<p>Parents, may I ask some advice of you? Thanks, I thought so!</p>
<p>I'm a junior from the Bay Area. I'm narrowing down my college list to a reasonable number of schools to apply to, and part of my dilemma is that, considering I haven't visited the three East Coast colleges on my list (Yale, Columbia, Harvard), I have no clue as to whether or not I would find their campus environments, umm, welcoming (that sounds kinda weird...just hear me out). I've brought this up with my parents, who would definitely prefer that I stay on the West Coast. I have no objection to staying out here (my first choice is actually less than an hour away), but HYC are looking pretty good (academically, at least) as well. I'm worried that I won't get into my first choice (not unlikely), that I'll get into at least one of my other "perfectly good" West Coast choices (extremely likely) and into at least one of the Ivies on my list (I'm not ruling out the possibility), and that my parents will just say, "OK, you got into a school in state, so go there," without much consideration for the schools on the East Coast that I like. For what I'm interested in, there aren't a lot of West Coast schools that offer everything. My parents see no point in visiting the East Coast BEFORE my apps are in (i.e., spring break), as there's no such thing as guaranteed admission with Ivies (Yale as a safety? I think not!). I understand their viewpoint, but there's only so much info about these colleges that you can get by looking at their websites, e-mailing people, and reading college guidebooks. Besides, it would be fun to see NYC and all those historical sites in Boston, right? (Umm, maybe not when your parents are real homebodies -- not that that's always a bad thing!).</p>
<p>I guess my questions come down to these:
A) Will it hurt my chances of admission at Harvard, Yale, and Columbia if I don't visit?
B) Do you think it's worth it even trying to persuade my parents to take a family vacation to the East Coast this spring?
C) Do you think it's reasonably possible to visit these colleges during spring (April) of my senior year if I've been accepted to one or more of them and they look like viable options at that point? (I'm just thinking of short notice for trip planning with April 1st notifications, May 1st deposit deadlines, and approaching AP exams to complicate the matter.)
D) Do you have any further suggestions as to HOW I could persuade my parents to visit? (If it helps, my dad has a second cousin who lives on Long Island...)</p>
<p>A. Won't hurt your chances in the least. (In fact, based on experience, I'd be shocked if they'd even notice.)
B. Might be nice. But really not necessary if you feel comfortable applying to colleges sight unseen, and dealing with stuff after the results. NYC and the historical sites in Boston might be of greater value. Or not. Depends on your own psychology.
C. Yes, it is reasonable to visit upon admission. The odds of getting admitted to all 3 are roughly .12 x .12 x .12, give or take, depending on who you are. So it may only be one visit you're talking about it.
D. Persuade - "I'm not going to be with you forever, and wouldn't it be great to have a wonderful family trip, and also to confirm whether or not I want to stay on the West Coast?"</p>
<p>There are other schools where the visits would be more important. With Yale, you'd want to know whether you can (or would like to) handle the urban blight (the campus is fine, and beautiful - it is the surrounding area that you'd have to evaluate, and see/feel whether you care.) With Columbia, the pressure cooker of New York. With Harvard, unless there are specific and esoteric subject areas you wish to study, I can't imagine there are any particularly great issue, other than (as in the other schools), surviving and thriving in east coast climes.</p>
<p>If your parents aren't interested in a family trip, maybe you could wait until summer and take one of those group bus tours for high school students to visit east coast campuses. It wouldn't be totally representative since the regular students would not be in session, but it would not require your family to go. You could see a bunch of schools, take the campus tours, even stay in the dorms on some of them. Google "college tour" + "east coast".</p>
<p>Lots of students apply to colleges they have not been able to visit. Some (like the int'ls) even arrive as freshman without having visited. I don't think I would worry too much about its effect on your chances. The particular 3 schools you mention are probably less concerned with students' showing an interest by visiting than some of the LACs or 2nd tier schools would be.</p>
<p>My son is a junior at Stanford and we live on the East Coast. I told him that we would not visit Stanford to look at it but if he was accepted he could visit in April. He was fortunate to be accepted at many schools and was able to attend the programs for admitted students at MIT, Harvard, and Stanford - they were not held at the same time. You could do something similar if you are admitted to one or more of your three east coast schools. It will not be held against you if you don't visit when applying - you will probably be interviewed by alumni of the schools who live in your area as part of the process. Good luck.</p>
<p>As an east coaster, I told my children that if accepted, I would take them out there for a nice family trip - but that was if and only if they were accepted. Honestly, it can be a waste of money otherwise...but thats entirely personal.</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry too much about NOT seeing the schools before hand though</p>
<blockquote>
<p>A) Will it hurt my chances of admission at Harvard, Yale, and Columbia if I don't visit?</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>They couldn't care less whether you visit or whether you are enthusiastic about the school. Why should they? They have a 75% yield. (A hint that prospective applicants should probably take into consideration).</p>
<br>
<p>Possible, but expensive.</p>
<br>
[QUOTE=""]
<blockquote>
<p>D) Do you have any further suggestions as to HOW I could persuade my parents to visit? </p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>To be honest, I think the decision to attend college 3000 miles away has to be a family decision, because it has a number of pragmatic implications such as the cost of airfare, the impracticality of short visits, and your ability to deal with the separation. For example, will you be OK with all your friends having family for Parent's Weekend while you don't? Will you be OK with not going home for Thanksgiving?</p>
<p>I don't believe that there are any right or wrong answers, only difference strokes for different folks. All things being equal, I think being within a day's drive makes college easier logistically.</p>
<p>Not addressing any of your questions but I'll add one: if economically possible, I strongly recommend visiting colleges before you apply. By waiting until afterwards, you may learn some things too late. Columbia was my D's #1 on paper...after visiting, she didn't even apply. Moreover, a string of visits led her to re-order her priorities and establish new preferences...if you discover this after you've done all your apps and have your decisions, you may find yourself totally screwed.</p>
<p>I'd have to second TheDad's comment. As my D visited colleges, #1 in her mind shifted from Amherst to Princeton to Swarthmore to Pomona where she applied ED. Schools on the West Coast definitely have a different flavor from those on the East Coast and differ within those two cultures as well. We combined our West Coast trip last April (LA and Bay area) with visiting relatives and some sightseeing.</p>
<p>If your parents aren't interested in a trip back east, a good alternative might be to order some of the video's from collegiatechoice.com - they are simply video's of the actual admissions tour. Nothing fancy but can give you something of an overview of what the campus is like (but not the surrounding area.) A visit would be better but if not possible, they would help you feel you are not shooting blind. They are about $15 each.</p>
<p>Visiting prior to application definitely changed my D's school preferences. Her long-term number one fell to number three, and two schools that were not even on her list moved to numbers one and two.</p>
<p>I can't recommend this particular tour - that is, I haven't used them - I'm the kind of parent that puts my kids on an airplane alone, with a cell phone and a credit card, and lets them figure out the rest. But assuming your parents want something chaperoned, the organized college tour is probably the best way to go. </p>
<p>I do know that a lot of bay area high schools organize their own trips. If your own high school doesn't do this, you may be able to get in on a trip with another school in your district -- I'd suggest starting by asking the guidance counselor at your school what may be available.</p>
<p>Avalon - you really haven't presented your parents' side of this, so we're kind of shooting in the dark here. Do they not want you to consider east coast schools? Or do they not want to spend family time/money on an east coast trip? Or do they think you should wait until you have admissions in hand before spending the resources on visiting? Or do they not think visits are valuable? What???!! If you are not sure yourself what your parents' objections are to visiting east coast college, the first thing you should do is talk to them. You can't address their concerns if you don't know what they are.</p>
<p>I'll speak to the opposite "coast" view...from the parent side. DD wants to look at one school in California. We live on the east coast. This is NOT a long weekend trip. It means taking time off of work (for one of the grownups) and using her only break in the spring to look at one school. In the meantime, she also has about 6 other schools that she would like to see that are within a drive (a LONG drive, but still, a drive). We simply can't do both. IF she had three or four schools she really wanted to see in CA, we would make the trip. But we simply can't justify it for one, especially since it would also mean not being able to see the six other schools during the same time period. She has to make a choice. IF she applies to and gets accepted at the CA school, and it is a top choice, we would fly her out there to see it. I should add, we have absolutely no objections to her going to school far away. In fact, the "drive to" schools are quite a distance from here too (in the south, but still in the east).</p>
<p>It really doesn't matter if the order of preference is going to change as a result of the visits, as long as you are applying to all 3. The odds of getting into all three -- all other things being equal (they never are) are 0.001728/1. So pre-visits will only set you and your family up for disappointments.</p>
<p>If the list included schools where on-campus interviews or visits made any difference, it would be one thing. But they don't mean a thing for these three schools. And you won't learn that much in a day visit either - you'll definitely need overnights (especially at Yale if you want to decide whether you feel comfortable in the "gated" environment. You'll have a tour and see pretty buildings (and some not so pretty), you are unlikely to meet any faculty, and you'll sit in on a class or two, taught by the very same faculty that might have been teaching at Stanford or Berkeley, depending on which year a job happened to open up. And it might be a great class or it might be a lousy one - and the students in all the classes are likely to be pretty smart, and you might run into two or three really friendly ones, and two or three really arrogant or snooty ones, and maybe an athlete or two. The students will all be drawn from the same pool: 50-60% will be from families in the top 5% income bracket, 50% or so will have come from private schools; fewer than 10% will come from poorer families. A large proportion will be at one school simply because they were rejected at another.</p>
<p>Can I suggest another strategy before you do visits? Make a list - a very detailed list - of things you actually want to find out, and then ask yourself, with your family, what are the best ways to get at the answers.</p>
<p>Texas137 -- Thanks for bringing up the fact that I haven't really presented my parents' point of view. I wouldn't say they don't want me to consider East Coast colleges -- they just <em>prefer</em> that I stay on the West Coast, but I wouldn't say that they are fanatic about my staying in state. In other words, if I was deciding between College X in CA and College Y in MA (two supposedly equivalent schools), they'd definitely want me to go to College X. Still, they're not closed to the East Coast idea -- I'd need a compelling reason to go, though. I think part of their hesitation is the fact that I'll still be 17 when I start college (won't be 18 for another 2-3 months after beginning), and, while I wouldn't label them as "overprotective," they feel a little uneasy about sending me to a location of the country without many friends for family members nearby, just in case "something bad happens." (that makes ME feel real confident -- not!)</p>
<p>As for their objections to trip-taking, I'll admit that my parents are somewhat cheapskates (that sounds rude -- it really isn't) and homebodies. I've done a bit of research on the costs of such a trip, and the costs of transportation, lodging, and food alone would exceed $3000 for a family of four (hard to believe). My dad's always reminding me that I'm "incredibly fortunate" that he and my mom will be paying for college (and I know that I am), but considering that the most expensive vacation we ever took was to South Dakota to visit relatives, I don't think he wants to "waste" any of his hard-earned cash for a vacation he's not entirely sold on. Do you get the picture? I have been mentioning how much I'd like to visit some of these colleges, and I think he's a BIT more open to the idea of visiting, but I certainly don't have him completely persuaded. Again, I honestly doubt that the visit issue isn't one of "we don't want going to school far away," but rather one of, "I need a GOOD reason on why you want me to spend a ton of money and take time off of work to go visit some colleges that accept 11% of their applicants." I would definitely be willing to foot half of the cost (as if I can afford it) -- maybe I should bring that up.</p>
<p>Calmom -- thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it.</p>
<p>Thumper1 -- Yes, I understand your point of view. I suspect that my parents would agree with your plan of waiting until (if) the child is admitted, determining whether the school is a real option, and only then going through the hassle of visiting.</p>
<p>Mini -- I love your idea of making a list. I'll try that for ALL the schools on my list (not just the out-of state ones).</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone. I'm really appreciating your input.</p>
<p>Your post made me wonder why the whole family would go. Usually 1 parent comes, but if there is a chance to combine the visit with a vacation, could be different. If your parents haven't travelled much, they could enjoy Boston, NY, of Philly for a long weekend.</p>
<p>Good point about the whole family going (or not going). I think it would be fun to go with just my mom, considering that my brother would hate me forever if we dragged him along. My dad, while I can't say for sure that he would be opposed to just my mother and me going, might feel uneasy about letting her and me go to a part of the country we're unfamiliar with -- not say he'd say no, though. Maybe I can change his mind...for crying out loud, why can't I just go by myself? I've done all the research anyway, and I can tell you exactly which subway line to get on at what time! :)</p>
<blockquote>
<p>If your parents haven't travelled much, they could enjoy Boston, NY, of Philly for a long weekend>></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Sorry, but here is where I disagree. Flying from one coast to another and spending a long weekend would not be enjoyable (in my opinion). There is the time change factor and the travel time. Also, if the family is making the trip to look at a college for a "long weekend", they would be spending one day flying to the east, one day visiting the college, and one day flying home. There is also the cost of a long weekend trip. If we're going to go to the other coast, it would need to be for a week to justify the expense, and to make it possible to enjoy the trip (and not be jet lagged the whole time). Now...having said that....if the family were to take an East Coast trip for a week, there is certainly MUCH they could enjoy together while still seeing a few colleges. We combined a family vacation/college trip last summer and it was terrific. We saw a part of the country that we had not previously travelled to, and really had fun. Being gone for 10 days made it possible to tour five colleges, visit with friends, see the sights, drive around, and still have time to relax. If my daughter can find just a few more colleges of interest in CA, we WILL make that trip...but not for a long weekend...for 10 days.</p>