<p>cdover–Jesus said “You will KNOW my disciples by their love for others”. If I am judging and criticizing you, then it is NOT Jesus speaking through me (you can “feel me”. I am not after anyone). While Romans chapter 1 states that homosexuals will not inherit heaven, NOR will those who “hate and gossip”. So, that’s how you and I can know if I am truly emulating Jesus. Jesus said there will be many who call themselves followers of Christ, but He will tell them “Go away, for I never knew you”. Enough of that. I am just answering your question. Later guys.</p>
<p>“■■■” will occupy the same space in a decade or two as the n-word does. Think about it: when open homophobes are a fringe group like avowed racists are now, they will need a word to scream. The only reason why it is still acceptable in many circles is becuase it is still common to be anti-gay (even if the people using the word are not bigots themselves).</p>
<p>There will always be gay people and good friends of gay people using the word, same deal.</p>
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<p>This makes you sound incredibly insecure, fyi.</p>
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cdover–Jesus said “You will KNOW my disciples by their love for others”. If I am judging and criticizing you, then it is NOT Jesus speaking through me (you can “feel me”. I am not after anyone). While Romans chapter 1 states that homosexuals will not inherit heaven, NOR will those who “hate and gossip”. So, that’s how you and I can know if I am truly emulating Jesus. Jesus said there will be many who call themselves followers of Christ, but He will tell them “Go away, for I never knew you”. Enough of that. I am just answering your question. Later guys.
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<p>^I definitely understand that. I’m Christian, too, and know that all Jesus is about is love.</p>
<p>However, you say you have no hate but how do you know? The people I mentioned are blinded by the Bible so much so that they cannot see their hate. They believe they’re just doing what God wants, the same way you are. You’ve already told me in your first point that I must change my homosexuality and that gay people are dangerous. Why is that for you to decide? Have you directly heard from the Lord our God, Himself, that He didn’t make me gay? Or are you just assuming that from what Moses wrote in the Bible? From what I understand Moses does not equal God. Nothing equals God.</p>
<p>The freaking Catholic Church doesn’t even deny that homosexuality is real (they just don’t allow gay sex). Saying that gay people should “change” is just an extreme and unrealistic position. If gay people will not “inherit heaven”, that is quite blatantly hating both the “sinner” and the “sin”.</p>
<p>cdover, I am not telling you being gay, or hating, or gossiping, or lying is wrong, Romans chapter 1 is. I am FAR from perfect, that is not the goal. If we are gay, or lying, etc, we need to ask God to help our hearts. My heart is naturally rebellious against all forms of authority. But if God said it, I am choosing to believe it and will work my tail feathers off because I have fallen in love with the non-judgemental Jesus who only has my best interests, and is someone who really died for me. That breaks my heart. Every time I watch Jesus of Nazareth, by Franco Zefferelli, I get tears in my eyes and am attracted to being like Jesus. Hope I am not rambling. Sorry.</p>
<p>Well, first of all, Romans 1 doesn’t even say not to be gay. It just says “men with men working that which is unseemly”. At worst, this refers to sex itself. Some scholars even believe that it was just condemning the somewhat common practice at the time of straight people casually having gay sex (committed same-sex relationships weren’t even on the radar back then). However you interpret the passage, it definitely doesn’t speak against simply “being gay” (attraction).</p>
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<p>Is this the same non-judgemental Jesus who puts homosexuals in the same category as those who lie and steal? Why? Gay people aren’t hurting anyone with their lifestyle, so why should Jesus say it’s wrong?</p>
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But if God said it
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<p>That’s the thing! Did you read my post? The Book of Leviticus was written by Moses. We are trusting Moses’ word rather than trusting the Lord’s word. Neither you, nor I, have heard God’s voice say that gay people are bad. So why assume they are because of what Moses and other human beings have written.</p>
<p>Anyway, it is obvious we have different believes, but <em>I</em> truly and wholeheartedly believe that God is Love and Jesus is Love. I can’t say that the human authors of the Bible are love as well.</p>
<p>If you’re wondering how I came to believe that some of the Bible was written by humans alone, please, think about this:</p>
<p>The Bible states that you can hate someone because of this or that you can kill someone because of that. How do you hate or murder someone out of love? You probably think otherwise, but I don’t think you can.</p>
<p>God is Love, why would he sanction such hate?</p>
<p>I must say, that if you read your bibles, God does some seemingly hateful things.
Flooding the whole world
Sending two bears to eat up little kids
swallowing up whole nations of people
commanding Israelites to utterly destroy people, including the babes and suckling
turning a woman to stone
and countless other stories</p>
<p>while I understand that this occurred in the OT, it also does say that God never changes.
I’m sorry but I dont see how a merciful and kind God could do such actions. I mean even if he wanted to forgive us of ours sins, why not just do it and be done with it. Why allow Satan to try us an tempt us, I mean think about it. </p>
<p>I used to be a devout pentecostal Christian and I prayed for such along time that God would deliver me from the “evils of homosexuality” but I’ve come to the realization that he probably doesn’t exist. At least not in the way that the bible portrays him. I believe there has to be some sort of God but I dont think he intervenes in everyday life. I think that as humans, we need something to believe in and something to explain the things that we cannot. And if you think about it, what is it about Christianity that sets it apart from the countless other religions that have come before it. Religions which look at as foolishness. Or even other modern day religions like Islam, Hinduism or Sikhism?
After doing a study, Christianity has borrowed so many facets of other religions that it doesnt even make sense. But I’m not hear to persuade anyone in any direction. I think it is good to have something to believe in. But also, I think there’s a time and place for everything and right here, no one is going to really be changed or conformed so we are wasting our times trying to.</p>
<p>cdover, I am with you. I used to think I could distinguish what was human v. what was God’s voice. But, I also felt that maybe I was playing Russian roulette, that maybe my arrogance was keeping me from trusting that the apostle Paul in Romans 1 was correct, that liars, gossips, racists, homosexuals, were all not going to heaven. I was trying to make God into my form of God, a sort of anarchist I was. I now realize that my attractions need to be controlled, yes, even denied for the sake of my good and other people’s. Why Romans 1 is correct is that even though I may be overwhemingly attracted and in love with someone/thing, it may not be right for me. My anti-authority, anti-establishment bent did NOT want to submit to anything, not even Jesus. But I now understand that God has made men to procreate with woman, and that sex is primarily why he created it. While my flesh loves to do fun, and sometimes dumb stuff like gossip, slander, and gaze upon and touch things I shouldn’t, my mind that wants to be like Jesus subdues my flesh when I ask Jesus to help me. Sometimes it takes a second-by-second constraint. It is a battle. But I don’t want to muck up my mind, body, soul by doing stuff that Jesus would not do. He is my love, my life, my single most important reason for living. PP/ God hates anything I do that causes hurt to others and myself. I trust Him that lying is hurtful, that gossip is hurtful, that having sex with my own gender is hurtful. It is a trust or faith that I am not as smart as God, so I will acquiesce to His smarts and not my own. I give Him my life and will trusting that I will have a positive, exciting, clean, happy life if I try to live like Jesus. I don’t want to live with a hint of darkness, whether it is fun or not. I don’t like being around people who lie, talk bad about others, are negative, are anti-social, or are rebellious. I am still very kind to them and loving (trying to act like Jesus would), but I am no longer interested in even having my toe near trouble. A 102 year old man spoke at church today attesting to living like Jesus, that that filled his life full of blessings. That old sage is what I would love to be like: Jesus, faithful, loving, straight-up, honest to the core, and just a neat person to hang with. How honorable. A life of honor, of hanging with Jesus is what turns me on far more than my sexual impulses. I and God control myself, not my desires that sometimes try to lead me to the dark side. Thanks for listening. Tell me to shut up and I will, if you’d like.</p>
<p>Ok so to move off point a little</p>
<p>Please stop comparing being gay to being black and here is why i say this</p>
<p>when you see a black person you can clearly say this person is black, they have black/ darker brown skin and features</p>
<p>when you see a gay person most of the time you cannot tell unless they tell you or are walking around with their gf/bf</p>
<p>if original poster was my roommate i wouldn’t walk in and say OH he must be gay- might assume or speculate but certainly not know unless he told me or did something blatantly homosexual</p>
<p>however if a black person is my room mate- unless they are biracial or ridiculously albino there is no way I would be like Hmmm I wonder if this person is black or not?</p>
<p>If i see a black person or asian or latino I can immediately see that they are of that racial background-</p>
<p>if i see a gay person, to me they are just another person walking down the street</p>
<p>Stop the madness- ppl, please!
btw i’m black</p>
<p>I think that people comparing black to being gay because both groups have faced discrimination and also just as you cannot stop being black, you cannot stop being gay.</p>
<p>irish people as well as Jews aswell as muslims and countless other groups face discrimination why not compare them aswell</p>
<p>all i am saying is that the analogy is ridiculous and during Jim Crow America a black person couldn’t hide their race in a closet or choose not to disclose it- unless ofcourse they were biracial</p>
<p>there are countless of gay people who hide the fact day to day and tell no one- and die with that secret</p>
<p>most people who are 100% black- not biracial cannot die with their race a secret EVERYONE will know</p>
<p>Before LAnce from NSync came out no one knew- they speculated
however I am sure that from the moment people saw Usher they knew he was black no one ever speculated!</p>
<p>^Hey amanahill. Haha, okay, obviously what you’re saying makes sense. But how does that fit into the conversation? (Unless I missed something someone said a few pages back?). :)</p>
<p>I think that black is just the most obvious group that it can be compared to. And the point is that most closeted gay people wish they didnt have to hide. Because if you want to walk down the street with your boyfriend, then everyone will know. I get what you are saying but I just dont see the problem.</p>
<p>Cdover I am sorry to digress and to hijack your thread-
let the show go on</p>
<p>my bad</p>
<p>^ Hey hey no, I was actually asking to which part of the thread were you referring (if you were in fact referring to a specific part).</p>
<p>If you were just throwing something in there then of course that’s totally cool :). No worries!</p>
<p>Hey cdover, have you talked to your roommate yet or did you decide to tell him when it comes up? I think you said somewhere that Sunday was the day.</p>
<p>Lol, no not yet, I got the dates mixed up. It’s gonna be on Monday.</p>