<p>dbwes – I completely agree and that was very well said.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Food for thought: Many students with psych disorders develop them AFTER marticulation at their college/university.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I work at a substance abuse tx/intervention program at my university, and I can tell you that <em>most</em> students (esp. lower classmen) have engaged in bing drinking and that a disturbingly high number have driven drunk (and not gotten caught). I’m not condoning this behavior by any means, but it, especially the former, is far from rare.</p>
<p>lurid, you really have no idea what my conception of “them” or “their capabilities” is. </p>
<p>Perhaps you are intimately familiar with the environment at MIT, such that you have a basis on which to disagree with my assessment of the Institute.</p>
<p>To answer your specific question, I would neither send a severely depressed child, nor a severely OCD child, to MIT.</p>
<p>I would not consider someone who remarks that one school, MIT, is outside of the choice set to have a “frighteningly narrow” views.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What about someone with a mild or moderate psych disorder? <em>curious</em></p>
<p>or one with an eating disorder? I don’t think you got my point. It’s a diverse set, and generalizations of any persuasion are likely to be false. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My idea of your concept is formed on the basis that you would consider them all as one with regard to MIT, which is the only relevant part that I am contesting. Therefore, it doesn’t really matter what else you think, because I have taken no issue with what you have not expressed. Neither does my assessment (or your’s, for that matter) of MIT matter. Yes, I do think precluding <em>any</em> school on the basis of mental illness derives from a premise that indicates you do have a narrow view. Thanks for trying to condescend to me.</p>
<p>lurid – one of the first things that I did on this thread was to ascertain that the original posters depressive episodes were severe. Based on that information I then encouraged her to consider the particular atmosphere that exists at a school like MIT, not to rule it out necessarily, just to be aware that she has limitiations that she will always have that other people don’t have.</p>
<p>If one of my kids inherited my tendency to be depressed and they had the talent to go to a school like MIT then I would steer them in the direction of Carleton or another small liberal arts college where I believe the environment is more what they need. I would want their professors to know them by name and to notice if something seemed amiss. A school like Carleton is hardly limiting and MIT is not for everyone, and that is probably the understatement of the year.</p>
<p>I wasn’t speaking to your evaluation of the OP. The OP clarified that he/she did not believe that his/her condition was offset or impacted by schoolwork, but that it was effected by it, after the depression had already been offset. Hence, the OP did not feel like the caliber of college mattered. I don’t feel like either of us have reason to doubt the OP on the nature of his/her medical history.</p>
<p>I was, however, speaking to ADad’s comments generalizing all mentally disordered people, and your subsequent agreement with ADad’s comments.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well then we will have to disagree. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We will also have to disagree about the relevance of the environment at MIT. I think that the environment in which a mentally ill person lives and works is very important. </p>
<p>No, I would most certainly not send a child with a serious eating disorder to MIT. </p>
<p>Regarding a mild disorder. We would have to discuss whether a “mild disorder” constitutes “mental illness”. If “mental illness” is a broad term, so broad that it encompasses “mild disorders”, then I would have to reconsider my viewpoint. The broader the term “mental illness” becomes, the more likely I would be to consider allowing my “mentally ill” child to go to MIT. I can tell you, though, that I would think long and hard about allowing a child with any significant mental or emotional disturbance to go to MIT.</p>
<p>My dd has serious comorbid mental illnesses. She has a very unusual transcript which had to be explained, as she has large gaps in her high school career. Both she and her counselor wrote a letter of explanation. My dd fully disclosed her mental illnesses with the theory that if a college didn’t want her due to those, then they wouldn’t be the right school for her. She needs a supportive school. She didn’t write about them as her essay but instead wrote about them in a personal statement. She applied to 5 schools and was accepted to all. She even received scholarships to 4 of them.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I understand what you two are saying, but I don’t think you understand where people are coming from. MIT is not like a normal school with super-hard coursework. The difficulty of it is more than that. It’s the fact that you will be surrounded by super-stressed out people, a disproportionate amount of who will be depressed. The ugly campus, from the buildings and dorms to the lack of green space, can be depressing in itself. I’ve been at various top universities, and I can’t tell you how different the vibe is at MIT. Now some people are very high on their MIT experience, but there are quite a few that agree with my assessment. </p>
<p>It’s about whether the college experience will likely be miserable, not whether people with mentally illness are strong enough to deal with it (although being miserable often does have consequences on performance.) So there is no need to be offended.</p>
<p>As a person who suffered from bouts of clinical depression including being suicidal, formerly worked as a clinical psychologist, and also went to Harvard, I agree with collegealum314.</p>
<p>The issue isn’t whether bright, motivated students with mental illness can handle the work at a place like MIT. The issue is whether the atmosphere at MIT would increase the risk of the students’ mental health’s deteriorating.</p>
<p>Also, the more impersonal colleges like MIT and Harvard for that matter increase the chances that if a student becomes ill, others won’t notice. </p>
<p>If one has or has had a mental illness, it’s very important to talk with one’s therapist about what kinds of colleges would be appropriate. This was a major part of the college application process for the students with mental illness whom I know.</p>
<p>The same concerns are true for people with other types of medical problems and disabilities.</p>
<p>Just to flip this around a bit, I look forward to the day when any student can feel comfortable going to any college, regardless of any kind of chronic illness or disability. I am hoping this is the next big civil rights issue in our country, to be honest.</p>
<p>We have found that admissions committees love what we like to call “tv movie stories”: such as a blind student who gets straight A’s and writes an opera, or a homeless student who studied in the public library and excelled despite sleeping in shelters.</p>
<p>However, once on campus, many students who were admitted because they “overcame obstacles” (this phrase is taken from a college guide’s description of admissions priorities), find little support, help or understanding of those obstacles.</p>
<p>That is why I mentioned a culture of “survival of the fittest.” The academic culture needs to raise its consciousness around some of these issues, and there are students on many campuses, right now, who are fighting for better rights.</p>
<p>The Americans with Disablities Act does NOT ensure, explicitly, many rights in post-secondary education, mainly because college is not considered “compulsory” the way high school is. With the economic need for many to go to college, in order to later support themselves, perhaps this should change.</p>
<p>In the meantime, case law is slowly being established.</p>
<p>The problem is that students with disabilities, including depression, can potentially cost schools money, and they take up a slot that can be wasted if the student goes home. Also, students with disabilities can affect graduation rates. Then, there is the issue of liability, particularly with suicide, but also, say, with a medical emergency on a weekend.</p>
<p>There is a disconnect between admissions, where achievement against odds is highly valued, and the experience on campus, where disabilities are inconvenient and potentially expensive for the institution, and, often, schools still have NO idea how to implement accommodations. </p>
<p>The only way for this to change is going to be advocacy. But this advocacy is hard when you are not feeling your best.</p>
<p>This is all separate from the culture of a place. If a student does become ill, many find that the administrators, professors and dorm staff do not treat them in a caring manner, and many schools have onerous conditions for return, for students on medical leave. The institution’s needs are the priority, not the student’s. </p>
<p>This is why I recommend that the original poster think hard about where to attend. We don’t have enough information to decide if any of this is relevant to the poster. But my point is not whether or not the person is UP to going somewhere, but whether the person WANTS to go, given the culture of the place. People with any kind of medical or psych. issues just have an extra institutional layer to investigate, along with the usual tours and information sessions that we all suffer through in junior and senior years.</p>
<p>If you want to go to MIT, by all means, go, after making sure that all the supports you need are in place. Make sure to pay for tuition insurance too, in case you need to leave for any reason (this is prudent for everyone). Just know that people at the institution may not care about you at all, and make sure you have people in your life, who are accessible, who do care.</p>
<p>There are many, many students with depression at many, many very top schools. High achievement, historically, is often associated with mood disorders. There is no reason why this original poster should not follow dreams of attending any school, as long as it is with open eyes and a realistic attitude.</p>
<p>One other thing: there are many paths to a degree. If for any reason, anyone here has difficulties with the 4 years of college/ living on campus, scenario, there are many alternatives these days. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>“Just to flip this around a bit, I look forward to the day when any student can feel comfortable going to any college, regardless of any kind of chronic illness or disability. I am hoping this is the next big civil rights issue in our country, to be honest.”</p>
<p>I don’t see this as a civil rights issue. The availability of appropriate medical care is a big concern for students with disabilities/medical conditions. Just because the campus has a health clinic and there are medical practitioners in the area doesn’t mean that they are expert in all medical conditions.</p>
<p>I know people in my small city who have medical problems who have to drive 2 hours to get excellent treatment for their conditions. Heck, I take mediation for depression, and will probabl be on it for the rest of my life. I wouldn’t move anywhere unless I knew that there were some excellent psychiatrists and therapists available whom I felt could treat my condition. </p>
<p>It’s important that everyone apply to colleges that can meet their needs. This particularly is true of people who have health conditions that may be exacerbated by stress or may need monitoring or specialized care.</p>
<p>“The problem is that students with disabilities, including depression, can potentially cost schools money, and they take up a slot that can be wasted if the student goes home. Also, students with disabilities can affect graduation rates. Then, there is the issue of liability, particularly with suicide, but also, say, with a medical emergency on a weekend.”</p>
<p>IMO, the major problem is that students with problems like depression can relapse and become fatally ill – suicidal or even homicidal – without anyone knowing, and without the student’s getting the help that they need. This is probably more likely to happen in the larger, more impersonal universities than in LACs and colleges known for having nurturing environments.</p>
<p>When I was at Harvard, every year, at least one student committed suicide. I had thought that was the way all universities were until I taught at a nurturing public university where suicides were rare.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is absolutely true. I learned this when one of my kids developed a chronic illness (physical) during college. It is an illness that falls under the ADA but the disability office said the most they can do is notify a professor, but they cannot mandate that a professor give an extension on a paper, etc. I think schools should be supportive, but I think it’s unrealistic to expect that a school can or should change its entire culture. Some schools are more impersonal than others. Some attract more competitive students, some are more nurturing. People who knows they have a problem before they apply to college are in a far better position than those who develops an illness – either physical or mental – once they are well into college, because they can plan accordingly.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, you misunderstand. There are services and accommodations that should be available, or provided more competently, on campus, for students, that can make the difference between a student continuing and leaving campus. I am not referring to medical services.</p>
<p>At the high school level, a student with medical issues or with depression, has many rights, but at the college level, almost none. It is good for the original poster to realize this.</p>
<p>How has the depression been accommodated at the high school level. If there are gaps in attendance, has the student had to attend high school for an extra year or two to make up for them? Probably not. Students often receive waivers, extensions, incompletes, excused absences, home tutoring, notes from class etc. etc. so that they can continue on to the next level, or graduate from high school. The same is not true at the college level.</p>
<p>I do not think that overall academic standards should ever be compromised, but if, for instance, a student misses a discussion class, due to a therapy appointment, they could write a short essay in place of the discussion. If a student is having a bad reaction to a medication, they should be able to get an extension on a paper, or postpone a test. That kind of thing.</p>
<p>The lack of support that I mentioned at some top schools, would include the lack of anyone who can check in with a student, or even to whom the student can talk, if things start to go bad. Having a therapist can help with this kind of monitoring, but that will not ameliorate the emotional effect of being on a campus that is not supportive.</p>
<p>So, we agree, I think, in the idea that a more nurturing environment such as a small LAC can be better for some.</p>
<p>“I do not think that overall academic standards should ever be compromised, but if, for instance, a student misses a discussion class, due to a therapy appointment, they could write a short essay in place of the discussion. If a student is having a bad reaction to a medication, they should be able to get an extension on a paper, or postpone a test. That kind of thing.”</p>
<p>This isn’t what concerns me, and I’d bet that this isn’t what concerns most colleges. I think that virtually all professors are accommodating if students bring evidence of a medical problem that has caused them to miss a class or an assignment.</p>
<p>What concerns me – and I think also concerns college administrators – is that a student with a history of mental illness may suffer a relapse due to the stress of college, and in many colleges, that relapse may go unnoticed of untreated (which could occur because the student refuses treatment), which could lead to the student’s death or injury or to the death or injury of other students.</p>
<p>No, many professors are not at all accommodating, and the administration/disability office does not always advocate for students with these professors, either. You obviously have not had this experience, but many have.</p>
<p>But this is apples and oranges. We are addressing different issues here. Of course, there is concern on the part of colleges about students who are potentially suicidal. However, a fairly high percentage of college students do suffer depression (30-50%), many of them very bright and high achievers.</p>
<p>I am not addressing that, but am trying to say that the student who posted should not just worry about whether or not she will be accepted, but also whether she wants to go to any particular school. I am also trying to say that in the future, the number of schools such a student might eagerly want to attend, without any of the misgivings expressed on this thread, will increase, if schools become willing to support them better.</p>
<p>I agree with Lurid in many ways, that students with depression or other mental health/medical issues should NOT have to limit themselves in any way, when choosing a school.</p>
<p>The reality, however, is that the consciousness needs to be raised at many top institutions, and the culture of excellence that is prevalent at these top schools can continue, while also making it possible for all students to achieve excellence, by accommodating, supporting and understanding their needs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Excluding the homicidal part (which represents a very very small subset of the mentally ill), all these risks exist in students who are otherwise disabled or ill, yet they don’t face the same onus as those who are mentally ill in college admissions. The cultural attitude toward mental illness is what bothers me.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s correct to lump all disabilities/illnesses together. Most college freshman are living in tight spaces with others 24/7. If it’s a disability that will impact others or potentially impact others then it should be disclosed. If it’s a disability that will have zero impact on anyone but the person with the issue then perhaps it’s not necessary to disclose. I agree that people should not be limited in what they want to achieve or are capable of achieving, but thought should go into how much the individual needs for support whether it is a mental disability or a physical disability. If support is needed or required the chosen school must have the resources and ability to “deal with it” whether it is medical support or specific housing/facilities arrangements. Many posters here are articulating this quite clearly. If the school cannot or does not or will not have the support resources or is it is not the correct choice of school. Ability and capability both have to be present. The range/scope of “mental illness” is huge, each person must assess individually what school will fit or not fit and it the degree of illness is such that disclosure is necessary. Absolutely any person who could potentially have to take a leave of absence should clearly understand the chosen school’s process and requirements.</p>
<p>ilpal–again, I appreciate your taking the time to provide support to others. What an admirable attitude. This really is so new, and within days of the diagnosis, my son went on vacation so I really don’t know how he’s handling it. I believe the short term will be about a month of weekly meetings with the therapist. At that point he’ll decide whether or not to recommend medication. I am not terribly concerned about anti-depressants (surprise surprise–I have experience with them myself), although DH is fairly strongly opposed to putting any kind of medicine in a kid’s mouth. We’ll have that discussion when the time comes, but I am open to it (and I believe DS is old enough to make the decision on his own).</p>
<p>Stormy–this is exactly the kind of information I’m looking for (and I believe the OP as well). Would you mind sharing what kind of schools your DD applied to?</p>