Do people realize how amazingly and utterly elitist and stuck-up they sound when they say stuff like this? I mean, even aside from this being a ridiculous claim (what does it mean for a college to be “equal” to one’s intellect, anyway?), do people really believe that only borderline stupid people go to any given Directional State University?
When will you visit. I promise that you and they will love it.
Hmmm…in a way, that statement seems to contradict itself . If most mid class folks can’t afford to send their kids to schools that equal their intellect then at mid-tiers, etc, there would be a crap-load of high stats students. And in some ways that’s true.
At Bama, known for big merit for high stats, 40% of their students have an ACT 30+. They’re mostly students with unaffordable EFCs who took the money and ran to the South. And common sense tells you that those 30+ ACT students are mostly concentrated in about 15 academic majors (typically Eng’g, Math, Physics, Bio, Chem, English, The Classics, Philosophy, Music, Finance, Econ, French, etc).
So, those smart kids are surrounded by the intellectual peers… right???
Now, do you think that the profs in those majors need to dumb-down their material? No, they don’t. Is there still weeding? Yes, because like everywhere, some will attempt a major that is over their head and need to change paths
BTW…did you know this about Bama?
And TWO of those 2017 Goldwater Scholars are each currently holding multiple MD/PhD MSTP acceptances to amazing med schools. MD/PhD MSTP programs are extremely competitive and the fact that these two are holding several acceptances is very impressive.
I’ve learned a lot about people’s choices and paths over the years. Sometimes at first glance, their choices may seem like they’re selling themselves short, but in reality, they know exactly what they’re doing. At my son’s Match Day last year, I was surprised to see that some of the top med students opted to do their residencies at one of the many Birmingham hospitals. Hmmm…I thought. But for their situations, that choice was best. Some are married with kids, and staying in Bham (a strong medical region) means that they’ll still reach their goals, but they won’t have to uproot their families or move away from their support systems (grands, etc). I did chuckle that one of the top students purposely chose to do his residency in Tuscaloosa because he wants to attend every home football game. :))
The best and the brightest will never be held back by an undergrad choice. The cream always rises to the top.
One mildly sorta-dissenting voice about UA, though. When we went to visit with D17, yes, my spouse and I were quite taken with it—but not my D17, for whom the visit cemented the fact that she didn’t want to go to a college that was nearly that size, nor one that had that much of either a Greek life or a heavy sports presence.
UA’s a great place, and the merit aid (even with the recent cutbacks) is stellar, but it’s not for everyone.
“The cold reality is that most middle class families cannot afford to send their children to colleges that equal their intellect.”
People have short memories.
One generation ago, Northeastern was where nurses and engineers went who didn’t have the stats for “better” colleges in Boston, and couldn’t afford to live in a dorm at an out of town college.
One generation ago, NYU was where the “respectable B and C+” students in the NY metro area commuted to if their families were slightly too affluent for CUNY but the kids stats were too low for Fordham, Columbia, Cooper-Union, etc.
Half a generation ago, U Chicago’s admit rate was comparable to a state flagship, Holy Cross was only for parochial school kids who couldn’t get into Notre Dame but whose parish priest told their parents they’d go to hell if they attended a non-religious school, etc.
Institutions change- some quickly (Princeton, Yale et al when they admitted women, Brown when Pembroke became a geographic area of campus but not it’s own college) and some slowly (Drexel over a decade, Northeastern over 15 years). It is very patronizing for posters to assume that sending your kid to Alabama means joining a cult.
The other issue is that if the top 5% income families struggle to make their household budgets balance with enough savings for future needs like retirement and kids’ college, the situation can get really ugly when the accelerating government debt forces an austerity economy with higher taxes and lower government spending compared to now. (Many states are already doing this to some extent, visible to forum posters in defunding of state universities, helping cause cost increases.)
Personal or household austerity budgeting may be less painful if you start working on it now, rather than when it is forced on you. And if you work on it now, you may be able to start saving for future needs.
True, for someone who only wants a small quiet college, Bama may not be a good fit. But the OP was wanting Notre Dame, a big football school. As for Greek at Bama, STEM kids either take it or leave it. Many don’t have the time. My kids did not go Greek. That said, there is an Eng’g Co-Ed Fraternity (that accepts other STEM majors, too) that provides that social aspect if desired, but is less time-demanding than a more traditional Greek house.
@cj12345 You can save money Sophomore - Senior year by sharing off campus housing and making your own food. Maybe a good 3-4k on room and board. Now would be the time to make sure you know how to cook for yourself. I would look into an instant pot. Have your mom check to make sure that when she goes full time, if your family isn’t pushed into a higher tax bracket and those extra earnings are not simply taken away in taxes and you really haven’t gained any ground. It may be that she could help your family live more defensibly by lowering other costs.
Here is a write up about the Goldwater recipients. https://www.ua.edu/news/2017/04/four-ua-students-named-goldwater-scholars-in-2017/
These kids have large groups of academically equal peers with equally stellar accomplishments; it is simply a false premise that these types of universities lack the ability to provide intellectual challenge.
The reality is, no one would have enough money. Make the college education free perhaps is the only solution. Middle class or not, there are always families cannot afford the EFC. May it be their family situation or their spending habit. It would be plain simple if a family with 200k income would live like a family with 100k income, there would be a lot in saving. The problem is most family do not have a good saving habit. Then they will find out too late the college education is expensive. The whole country has been building on the mentality of spending future money (social security, national debt, credit card debt, etc), not to mention insufficient saving.
Perhaps dangerous to my own employment to say this, what with being a college professor and all, but doing a better job of supporting non-college career paths would be a big help, because it would reduce the demand side of the equation.