling through pictures of Manhattan, but I will have the clear conscience of knowing that my parents can continue to enjoy a lifestyle that they worked very hard to cultivate. Now on to my physics homework…</p>
<p>@sabreez
On the contrary, from your post you sound like an exceptionally mature young woman. </p>
<p>Some characteristics of maturity are the ability to defer gratification, to respect the needs of others as being as worthy as your own, and to accept with grace the simple fact that more often than not, adults don’t get to have all the things they want. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am the graduate of a UC. As you may know, my daughter is a graduate of Barnard – she was also accepted to and offered a modest amount of merit aid from UCSB and UCSC as well as substantial need based aid from all schools. Barnard was more costly than either UC would have been, but the financial equation was different for us, and so my daughter had the opportunity to make the choice you wish you could have made. </p>
<p>If we had not received a workable aid package from Barnard, I don’t know whether my d. would have chosen UCSB or UCSC, but I would never have seen her as “overqualified” for either – even though we knew from the letters offering the merit aid that she was near the top of the applicant pool. </p>
<p>You will find plenty to challenge you at UCSB. If you think you are “overqualified” I would recommend that you take Chem 1A or Philosophy 20A. I think you will quickly discover that a UC education can be very taxing for your brain, no matter what your ACT scores.</p>
<p>You wrote:
</p>
<p>That’s a fantasy and a dichotomy that doesn’t exist. Some of my daughter’s classes at Barnard were seminars; some were lecture courses with 200-300 students. Her classmates were humans who sometimes got tired or distracted, and were not always well-prepared for class, not superwomen.</p>
<p>My daughter’s first year writing seminar at Barnard was taught by a very young professor who earned her PhD at UC Santa Cruz. The irony of the situation was not lost on me.</p>
<p>As to the future CEO’s and Pulitzer prize winning journalists? I don’t know how one identifies them in undergrad-- nor do I know why there isn’t an equally good possibility of running into them at UCSB. The vast majority of Barnard grads will not achieve fame or unusual recognition – and many individuals who start attend public schools for undergrad will. I can say in hindsight that life will surprise you - my classmates who did go on to achieve recognition later in life were not individuals who had particularly distinguished themselves as undergrads. </p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong: I do think that my daughter got a stronger education at Barnard than I got at my UC, and that her school afforded her challenge and opportunities for growth that are probably an order of magnitude higher than she would have gotten at the UC. But its hard to say --my son attended a CSU and ended up with an amazing, competitive fellowship offered to only one student from his school each year - sometimes being “overqualified” can be an advantage. I hear a lot of similar stories from parents of very smart kids who ended up at less selective colleges – even at lower prestige colleges, the professors are smart people who have earned PhD’s in their field, who tend to be delighted when they encounter bright and eager students. </p>
<p>@sabreez thank you for sharing your perspective-I think that is going to help @goldenstate2015!</p>
<p>Twooneanddone- if you are referring to me with your MIT comment, yes- happily would have paid for Cal Tech, Georgia Tech, Purdue, any of the schools of that ilk. Would NOT have paid full freight for a mid-tier university with a mid-tier engineering program for a kid who could get admitted to a top flight public U with a strong engineering program. The price/value ratio had to make sense.</p>
<p>@blossom I believe the reference was to @bookworm.</p>
<p>@sabreez–remarkable post. Good luck to you. And calmom’s response is perfect. The two together should be required reading for everyone here.</p>
<p>Yes, I would gladly pay for Caltech or CMU’s SCS. Caltech was by far the best value; almost $10,000 less a year, and they offered upperclass merit awards (not that I knew son would earn that when he matriculated). We should have put GA Tech on the list, as we have family in Atlanta and there is some reciprocity with our state.shool. </p>
<p>I knew there were no colleges ina 3 hour drive that were strong in CS. I did hope that there would be direct flights and friends or family in the area. </p>
<p>Certainly there are times on every lengthy thread that side discussions begin. But that doesn’t mean that some of us are not just responding to the original question. That is what I was doing.</p>
<p>I observe that any time somebody says, “I don’t think people should do x,” that whatever x is, it will be pointed out that maybe some people have a good reason to do x that I don’t know about. That’s always possible. I will say, though, that I have known some kids who, in my opinion, would have had much better college experiences if their parents had supported a more expensive choice, and the parents were in a financial position to do so, based on my knowledge of their finances. As Pizzagirl said above, that makes me sad. It makes me sad in a way similar to my feelings when parents don’t let a kid do an activity for which he or she has a talent, for reasons that I think are mistaken. Of course, it’s not my business, unless they ask for my advice. But I have an opinion that somebody is making a mistake.</p>
<p>
but your personal page says you just joined in January, fluffy. Am assuming that “these forums” includes THIS forum. Are we to believe you were just lurking for the past 10 years? Who are you?</p>
<p>Hunt, </p>
<p>Unless you know all the details about someone’s personal finances (which you probably don’t) it can be difficult to judge what a family can or can’t afford. In addition the choice which you consider to be a much better college experience may not actually be the case.</p>
<p>My thought regarding “Much better college experience”, my kids already dipped with both feet in the pool of good fortune, comparing to my cousin’s kid who suffered after my cousin pass away at a young age. So I think if my kids don’t already know that and still think they deserve a much better college experience, then as a mom I think they are definitely in a category of spoiled brats(just my kids not anybody else here). I rather they are not in the take take take category all the time. I rather give my cousin’s kid some money instead, this poor kid has suffered since 13 without a mom and good guidance. Dad got depressed after the mom died and all he did was gambling and the results the family had no money and a lot of shame.
Now that is really sad.</p>