Maybe the student should request a semester off from school in order to focus on figuring out any mental health issues (best done without the distraction of college).
Between now and next Fall, a good therapist and physician may be able to determine the right therapy and Rx to relieve some issues.
I would include the mention of the anxiety issues first, and then once they understand what you’ve been going thru, tell them that it has severely affected your grades. They’ll be more prepared to understand and accept the situation that way.
The failing grades are only a symptom of a deeper issue. It sounds like you have a significant anxiety disorder. These disorders are often exacerbated by new experiences or new environments. Your college must have a health center and a counselor you can contact. Such a person could help guide you through the conversation with your parents. It’s important that you treat the bigger issue with counseling and possibly medication. Then fix the issues with course / major selection. As others have mentioned, in the end, these 2 failing grades will be in the past.
Keep in mind that there are triggers for some anxiety disorders: moving away for college, breakups, new jobs, etc. Get a handle on your mental health! You CAN overcome this. Know that you are NOT alone. You may never be an extrovert, but you may find yourself more comfortable in public.
Heal yourself! (I also like the idea of a semester break to get your mental health in order)
If OP’s attending CCNY, he/she’s likely to be a city resident or someone who lives nearby considering the demographic of most students attending CUNY schools. Thus, it’s very possible CCNY IS a hometown college for him/her.
To OP,
Out of curiosity, how strong was your learning experience(NOT GRADE) from Calculus 1 and prior math courses?
Do you think that might have factored into the outcome this semester alongside the socialization and inability to prioritize academics/studying?
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Keep in mind that there are triggers for some anxiety disorders: moving away for college, breakups, new jobs, etc. Get a handle on your mental health! You CAN overcome this. Know that you are NOT alone. You may never be an extrovert, but you may find yourself more comfortable in public.
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Exactly. BIL found this to be true when he started his first “real job”. He was fine in college and grad school (for some reason…maybe because he was the “keep to myself” type?), but the stress/unknown of a “new job” proved to be too much (maybe because it involved more “unknown” and more “teamwork”?) He has a serious social anxiety disorder, but has never sought any kind of treatment - which is unfortunate. I think that there are several meds that can make a serious difference.
I think that is why sometimes it’s hard to uncover some of these issues. A person may be fine doing certain things that to others would be stressful, but then have anxiety issues over something that may “seem” to be less stressful.
I may be in totally over my head here, with no real experience with the types of issues you’re facing. But I’ve taught a number of high school kids who have faced similar issues.
And I’m a mom. Like your parents, I love my kids to death.
So here’s my suggestion: Your parents love you and want to help you. In order for that to happen, they need to be in the loop.
If you can’t imagine opening the conversation, then don’t. Sit at your keyboard and type it all out, and hand them your letter. It’s not the medium, it’s the message. Let them know what’s going on.
Sure, they want you to do well in school-- we all want the best for our kids. But, far more than that, they want you to be happy and healthy. Let them in so that they can get you the help you need. The only disappointment they’re likely to feel is that they were unaware that you were feeling so alone.
Write the letter. Now. Don’t worry about getting it absolutely right-- in fact, simply copy your first post onto a piece of paper and hand it to your parents. Do it now.
The best of luck to you, and hopes for a happier, healthier 2015 for you…
Great idea. They need to be told. And then you can move on. Trust us! You will feel so much better. And have a plan in place. It will show that you are thinking ahead! They will respect and appreciate that!! Good luck.
@cobrat Well NYC is my hometown, but my family moved away last year due to my dad’s work so I’m currently living on my own (hence the “my dad pays my rent” part). I go and visit them in the summer, and occasionally my dad stops by for a few days (he should be coming to stay with me for a few days in about two weeks).
As for learning experience, I never understood math but like I said, I have an exceptionally well memory. The reason I managed to pull off a B in calc 1 wasn’t because I understood it but because I looked at a bunch of old tests and memorized the problems and solved them over and over and over. And it was the same with Algebra, Geometry, and Trig in high school. In fact, I was in a trig honors class but I always felt like a dumba*s compared to the other students when they spoke about the problems with so much passion and understanding while I was just sitting there memorizing the material because I gave up on trying to understand it. And I even went on to AP calc in high school but after two months, I realized that no matter how hard I tried I simply couldn’t get it so I dropped the class because I was a straight A student and didn’t want it to affect my transcript. I just assumed that I wasn’t ready for I’d be ready for it in college when I take it again.
The only reason I wasn’t able to do the same this semester is because calculus isn’t something I could quickly skim read and memorize like I did with the easier classes. I have to actually sit down and carefully read all parts of the problem and memorize it.
I don’t think my learning exprrience from previous math classes had much of an effect on what happened this semester, however. I know if I were in the right state of mind, I would’ve been able to sit down and memorize and solve old problems in chem and calc and manage to pull at least a B.
Surphe – memorization isn’t going to get you through calc and chemistry, and it won’t help you all with more difficult courses. How did you end up with a computer engineering major? (Assuming that is your major, from your earlier post in another thread).
You won’t do well with any sort of engineering track if memorization is your basic strategy – sooner or later you are going to be presented with assignments that expect you to apply your conceptual understanding to new problems or projects.
I’m guessing that you either chose your major because of parental pressure or else because you perceive job and earning prospects to be better with an engineering major – but the problem is, the job/earning numbers reflect the outcomes from successful students who have a knack for math and engineering.
I think it’s time for you to sit down and browse through the offerings at CCNY – you are lucky, CCNY offers a lot to choose from! And it is much better for you to change majors now, during your first year, when there is still plenty of time to catch up with any prerequisites for different majors.
@ Surphe Since you are not living with your parents, I would call them and discuss it now, instead of waiting until your father comes to visit.
If you find it easier to speak with your mother, I would call her when you anticipate that your father is not home, and speak with her first. Then you could discuss with her the best way to deal with your father.
The longer you wait, the more difficult it will be to tell them. The sooner you do it, the sooner you will feel better.
Many parents would be disappointed, and frustrated that they weren’t in the loop on this. But after the frustration/anger subsides, most parents would want two things: 1) to know that you are okay; and 2) to hear what your plan is to succeed.
So, visit the health service and see if they can rule out an anxiety disorder. If not, get treatment for it. If they find that you have social phobia, get therapy for it.
To succeed academically, you’ve got to manage your social life effectively. That means setting limits on yourself, and having the discipline to abide by those limits. It means keeping your parents in the loop. Speak to your professors early in the semester, tell them about your challenges first semester, and tell them you are going to do what it takes to have a successful spring semester. Most campuses have resources to assist students with their academics. Utilize those resources early. Consider using a tutor. You appropriately recognize that the math strategies you used in h.s. don’t work in college. So get the necessary help to find what works.
@calmom a bit of both, actually. My dad is an engineer, my mom was a business major but doesn’t work, my paternal uncle is a doctor, my maternal uncle is an engineer. My mom doesn’t really care what I go into as long as I’m successful, but you know how patriarchy works. I have pretty much been taught from an early age that anything that’s not engineering or medical is no good. I was never really introduced to other majors because it has pretty much been set on me that I have to be a doctor or an engineer. The reason I went with computer engineering (I considered computer science as well but went with CpE in the end) is because it seemed like the one with the least human interaction that provides a decent job outlook and an above average salary.
I don’t know what other majors have to offer because I never concerned myself with them. I would love to switch to a major that better suits my abilities (especially writing. Not to make it sound cheesy, but I truly feel alive when writing) and provides a decent job outlook and salary, but I don’t know what major that is or if it exists at all… I guess I have to look at the various majors and see what each one requires and offers.
@Much2learn I think I’ll do that tomorrow morning… I’ll say it to my mother and leave it to her to break it down to my father… I guess it’s better that way since he will have calmed down by the time he comes to visit.
I honestly would rather not tell my parents about any of the anxiety stuff. I kept it in me for so long, I’m sure I can keep it in for a little longer. I just cannot imagine myself having that conversation with them, even over the phone. When we parted when they had to move, I didn’t even hug them because I just don’t know how to act in those situations and my anxiety doesn’t make it easier. I really cannot imagine having that talk with them. I’ll break down the news to my mom and leave it to her to break it down to my dad, and I’ll try to deal with my anxiety on my own. I’ll call my physician and ask him to send me to a therapist and try to work things out on my own without having them know about anything. That’s probably wrong of me, but it’s much more plausible in my head.
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone! It really helped and cleared up some things in my head.
Surphe, you are too young to realize that all of your problems are FIXABLE. Your grades are fixable. Your relationship with your parents is fixable. Even your anxiety is fixable - you may always feel some anxiety, but there are ways of coping with it, treating it, and even medicating it that you cannot fully access unless you are willing to come clean to the people in your who can help you the best.
Your parents, on the other hand, are old enough to KNOW that these things are all fixable, and they are world class experts on the subject of YOU. If anyone can help you fix all of the problems in your life, it is them. Give them the chance to help you. You will be very surprised how freeing it will be for you to live a life of total honesty.
Surphe – I hope you will go to the career center and maybe some campus job fairs to get a better idea of the very broad array of options you have. Writing in and of itself is not a high paid occupation, but the ability to write well is a huge asset in many professions, and there are many different types of jobs that good writers can get – for example, technical writing or working as a copy editor for a publisher.
Please understand that you simply will not be successful in any occupation that you don’t have a natural aptitude and affinity for. You’d have a hard time getting hired because while you might have the degree, you’d be competing against others who would have stronger GPA’s and better recommendations from profs or as a result of internships. When you did find work you’d face constant anxiety about your work performance.
Please also understand that your college major does not have to be a direct path into a career – that is, students who major in history aren’t all planning to become historians. So it is o.k. to major in something that doesn’t seem like it leads to a specific job.
I’d encourage you to consider a writing-intensive major, since writing gives you such joy. You’ll end up with a better GPA, and it is far less likely that you will face similar issues with depression in the future, because when you are feeling down you will look forward to your classes and assignments rather than finding yourself procrastinating over studying something that doesn’t really appeal to you.
I don’t know your parents so I really can’t advise what you can or should share. But courses like calculus and chemistry are known to be “weeder” courses – classes where it is fairly common for students to recognize that they are in over their heads and reconsider their academic goals. So while your parents will be understandably disappointed, they must be aware that your struggles are with very difficult courses.
@Surphe, if you love writing and have trouble with Math, I would definitely change your major. Computer Engineering is definitely not the right major for you. Maybe CIS, but definitely not CS or Engineering.
If you have a passion for computing, you might be able to combine the two by getting into writing documentation for computer software. Others might know more about the job prospects in that field, and whether you can get a job doing just documentation, or whether you’d have to do both documentation and software testing. This might not be the kind of writing you’re talking about, but just thought I’d mention it, because I think there’s demand for it.
You could also major in English or History, which both involve a lot of writing. Many people go on to Law school after those degrees. I don’t know if you have an interest in Law, but it sounds like you have a good memory if you can work your way through difficult Math courses using it. A good memory is something that will definitely help with Law.
Law is not an area I know a whole lot about, but maybe others here can guide you if you do have an interest in it. It definitely requires logical skills, which overlap with Math, but I know lawyers who are not Math people.
You should really try to do what you’re passionate about, but doing a pre-Law type of major might make your parents happy, since they seem to be pushing you toward the professional fields.
I would definitely talk to a therapist about your anxiety. That’s way too much to hold inside.
Unless the CIS/MIS major has enough rigor and technical content to be near equivalent to CS/CE or the OP has demonstrated passion for computers outside of classes(i.e. loves tinkering with computers/software for hours for fun) and bring it out in a job interview, a CIS/MIS major is unlikely to be much better than any other degree. In many schools, such majors are mostly undergrad business courses with some IT related courses thrown in.
In fact, I know of some hiring managers for IT departments even in non-technical companies who tend to be wary of MIS/CIS majors due to perceptions they don’t have enough technical chops and entered the field for mercenary reasons rather than a genuine passion for delving deeply into computers and technology and leveraging that to facilitate the company’s business/solve internal clients’ technical issues.
Some issues with the law school idea:
The legal industry is in a state where there's still far too many lawyers and law school grads chasing too few lawyer jobs....especially ones which pay enough to defray substantial debts most law students incur.
Law school is 3 years and tuition and fees averages around $150k for public and $200k+ for private law schools. While merit scholarships exist, they are usually reserved only for the top portion of the applicant pool in GPA/LSAT stats and don't usually cover full or even half the costs. Even if one gets a full merit scholarship, the ones from lower ranking law schools often attach GPA/class standing conditions and are designed in such a way half or more of the recipients end up losing those scholarship after 1L(first year of law school).
Law...especially biglaw or many public interest law jobs in government(i.e. DOJ) or NGOs(i.e. ACLU) is an industry concerned with the pedigree/name of one's law school AND with the exception of the Top 3 law schools...one's academic standing in his/her law class. This has only gotten worse since the 2008 recession. Even students/recent grads from schools like Columbia Law aren't immune...especially if they end up in the bottom portion of their graduating class and/or don't interview well.
Undergrad GPAs are an important factor in law school admissions and is calculated by the Law School Data Assembly Service. Their calculated GPA will include EVERY college course taken up until one's first Bachelor's degree and YOU ARE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT ALL COLLEGE TRANSCRIPTS for every college course taken...including DE classes taken during HS, summer courses, or failed courses even if one's college allows for a grade replacement upon passing on second attempt*.
Law is one field where you will need to be working on teams with other attorneys and staff unless you decide to attempt to become a solo practitioner.
The latter option is not only very hard in an increasingly competitive market, most lawyer friends have also stated it takes several years of working in a larger law firm gaining practical experience about the law business and a professional track record of actual cases before becoming a solo practitioner is remotely a viable option.
In the last case, BOTH the failed course and the passing grade on the second attempt are averaged in the LSDAS GPA calculation.
I think the problem is that the OP needs to move beyond thinking in terms of specific, named professions. (Doctor, Engineer, lawyer, etc.). That’s only a very small sample of the jobs and careers that people have. There are many careers that don’t require a specific degree in anything, and I also think that there may be many people who mistakenly feel locked into doing whatever they got their degree in. (I was in my mid 40’s before I really figured out that the fact that I had a law degree did not mean that I had to spend the rest of my life working as a lawyer – and I’ve now spent the last 20 years working at a job that includes a good deal of writing as well as CIS/type responsibilities … none of which have anything to do with what I learned in school).
I think it is a mistake for people to chastise OP for letting the social life get in the way of studies, given the history of social anxiety. OP’s task over the next 4 years is self-development – and certainly social skills are one part of that, and may be far more important as to employment and career opportunities in the long run than the degree title.
Careers in the fields of law and medicine aren’t limited to “doctor” and “lawyer” – there is a lot of document processing that needs to go on, and a need for administrative support, data management, and people with lighter-end computer skills (such as being able to work with spreadsheets or do very basic-level database programming).
I think that OP’s social isolation might have been part of the problem in the past – the OP was not really in a position to meet and talk to people with a wide range of career interests, which probably contributed to the very narrow perspective. I think OP might do best to enroll in a broad variety of courses for spring semester, with the idea of exploring other potential interests. It might also be worthwhile for Surphe to get involved with EC’s that could also provide some opportunity to explore other interests – for example, writing for CCNY publications, or getting involved in community service. (@Surphe: I know that anything involving working with & conversing with other people may be stressful for you – but trust me, this is one thing that simply gets better with practice. I think you will probably always be a person who also needs alone time to regroup and recharge – but one advantage of participating in organized group activities or projects is that it provides some structure that gives you a way to participate without being expected to entertain those around you with your witty conversation or whatever. )
Am going to go against the grain and say don’t go to campus health services. Here’s why:
You want to start sooner rather than later.
These places are understaffed enough that services can be limited to a certain number of sessions for counseling, Fine for short term adjustment issues and garden variety college student stuff. Anxiety, however, can be a tough nut to crack. If you have insurance, find someone you can see for as long as it takes.
If you want medication (not everyone does, and that’s totally ok) also do not mess around with campus health. Find a psychiatrist or a mental health NP in private practice. They will treat more aggressively and have a better understanding of the range of meds and their side effects, The person in my life with an anxiety disorder is on medication number 4. You want the same provider managing your case, not a hodgepodge of whoever is available at campus health. Too many times I hear about kids leaving campus health with a prescription for Xanax prescribed the generalist PA. in the 10 minute appointment you’re given, there simply isn,t enough time to really assess you for your medication needs.
Tell your parents about the Fs. You’ve had several suggestions for doing that. Pick the one you like best. In the next breath tell them you need help for your anxiety. Ironically, many of the reasons you have for why you"can’t" do or why this or that won’t work is really the anxiety talking.
“Not to make it sound cheesy, but I truly feel alive when writing” - This may sound odd, but you may want to keep that as your passion. DS was a talented, passionate musician. But he didn’t want that to be his major. It would have made it work, not fun.
I definitely agree good writers have an advantage in very many fields. When DD worked on the campus IT help desk, her manager wrote her a special thank you note about her emails (high quality and quantity) .
@colorado_mom, My wife employs thousands of technologists (from programmers to architects to DBAs, etc.). She often comes home grumbling about how someone’s poorly worded document led to an expensive and embarrassing misunderstanding. The misunderstandings can be technical or political or both.
The ability to write well is not to be underestimated, even when it’s ancillary to the formal job.